allright so theres been some talk of rangers at my local gaming store. So naturally I decided to be evil :) and make a better range ranger, and looking through feats I saw all the goodies and figure I'll shoot multiple arrows at my enemies. Which naturally made me think of cleave. Now I know rapid shot and all that is meant for range multiple shot's but looking at the ruling of cleave I see nothing that says an arrow can't cleave into the next guy, as long as there adjacent and withing reach... and 100 ft range they should be.
Cleave (Combat)
You can strike two adjacent foes with a single swing.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single
attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within
reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make
an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus)
against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within
reach. You can only make one additional attack per round
with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty
to your Armor Class until your next turn.besides the describtion theres nothing that even remotely means melee... am i just being evil or is there something i'm missing?
The description states "against a foe within reach." So that would prevent you from using it at range with a bow.
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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---final#TOC-Big-And-Li ttle-Creatures-In-Combat
"Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more."
bows don't have reach, they have range, you dont threaten adjacent squares with a ranged weapon
"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity."
You can always do a Pierce feat that allows you to hit several enemies with one shot. I'd require them to be in a straight line and that the secondary target is the next one in line.
Actually, I think there's stuff like that out there. You just might have to update it to be analogous to PF cleave (i.e. standard action)
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You can always do a Pierce feat that allows you to hit several enemies with one shot. I'd require them to be in a straight line and that the secondary target is the next one in line.
Actually, I think there's stuff like that out there. You just might have to update it to be analogous to PF cleave (i.e. standard action)
check PH2, it had a bab 10 pre req i think, but you got to hit everyone in a 60' line IIRC
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ah not worried about it really, this is mainly for society play, my freinds and i only really play that to come up with the most broken things possible. hence y i play a wizard barbarian half orc, so i can throw my heavy orc axes at my enemy and get them back free :)
That's about as far from "broken thing" as you can get. :)
not when i'm level 3 casting enlarge person and bulls strength same round, can't do it too much but from time to time, i do
That's nothing. All my 1st-level characters cast 5 9th-level spells as a free action per round. And they cast "Global Dominate Monster" each time!
I thought reach was an inherent part of the creature/character, and not the weapon (though a weapon can have a dramatic effect on your reach).
As such, I believe that you COULD use cleave with a ranged attack provided both targets are within your reach (5 feet for most medium creatures). Note though, that this requires that you ignore the FLAVOR text that talks about "swinging" your weapon.
In 3.5 there was a feat that let you bounce a ranged attack off a target and hit an adjacent target. Ricochet shot or something.
Cleave
-Requires 13 strength(primary melee stat)
-Requires Power attack(melee only feat)
-Specifically say reach not range
Based on this I would say that Cleave is meant to work with melee attacks only.
I thought reach was an inherent part of the creature/character, and not the weapon (though a weapon can have a dramatic effect on your reach).
Yes and you could cleave with your hands, however the bow has zero reach, you can not cleave with it...you could use it as an improvised weapon and then give it your reach however.
It is very simple Reach= melee attack, while Range = ranged attack.
The bow has no reach.