I have been wanting to play a monk for a while but have not because of they are a melee class and cannot wear armor. Their natural armor does not make up for the loss of full plate/breast plate/shield. Is there a reasonable way to build/play a monk that can work out in combat at higher levels? My DM uses 25 point stat buy so this could be factored in.
click--> treantmonks guide to monks
edit:I was ninja'd, but I have a link. ;)
Wow buddy, I'll just point out now that Monks can easily out AC anyone else in the game barring only the fighter. It gets to the point that even the big ole lizard has trouble hitting them.
A couple of pointers:
Buy the arcanist several scrolls or a wand of mage armor to use on you. Since it isn't armor (it only provides an armor bonus -- not the same as being armor) you can use it and it will add 4 to your AC. You could spend skill points on Use Magic Device and do it yourself if you want.
Later Bracers of armor are your friends, and don't forget you can spend a Ki point for +4 dodge bonus to AC.
Boosting your Wisdom is always a wonderful idea since it helps you on almost all fronts, and when you have the extra Dosh so Dex boosters aren't bad either (though I would go with Strength or Con boosters first).
Remember that Items can be combined now so an amulet of Natural armor of the mighty fist is a worthy purchase.
A cloak of minor displacement is a worthy purchase as well.
Take levels of Psychic Warrior?
25 point buy (i.e. the 3e method) or 25 point (Epic) purchase (i.e. the Pathfinder method)?
I'm playing a monk right now in a game, we're level 10, and my AC isn't bad.
Mind you, it is 25 point Epic purchase, and the guys who play/played the fighters aren't too experienced in optimising character or not too interested in getting AC real high.
Still, my regular AC is about the same as the party fighter's. The cleric has better AC, but she gets to wear heavy armour and a shield.
When I use Ki power to boost my AC (and maybe even use Combat Expertise), my AC is the best in the party unless I remember things incorrectly.
Wis is this character's best stat, but Dex is not number two (Str is higher, though Dex follows right behind).
And the party conjurer is creating a monk's robe for me, which will make things even better.
There are a lot of ways to boost AC, Rings of Protection, Rings of Deflection, Bracers of armor, have a wizard or artificer craft a amulet that casts the shield spell a couple times a day. Also look for item that increase your Dexterity or dodge.
I would like to point out that at some point though AC really becomes meaningless and the best defense is a good offense. The thing that makes a monk truly powerful is his speed.
I would recommend the following items.
Claws of the Puma (Magic Item Compendium)
These allow you to do a full attack action if you charge (thus allowing you to Flurry right away)
Belt of Battle
This will give you extra actions during a fight to help you get an edge
Potions of enlargement or and item that lets you cast that spell on the fly. The base damage of a Monks attacks are tied directly to his size. Also being a large Monk to begin with is a good way to go with this option.
You also might want to take a dip of the Prestige class Fist of the Forest which is an awesome way to get your unarmed damage up even further.
Taking a few dips in Drunken Master allows you to use improvised weapons as Monk weapons which the damage stacks with your unarmed damage. My favorite is to do this with a wet towel.
There is also a feat called heroic surge I think from the Dragonlance campaign that allows you extra attack or move actions once a day per 4 levels and only once per turn, but this allows you to move in before your full action and then make a flurry attack.
So get in and kill your target before they even have a chance to hit you for that is the best AC you will ever have.
Since nobody else mentioned most of this yet, here's my $0.02...
1. The Dodge feat.
2. I think there's a feat that gives +4AC against attacks of opportunity, you might want that.
3. Ring of Protection
4. Ioun Stone that grants +1AC
5. Carry a defending monk weapon, like a +2 Defending Kama. You can still take all of your flurry attacks with headbutts, kicks, elbows, etc, apply your Amulet of Mighty Fists bonus to those attacks, but get the Kama's bonus added to your AC. I'm pretty sure that two such weapons wouldn't stack in terms of their bonuses to your AC, but ask your DM how he'd rule on that.
6. Be invisible a lot.
7. trip, disarm, stun, and blind them a lot.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
And another thing is don't play the monk as a front line fighter, but as a mobile skirmisher. I'm not saying use spring attack all the time, since that would make your flurry ineffective, but don't be the guy who wins initiative and charges the enemy and gets surrounded. Let the fighter or barbarian do that, then circle around and attack from the side/rear, etc. If your AC isn't as high as the fighter's that's fine if you are attacked by 1/2 as many foes.
FrinkiacVII makes a good point about being invisible but if you can eventually afford it get your hands on a ring of Greater Invisibility because once you attack you don't loose your invisibility and your target is denied their Dex.
Joelf847 is correct as well don't be a front lineman unless you have levels of fighter, but instead in combo with invisibility take a dash of rogue and get fast stealth. This way you can move unseen and unheard a full speed which for a monk rocks.
Yeah if you are going to charge then use stunning fist so you don't get bashed back, otherwise you are generally better off positioning yourself so something charges you. As odd as this sounds it means you only eat one attack and get to full attack in return, instead of your monk only getting one attack and the monster getting to full attack you.
It gets to the point that even the big ole lizard has trouble hitting them.
No I don't!
They're like popcorn shrimp to you pinkies - I eat em by the handful, sometimes with dipping sauce (squished peasants I find between my armored toes).
I still prefer crunchy knights though; they usually have more meat on their bones than those stringy monks.
It gets to the point that even the big ole lizard has trouble hitting them.No I don't!
They're like popcorn shrimp to you pinkies - I eat em by the handful, sometimes with dipping sauce (squished peasants I find between my armored toes).
I still prefer crunchy knights though; they usually have more meat on their bones than those stringy monks.
Do you burninate the countryside? Burninate the peasants?
Plus, it's not like you're spending a lot of money on armor or weapons. Go ahead and get that ring of protection.
The party I'm in right now has a monk. We're level 12, his AC is in the high 30s / low 40s when he goes full defense. The party as a whole is level + 20 in our ACs. The point being don't sweat the AC, the monk's vulnerabilities are in other areas.
I look at these posts mentioning ACs in the high 20s at level 10 and wonder if I'm a munchkin for having an Alchemist with an AC of 32 at level 5...
I look at these posts mentioning ACs in the high 20s at level 10 and wonder if I'm a munchkin for having an Alchemist with an AC of 32 at level 5...
Munchkin would be in the details.
My Level 1 human fighter has an AC of 49 is munchkiny because wealth by level dictates my level 1 fighter shouldn't have this gear.
While Fighting Defensively and wearing
+5 full plate
+5 amulet of natural armor
+5 tower shield
+5 ring of protection
10 + 14 armor + 1 dex + 4 dodge + 10 shield + 5 natural + 5 deflection = 49 AC (20 touch, 44 flat footed)
Feats
Combat Expertise +1 dodge
dodge +1 dodge
shield focus +1 shield
_____________________________________________________________
My level 1 human fighter has an AC of 28. This AC with no magic items at level 1 is not so munchkiny, but your GM still would have the right to sack tap you with a sock full of quarters for building this character.
While fighting Defensively and wearing
breastplate
tower shield
10 + 6 armor + 3 dex + 4 dodge + 5 shield = 28 (17 touch, 21 flat foot)
|
|
I look at these posts mentioning ACs in the high 20s at level 10 and wonder if I'm a munchkin for having an Alchemist with an AC of 32 at level 5...Munchkin would be in the details.
My Level 1 human fighter has an AC of 49 is munchkiny because wealth by level dictates my level 1 fighter shouldn't have this gear.
** spoiler omitted **
My level 1 human fighter has an AC of 28. This AC with no magic items at level 1 is not so munchkiny, but your GM still would have the right to sack tap you with a sock full of quarters for building this character.** spoiler omitted **
That tower shield gives a max dex of 2, leaving you with an AC of 27, and only when in full defense. Normally AC 23 with a massive armor check penalty. All it takes is one balance check and all hell breaks loose for the character, which seems fair to me.
Also, the gear you have would only be valid if you either rolled well or took a wealthy background trait. On average result (or even good result) you would be unable to afford that gear. This would leave you another point down on AC for 22. You could make up for that a bit with dodge.Lastly, that tower shield imposes a penalty to attack rolls, making that AC pretty useless when you can't get enemies to attack you instead of the squishy guy one square over.
Have fun playing an immobile brick ;)
I look at these posts mentioning ACs in the high 20s at level 10 and wonder if I'm a munchkin for having an Alchemist with an AC of 32 at level 5...Munchkin would be in the details.
My Level 1 human fighter has an AC of 49 is munchkiny because wealth by level dictates my level 1 fighter shouldn't have this gear.
** spoiler omitted **
My level 1 human fighter has an AC of 28. This AC with no magic items at level 1 is not so munchkiny, but your GM still would have the right to sack tap you with a sock full of quarters for building this character.** spoiler omitted **
The character is an elf with 18 Dex (22 when using his mutagen)-6- and enough Str to wear his gear. He has +2 Mithril Chainmail -6-, a +2 Heavy Steel Shield (with the shield proficiency feat) -4-, 4 natural armor (2 from mutagen, 2 from a Barkskin spell) -4-, a Ring of Deflection +1 -1-, and the Dodge feat -1-, for a total of 32 AC, 36 if he was going to go full defense, so 18 touch and 25 flat-footed.
The character is an elf with 18 Dex (22 when using his mutagen)-6- and enough Str to wear his gear. He has +2 Mithril Chainmail -6-, a +2 Heavy Steel Shield (with the shield proficiency feat) -4-, 4 natural armor (2 from mutagen, 2 from a Barkskin spell) -4-, a Ring of Deflection +1 -1-, and the Dodge feat -1-, for a total of 32 AC, 36 if he was going to go full defense, so 18 touch and 25 flat-footed.
+2 Mithral Chainmail at level 5. Generous DM. Never been a fan of wealth by level, myself. 'Course I guess I tend to go the other way with it...
Zo
Eh, even if you use a 15-point buy, get Dex and Wis to 16 each (drop Strength and Charisma, perhaps to 10 but no lower, keep Con and Int to 12 at least) that gives you an AC of 16 at 1st level, not bad for the guy in the Monk's Habbit.
Items I love getting for Monks:
Ring of Invisibility/Greater Invisibility
Necklace of Natural Armor and Mighty Fists (max out the Natural Armor, then slap +3 enchantment and Holy enchantment, or Disruption and an Elemental damage type if going up against Undead often).
Bracers of Armor and Bracelet of Friends (not only can you give yourself up to a +8 force-field to armor (meaning ethereal attacks suck against you!) but you can, in a pinch, run away from a deadly enemy and summon all your friends once out of dodge. Furthermore, the bracers cannot have any ability that has a 'flat GP amount', such as Glamered, Slick or Energy Resistance, which is annoying, but you can slap Fortification or Blinding to them in a pinch.
Defending Weapons (anything you can wield) it's often worth it to get yourself a weapon, enchant it to +5 and get the Defending enchantment on it and use it as an effective shield, since you can beat the stuffing out of demi-gods with your forehead if need be. A small, light weapon like the Sai or Kama is nominally best suited for this.
Magical Shuriken. I am surprised nobody has mentioned these. Get shuriken that, when striking a target, turn into Stirges or explode with fire or inflict a Slow effect on the target. They're cheap and you can flurry them. Sling a few of these around, then run away and repeat. It's oddly effective for such low damage weapons, I swear.
Robe of Monk coupled with a Cloak of Resistance and a Robe of Eyes is just about unstoppable as she cannot be flanked and retains her dex to AC even when flat-footed, meaning the Monk cannot lose their armor bonus. Just .... be wary of Medusa and Magic Symbols.
I would drop Int instead of strength honestly. AC isn't really the problem for the monk -- the problem is getting enough "umpf" behind the blows to matter.
Eh, I'm a Skills Junkie, don't mind me.
Also, Skill Points are not applied retroactively, more's the pity, wherein increasing the other scores after creation doesn't really penalise a character, PC or NPC, in the same ways that starting with a low Int does.
Furthermore, Monks have some great skills, but like the Cleric and the Fighter, not nearly enough skills to go around and get all of them. Dropping in a 12 Intelligence and your favoured class bonus to Skills nets the Monk 2 additional skill-ranks that can go to Climb and Swim, to be able to deal with nearly any environment, Sense Motive and Intimidate to be able to 'read' enemies in combat and intimidate them into submission, the Knowledge (History) and (Religion) to compensate for a *Druid healer's lack of aforementioned skills or for flavour reasons, so on and so forth, skills normally ignored for the Acrobatics/Perception/Stealth/something else most Monks end up rolling with.
*Please note I am not bashing Druids here, I love the Class, but it does make sense a Druid would have little use for History Lessons or boring sermons. The world is their temple and their altar, and all they need to know can be heard by listening to the Trees, the Animals, the Rivers, the Storm and the Mountains.
Eh, I'm a Skills Junkie, don't mind me.
Also, Skill Points are not applied retroactively, more's the pity, wherein increasing the other scores after creation doesn't really penalise a character, PC or NPC, in the same ways that starting with a low Int does.
Then you'll be happy to know that they are indeed applied retroactively.
Then you'll be happy to know that they are indeed applied retroactively.
*has an explosive nerd-gasm*
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then you'll be happy to know that they are indeed applied retroactively.
*has an explosive nerd-gasm*
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I....uh........hmm.
....cigarette?
I....uh........hmm.
....cigarette?
*produces a Scroll of Wish, stuffs it with dried Striped Toadstool and Tobacco grown in Elysium and sets one end of the Scroll-cum-Cigar on fire, taking a deep draught then explodes into coughing fits*
Somebody get me a lotto ticket, every scrap of Good Karma has decided to visit me today.
**Kids ... don't smoke. It's not worth it, no matter what the 'cool kids' say or tell you to do. Horrible habit, your mouth tastes like crap to potential partners, your breath can knock out a dog and don't get me started on lung, throat or any of the numerous and generally slow, agonizing and humiliating cancers that will more often than not kill you.**
Take levels of Psychic Warrior?
Yes, that is the best combo ever, using inertial armour and force screen together gives you +8 on AC as is, then you can add metaphysical weapon to boost damage and hit chances. When you get to 4th level psywar taking hustle lets you move and full-attack, and with the feats Monk Training (Psychic Warrior) and Tashalatora you can stack your levels for unarmed damage and flurry of blows.