Thanks for taking the time to look at this. Here's my issue.
I'm currently in a Pathfinder group running an adventure path that we're now a couple of books and several months of sporadic gaming into. I have had a regular group of gamers I play with for a LONG time, but recently a couple of them went on hiatus, so we started a new group. This group started out with a group of five: 4 players and the GM. Four of us work together @ the same place, and the fifth is a long-time buddy of mine I've been RPG'ing with for 10+ years. We decided to pick up another player to even out the group for a party of five. So, we decided to ask another guy we work with to join us (New Guy #1), as he'd expressed interest in playing and had similar tastes, etc. (dragons all over his desk, paints warhammer minis, etc etc) He said that he'd love to and that he'd played before but not in a few years or so. (no biggie)
So, over the course of the last few months we've been playing, things got kind of weird. First off, the new guy came and for the first session or two got into it pretty good. By the fifth month, he'd missed a couple of sessions, but he'd also gone out and dropped $100 on a core rulebook, bestiary, etc. But when it came to his turn on at the table, he would often not know the rules, have to take five minutes to get the layout of the combat, cast spells he didn't have memorized (as we found out later), and the like. Between turns, he'd have his laptop open (for Hero Lab supposedly) and was on Facebook, YouTube, etc.
(Bear with me, I know this is lengthy.)
Now, one night we're playing @ work after hours (conference rooms with projector, whiteboards, and bigass tables ROCK) and another guy we work with comes in and asks if he can watch, as he's never seen role playing games before. So we're all good with that, but I go out for a smoke break at one point and when I come back 10 minutes later , New Guy #2 is making a character to play! Somehow, someone invited him to sit in, they whipped him out a character and everything was on the roll. Now our group has 7 people! I don't want to be the d-bag in the room, so I just go with it, but the game slows to a crawl at this point. New Guy # 2 however, quickly picks up the game faster in ONE NIGHT than New Guy #1 did in the prior six months.
Now, 4 sessions later, our group is up to EIGHT people including the GM! Our long-time buddy is off his hiatus, and we'd like him back in the group. By this time, we've come to discover that NG#1 isn't really putting his all into the game, learning the rules, etc. He's also getting a little annoying. NG#2 keeps showing up for sessions, and puts more effort into it than NG#1 by a long shot, but he's still a total n00b, we're not sure of his commitment to the group or the game, and he's kind of an ass @ work, so we're not sure how long he'll be cool to play with.
So now, we're faced with a dilemma. We would like to trim our group back to the original , taking out NG#1 and 2. However, dilemmas:
1) NG#1 spent $100+ on RPG stuff to play with us
2) NG#1 isn't a douche or anything, he just doesn't click with our group well
3) NG#1 and 2 keep talking about how much they like playing
4) We work with both of the guys we are thinking of cutting out
5) We want to bring back Hiatus Player to the group
6) We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings (see #4)
7) Group size is KILLING the game to the point where a couple of the core players are thinking of quitting due to size
8) We don't have enough free time to run 2 groups to fit everyone
9) We introduced them to the game and now feel like we're taking it away
10) How do you tell someone 'It's not us... it's you.'
Anyone else experienced an issue like this? It's killing me! I'd love to be able to make everyone happy and leave no hurt feelings, but it's gotten out of hand. With the exception of the two NG's , everyone else at the table has been playing for years and years as well, so when it's the core group, everything just *clicks* into place. Our last two sessions have been chaos.
Thanks for taking the time to look at this. Here's my issue.
I'm currently in a Pathfinder group running an adventure path that we're now a couple of books and several months of sporadic gaming into. I have had a regular group of gamers I play with for a LONG time, but recently a couple of them went on hiatus, so we started a new group. This group started out with a group of five: 4 players and the GM. Four of us work together @ the same place, and the fifth is a long-time buddy of mine I've been RPG'ing with for 10+ years. We decided to pick up another player to even out the group for a party of five. So, we decided to ask another guy we work with to join us (New Guy #1), as he'd expressed interest in playing and had similar tastes, etc. (dragons all over his desk, paints warhammer minis, etc etc) He said that he'd love to and that he'd played before but not in a few years or so. (no biggie)
So, over the course of the last few months we've been playing, things got kind of weird. First off, the new guy came and for the first session or two got into it pretty good. By the fifth month, he'd missed a couple of sessions, but he'd also gone out and dropped $100 on a core rulebook, bestiary, etc. But when it came to his turn on at the table, he would often not know the rules, have to take five minutes to get the layout of the combat, cast spells he didn't have memorized (as we found out later), and the like. Between turns, he'd have his laptop open (for Hero Lab supposedly) and was on Facebook, YouTube, etc.
(Bear with me, I know this is lengthy.)
Now, one night we're playing @ work after hours (conference rooms with projector, whiteboards, and bigass tables ROCK) and another guy we work with comes in and asks if he can watch, as he's never seen role playing games before. So we're all good with that, but I go out for a smoke break at one point and when I come back 10 minutes later , New Guy #2 is making a character to play! Somehow, someone invited him to sit in, they whipped him out a character and...
There's really no nice way to deal with this. I suggest having the DM impose time limts on actions: 30 seconds to decide what to do, no more than 60-120 seconds depending on how complicated they are to carry out, or your turn is lost. You also seem to be indicating that he's cheating....catch him in the act, and the blame is shifted off of you....
I would talk to the guy that is being a problem and lay it out for him. He might get mad and storm off, well problem solved, he may get it and problem solved.
As for to many people at the table (I wish i had the problem) talk to the whole group and maybe you could run 2 game at once. Ask one of the player to step up to GM and you both could work on a story the interweaves a littl, I have always wanted to do that but non of my player know the rules that well, I have been playing for 20 years now (wow I am old I should grow up soon) but my player are all pretty new to the game so I understand the guy not being ready to play or knowing the rules, if take 6 hours some time to run 2 encounter with my players right now but they are getting there.
Finely quit smoking that way you will not leave the room plus less chance of cancer.
With a large group, steps must be taken to simplify the game. This almost always means streamlining combat. Here's what I've done with large groups:
1. Get rid of AoO.
2. Use Trailblazer's method for iterative attacks. Short version: no matter your BAB, iterative attacks cap at two. TWF works differently as well.
3. Chunk initiatives. Everyone with an initiative higher than the bad guys goes in whatever order they want. Then the bad guys go. Then everyone else.
4. When your turn comes around, you must act immediately. You've sat through six other turns plus bad guys. That's enough time to formulate a plan.
+1 on quit smoking
+2
That's clearly what got you into this mess. O.o
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Yeah, this is a really tough one; there is no perfect solution.
Lite up a cigarette and take your mind off your problem for a while.
Here's my take:
1) There's nothing inherintly wrong with what New#2 is doing. Lots of Players don't master the rules; lots of Players don't care to spend the time to learn the rules -- that's not what's fun to them. What's fun for them (us) is the social aspect, the campaign fluff, their PC background -- not interested in crunch at all.
For this Player, the DM should talk seperately with him. Let him know that, especially now that the group is large, it's important that the game moves as efficiently as possible -- and he's hindering smooth play. Ask him to run a PC that is not so complicated. Wizards are the hardest class to run. Barbarians, high level Sorcerers & Clerics, and Bards are all difficult to run. Tell him to let Players who enjoy taking the time to really get into the rules to run those PCs.
Let him run a 3.5 Warlock. Or a Monk. Or a Fighter and you (or another Player) help him pick his Feats -- Feats not about maximizing the PC but making the running of the PC easy (few choices -- no Cleave, for example, improved initiative instead)
2) start looking at Threads that give advice on running larger groups. There's several little things that big groups do that speed things up.
Maybe, like many large groups, you'll decide not to roll initiative. The Player sitting to the DM's left goes first; the next guy goes after and you just go clockwise around the table.
Additionally, you may ask people to have their action ready before their turn in initiative -- you could begin every turn by saying, "John, you're up -- Bob, you go after John" and then, "Bob, you're up -- Mary, you go after Bob."
Outside of combat you may announce the magic dice bag, whoever holds the magic dice bag gets to talk to the NPCs -- if a Player isn't holding the magic dice bag, he can't talk.
The DM needs to be a little more cognizent of the session and its pace in larger groups. And a little more observant of Players' reactions to each other.
There are ways to get the game better. Good luck.
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And don't complain, you have a problem that lots of groups Wish they had -- too many good Players.
Tough situation - if you "cut" players, then work with them everyday things will be weird.
The best thing I could suggest would be to force the game to go the way you want it. If they can't hang, they either have to step up their game, or they will get left behind.
You have 30 seconds to announce your action - then skipped.
Simple initative so everyone knows when their turn is up. Sounds like you have the projectors and everything to make that work.
The lower the level, the faster things will probably go.
All numbers, spells, etc. need to be figured out in advance.
No Laptops, cell phones, texting, newspapers, etc. at the table.
No cohorts, pets, familiars, etc.
If you want to do a combat maneuver, you better be open to that page, and have it figured out in advanced.
Limit or drop summon spells, haste (oh the irony!), and spells like entangle, web, black tentacles, spike stone, should probably be dropped as well.
Maybe the solution isn't to cut players but auctually get more! That way there could be an into group (new guys) and advanced (you and the OG players). Everyone plays!
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More:
Casters should have their spell rules written next to their spells:
+} Magic Missile .................3d4+3
+} Deep Slumber.................10 HD max, Will DC 17
+} Web..........................20' area; Ref DC 17, page #
+} Alter Self...................any medium humanoid, 5 minutes
+} Rope Trick...................8 people fit, can't be seen, 5 hours
Barbarians and Rangers should have two sets of stats:
Brb: (No Rage) HP= 90 AC 25 attack +12/+7 1d10+4
(Rage) HP= 106 AC 23 attack +14/+9 1d10+8
Ran: (Vs Favored Enemy and Not vs Favored Enemy)
No one gets an AoO
There are NO Immediate Actions.
No Familiars or Animal Companions.
Summoners MUST have a "PC" sheet for the Outsider stated out before play.
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I agree with the rest. There is no easy way to do this. At this point your best bet is to do things to speed up play. Finally you could invite old player back and ask him/her to co DM with you. Give him/her half the monsters to run and to help the players speed up their turns. That should take care of a few problems. It speeds up the game, old player can help teach the new guys and it lets you let old player back into the group.
Personally that's how I would handle it.