Hi folks, new to the boards and Pathfinder.
I haven't played in a while and was getting the itch so I called the old group. They converted to Pathfinder and reported that they love it.
I downloaded the Rulebook but have only gotten half of it printed.
I was wondering about what has been changed between the two games. So far I only see small adjustments to classes/races. I like what I see so far. (except the point buy for stats, seem a little low)
If I get a game going, I'll probably have to GM. Is there any major stumbling block I need to study on??
Thanks in advance...
Some of the changes:
Undead are no longer immune to crits and sneak attacks. I believe Constructs are likewise now vulnerable, but not Oozes.
Favored Class: Every character gets to choose a favored class. For every level of this class they take, they get either an extra skill point or an extra hit point.
Clerics and Paladins get an ability called Channel Positive Energy, which lets them do an AoE to either heal those around them or damage undead.
Hi folks, new to the boards and Pathfinder.
I haven't played in a while and was getting the itch so I called the old group. They converted to Pathfinder and reported that they love it.
I downloaded the Rulebook but have only gotten half of it printed.
I was wondering about what has been changed between the two games. So far I only see small adjustments to classes/races. I like what I see so far. (except the point buy for stats, seem a little low)
If I get a game going, I'll probably have to GM. Is there any major stumbling block I need to study on??
Thanks in advance...
Grab this.
For the most part, characters are a bit more powerful, combat maneuvers have been cleaned-up, and things have been slightly re-balanced.
BTW, buy the hardback if at all possible. It's beautiful, well-made, and probably mor economical than trying to print the PDF.
You can also go HERE and download the conversion guide for free. It will give you some of the high level basics from 3.5 games.
As stated the big ones are CMD/CMB, skills, classes, races, Polymorh/Shapechange magic, Armor AC, feats, Crits/sneak attack, and poison/disease.
You can also go HERE and download the conversion guide for free. It will give you some of the high level basics from 3.5 games.
As stated the big ones are CMD/CMB, skills, classes, races, Polymorh/Shapechange magic, Armor AC, feats, Crits/sneak attack, and poison/disease.
Ninja'ed, fool! ;-)
Ninja'ed, fool! ;-)
I was going to make the ninja comment... but you ninja'd that!
Having both played and DMed 3.5 and Pathfinder now, the fact is they're still very much compatible with each other. The major changes are in the minor details, and there are a lot of them there, but for the most part it's still the same good old game. As a DM you can pretty much use the same monsters from 3.5 if you still have those books. Personally, I didn't let anyone use the 3.5 splat books in my campaign, but I don't think it would have been impossible, just a pain in the axe.
I like that the Wizard no longer needs a crossbow to have a reliable ranged attack at level 1. Level-0 spells are now unlimited use, meaning you can cast Acid Splash all day long now if you want to. For this reason they changed Cure Minor Wounds to Stabilize. It doesn't restore any hit points, but it does stabilize a dying character, and it's ranged now, so you don't need to touch the guy. On the opposite side of the coin, Inflict Minor Wounds was changed to "Bleed" which simply causes a target at negative hit points to resume dying (assuming he's been stabilized already).
They also improved some of the Cleric's domain spells. They can get Fireball now, and a lot of the domain options grant a special ability (at level 1) which gives a short ranged attack that does 1d6 +(half your Cleric level) damage, usable a few times per day.
The Paladin is a wrecking ball against any evil dragon, outsider, or undead now, and has no need for Wisdom as his spells are now Charisma-based, as are all of his other class abilities.
Rogues are able to dish out pretty impressive amounts of Sneak Attack damage while two-weapon fighting now since their Sneak Attack applies to any and every attack they get a as long as they have the target flanked, flat-footed, or denied Dex bonus to AC. A lot of stuff that used to be immune to sneak attack/critical hits no longer is.
Some of the magic items have been revamped for the better. For example, all the items that can raise your Strength, Dex, and/or Con are belts. All the items that can raise your Int, Wis, and/or Cha are headbands. The staff now gets a maximum of 10 charges but can be recharged by casting a spell into it.
feat progression has changed, 1st lvl and every 2 levels after, new feats, also feats, spells, (PrC)classes, races have had an overhaul.
Some skills have been bunched together, skill system works slightly easier following a simple class and cross class system (+3 for any skill that is a class skill, that is about it).
introduction of CMB and CMB making combat system run slightly smoother when you got used to it (for the purpose of special maneuvers).
Some small changes in armor / weapons / materials / magical items and the occasional rule change.
Some changes on the monster type front, constructs, plants and undead being affected by sneak attack and critical hits now (by default at least). Otherwise some fairly minor changes :
- undead get charisma as bonus hp (like con)
- some changes in save progression for creature types
- giants being a subtype of humanoid now
- some changes in guidelines for CR of encounters
think I got most covered with that...
Rogues are able to dish out pretty impressive amounts of Sneak Attack damage while two-weapon fighting now since their Sneak Attack applies to any and every attack they get a as long as they have the target flanked, flat-footed, or denied Dex bonus to AC.
That's not a change. That's a same. :)
Summaries of "what's different" are a little dangerous, I think, because there are a ton of very small changes that add up to a surprisingly different game, and some of them look at first as though they change things one way but turn out to change them in quite another. CMB is one example - because the base value of CMB goes up much slower than grapple modifiers used to (especially in terms of the bonuses from the Improved [Maneuver] feats), many people think that its harder to pull off maneuvers in Pathfinder than it was in 3.5. The truth is, though, that since all attack bonuses apply to CMB checks, it's far, far easier to get high CMB modifiers for a character that wishes to do so, making maneuvers a much more potent option for a longer period of time.
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You guys seem to be forgetting what I feel to be the biggest and most impactful change to the system.
Instead of dying at -10 you die at Negative whatever your con modifier is. This little thing actually ended up catching my group blindsided as you HAVE to be more careful with your martial characters now as you cant assume (even at low levels) that you will just get knocked unconscious first and be neutralized as a threat.
You guys seem to be forgetting what I feel to be the biggest and most impactful change to the system.
Instead of dying at -10 you die at Negative whatever your con modifier is. This little thing actually ended up catching my group blindsided as you HAVE to be more careful with your martial characters now as you cant assume (even at low levels) that you will just get knocked unconscious first and be neutralized as a threat.
Actually, according to pg. 190 (Core Rulebook) you die at negative your constitution score.
Turning undead is no longer a class ability for clerics, but a feat.
Crafting magic items no longer costs XP. Some item crafting feats are easier to get (Forge Ring was a 12th L feat under 3.x, but is 7th L under the PFRPG.)
just for reference, in addition to the big changes there are lots of little ones. There was a thread about this a ways back here
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Actually, according to pg. 190 (Core Rulebook) you die at negative your constitution score.You guys seem to be forgetting what I feel to be the biggest and most impactful change to the system.
Instead of dying at -10 you die at Negative whatever your con modifier is. This little thing actually ended up catching my group blindsided as you HAVE to be more careful with your martial characters now as you cant assume (even at low levels) that you will just get knocked unconscious first and be neutralized as a threat.
/checks the page
Ahhh! That makes sense now! Ok, well lets pretend this whole thing never happened shall we?
*sneaks out the back door*
Actually, according to pg. 190 (Core Rulebook) you die at negative your constitution score.You guys seem to be forgetting what I feel to be the biggest and most impactful change to the system.
Instead of dying at -10 you die at Negative whatever your con modifier is. This little thing actually ended up catching my group blindsided as you HAVE to be more careful with your martial characters now as you cant assume (even at low levels) that you will just get knocked unconscious first and be neutralized as a threat.
/checks the page
Ahhh! That makes sense now! Ok, well lets pretend this whole thing never happened shall we?
*sneaks out the back door*
*pretends this whole thing never happened*. . . what were we talking about? ;)
All good stuff..thanks.
One specific question about Sorcerers and thier blood line?
The bloodline power at 1st level, for example, Aberrants Acidic Ray, (Hmm...sounds like a metal band) the damage is 1d6 +1 per 2 levels. Does that mean 2d6 at 3, 3d6 at 5 or does it just multiply the additional damage?? Seems a bit overpowered at 10d6 at 20th but I havent played yet so I am just not sure.
Creative Director
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All good stuff..thanks.
One specific question about Sorcerers and thier blood line?
The bloodline power at 1st level, for example, Aberrants Acidic Ray, (Hmm...sounds like a metal band) the damage is 1d6 +1 per 2 levels. Does that mean 2d6 at 3, 3d6 at 5 or does it just multiply the additional damage?? Seems a bit overpowered at 10d6 at 20th but I havent played yet so I am just not sure.
Nope; it means 1d6+1 at 1st and 2nd level. 1d6+2 at 3rd and 4th level. 1d6+3 at 4th and 6th level. And so on.
It's a pretty good damage option at lower level, but it's mostly meant as a backup attack at high level.
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All good stuff..thanks.
One specific question about Sorcerers and thier blood line?
The bloodline power at 1st level, for example, Aberrants Acidic Ray, (Hmm...sounds like a metal band) the damage is 1d6 +1 per 2 levels. Does that mean 2d6 at 3, 3d6 at 5 or does it just multiply the additional damage?? Seems a bit overpowered at 10d6 at 20th but I havent played yet so I am just not sure.
It means 1d6, plus 1 point per 2 levels. 1d6+1 at 2nd level, 1d6+2 at 4th level, etc., up to 1d6+10 at 20th level.
You guys seem to be forgetting what I feel to be the biggest and most impactful change to the system.
Instead of dying at -10 you die at Negative whatever your con modifier is. This little thing actually ended up catching my group blindsided as you HAVE to be more careful with your martial characters now as you cant assume (even at low levels) that you will just get knocked unconscious first and be neutralized as a threat.
*pretends it never happened*
The skill system is only a billion times better than before. Besides Jump ( a strength skill ) having been folded into Acrobatics ( a dexterity skill ), but that's the only bad thing about skills.
The classes are better than before. Funnily enough, that results in the opponents with class levels also being a much bigger threat, with results like an NPC from 3.5 to Pathfinder suddenly doubling in HP. Which makes encounters more fun because of the challenge.
The most important thing, to me, is to read the spells/feats before you use them. Don't assume that you know how they work as many have small but significant changes. Treat it the way you would a completely new system. Read everything.
I like what I see so far. (except the point buy for stats, seem a little low)
Point buy in Pathfinder RPG starts at baseline 10, instead of baseline 8 as in 3.5. So, a PRPG point buy of 15 is actually equal to a 3.5 point buy of 25.
Wellcome R-Hero!
No XP costs.
No XP penalties when multiclasing - at all. All classes can nu multiclass freely :-)
Cleric lost heavy armor prof.
Bards can now be lawful. So you can play a Paldin/Bard :-)
Hmmm. A lot of good things, but at the top of my list.
1. Feats, such as cleave, now suck
2. Barbarians have now gone from damage dealers to meat shields, which is horrible considering their low AC. So they about suck now.
3. Fighters are the gods of general melee damage.
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From what I have read it is probably a better system overall, though I was frustrated with how they nerfed Improved Trip and Improved Disarm etc (I would actually prefer playing certan fighters in 3.5 than PF).
Don't assume that you know how they work as many have small but significant changes. Treat it the way you would a completely new system. Read everything.
But despite me seeing PF as on the whole being a better system than 3.5 it is for this reason that I haven't bothered getting into PF - I really can't be arsed to read everything and remember all the little changes just to play a game that is very similar to one I already know and own - I'd rather spend the time reading other RPGs that offer me something different (D&D 4e, Legends of Anglerre, Doctor Who, Wilderness of Mirrors etc).
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Hmmm. A lot of good things, but at the top of my list.
1. Feats, such as cleave, now suck
2. Barbarians have now gone from damage dealers to meat shields, which is horrible considering their low AC. So they about suck now.
3. Fighters are the gods of general melee damage.
i have to jump in a defend barbarians here. barbarians still do pretty good damage, fighters have just gotten better at it. rage is change to a number of rounds per day instead of times per day. i like this better because you can rage for a little bit and then save the rest if you need to. no more wasting a rage per day on something that dies in the first round. barbarians now get rage powers at ever even barbarian level. there are 2 rage powers that fix the AC problem by 6th level and make it higher than your normal AC every 6 levels of barbarian you have. and more rage powers to increase your DR as you level up. some of the other rage powers aren't that great but there are definitely some good ones. barbarians definitely got better imo.
another thing to note about classes. paladins and monks no longer have that pesky sentence that says if they took a level in anything other than paladin or monk, they can no longer level as a paladin or monk. so now you can multiclass paladin/monk and smite(which is freaking awesome now) punch things to death.
all the classes got better, and there are no more d4 HD classes. i strongly suggest that you get the book if you can.
From what I have read it is probably a better system overall, though I was frustrated with how they nerfed Improved Trip and Improved Disarm etc (I would actually prefer playing certan fighters in 3.5 than PF).
Don't assume that you know how they work as many have small but significant changes. Treat it the way you would a completely new system. Read everything.But despite me seeing PF as on the whole being a better system than 3.5 it is for this reason that I haven't bothered getting into PF - I really can't be arsed to read everything and remember all the little changes just to play a game that is very similar to one I already know and own - I'd rather spend the time reading other RPGs that offer me something different (D&D 4e, Legends of Anglerre, Doctor Who, Wilderness of Mirrors etc).
*shrug* Your loss.
But just out of curiosity, if you're not "into PF," why are you here?
Hmmm. A lot of good things, but at the top of my list.
1. Feats, such as cleave, now suck
2. Barbarians have now gone from damage dealers to meat shields, which is horrible considering their low AC. So they about suck now.
3. Fighters are the gods of general melee damage.i have to jump in a defend barbarians here. barbarians still do pretty good damage, fighters have just gotten better at it. rage is change to a number of rounds per day instead of times per day. i like this better because you can rage for a little bit and then save the rest if you need to. no more wasting a rage per day on something that dies in the first round. barbarians now get rage powers at ever even barbarian level. there are 2 rage powers that fix the AC problem by 6th level and make it higher than your normal AC every 6 levels of barbarian you have. and more rage powers to increase your DR as you level up. some of the other rage powers aren't that great but there are definitely some good ones. barbarians definitely got better imo.
another thing to note about classes. paladins and monks no longer have that pesky sentence that says if they took a level in anything other than paladin or monk, they can no longer level as a paladin or monk. so now you can multiclass paladin/monk and smite(which is freaking awesome now) punch things to death.
all the classes got better, and there are no more d4 HD classes. i strongly suggest that you get the book if you can.
I am not saying the barbarians are not viable any more. I am just saying they no longer really have a niche as all other classes can do their job better, specially the fighter, with the exception of having a lot of HP. That extra HP means very little as they not only don't have heavy armor, are punished for do so, and take an AC hit for using their rage class ability.
You are speaking of rage powers to deal with AC? Do they require a swift action, or other action to activate?
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*shrug* Your loss.
But just out of curiosity, if you're not "into PF," why are you here?
Partly out of habit, partly to hear about new PF stuff that I may pass on to my mates who love PF (e.g. I let them know about PF SORD), partly for the 3.5 and 4e chats (the WotC forums are ungainly in their operation IMHO) and I guess partly to keep up on the scene in terms of PF (I also like a good discussion).
Hmmm. A lot of good things, but at the top of my list.
1. Feats, such as cleave, now suck
2. Barbarians have now gone from damage dealers to meat shields, which is horrible considering their low AC. So they about suck now.
3. Fighters are the gods of general melee damage.i have to jump in a defend barbarians here. barbarians still do pretty good damage, fighters have just gotten better at it. rage is change to a number of rounds per day instead of times per day. i like this better because you can rage for a little bit and then save the rest if you need to. no more wasting a rage per day on something that dies in the first round. barbarians now get rage powers at ever even barbarian level. there are 2 rage powers that fix the AC problem by 6th level and make it higher than your normal AC every 6 levels of barbarian you have. and more rage powers to increase your DR as you level up. some of the other rage powers aren't that great but there are definitely some good ones. barbarians definitely got better imo.
another thing to note about classes. paladins and monks no longer have that pesky sentence that says if they took a level in anything other than paladin or monk, they can no longer level as a paladin or monk. so now you can multiclass paladin/monk and smite(which is freaking awesome now) punch things to death.
all the classes got better, and there are no more d4 HD classes. i strongly suggest that you get the book if you can.
I am not saying the barbarians are not viable any more. I am just saying they no longer really have a niche as all other classes can do their job better, specially the fighter, with the exception of having a lot of HP. That extra HP means very little as they not only don't have heavy armor, are punished for do so, and take an AC hit for using their rage class ability.
You are speaking of rage powers to deal with AC? Do they require a swift action, or other action to activate?
I made one houserule change to barbarian, but otherwise run them as is and they do a good job of it, when it comes down to pure combat potential fighters are better, but barbarians have more uses outside of the combat system. (not necesarily out off combat)
- Instead of +4 con I give them 2 temporary hitpoints per level, +2 on con based skill checks and abilities(like breathweapon DC) and +2 fortitude saves, I also give them 'ferocity' as long as they rage.
I'll prolly give half-orc barbarians endurance as bonus feat instead.
I made one houserule change to barbarian, but otherwise run them as is and they do a good job of it, when it comes down to pure combat potential fighters are better, but barbarians have more uses outside of the combat system. (not necesarily out off combat)
- Instead of +4 con I give them 2 temporary hitpoints per level, +2 on con based skill checks and abilities(like breathweapon DC) and +2 fortitude saves, I also give them 'ferocity' as long as they rage.
I'll prolly give half-orc barbarians endurance as bonus feat instead.
Personaly that is a perfectly good little patch, but I like my barbarians having the chance of dying when going out of rage, it makes for a more dynamic game-play. However they should have a reward for their risk, which they currently do not.
Partly out of habit, partly to hear about new PF stuff that I may pass on to my mates who love PF (e.g. I let them know about PF SORD), partly for the 3.5 and 4e chats (the WotC forums are ungainly in their operation IMHO) and I guess partly to keep up on the scene in terms of PF (I also like a good discussion).
*shrug* Your loss.
But just out of curiosity, if you're not "into PF," why are you here?
Cool. Hope you change your mind about PF, tho. It really is worth the effort.
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Cool. Hope you change your mind about PF, tho. It really is worth the effort.
Well, I have kept hold of my Pathfinder rulebooks (the Beta and final books) as well as my RotR and CotCT Players Guides and the Golarion Gazeteer, so I guess I am still open to possibility of playing in the future - but I think it will take a realy great setting (if someone was offering to run an Eberron game using Pathfinder I may bite the bullet) or an awesome scenario idea to get me playing again.
I must admit the Pathfinder Society is a good living campaign especially with the way the PFS gives an easy way to explain a load of strangers working together (unlike Living Forgotten realms) - I ran some scenarios at conventions and home games when it was in Season Zero and still using the 3.5 rules. I haven't been bothered about creating a character for PFS now that it uses the PF rules and I wouldn't ever feel able to GM a game as I am not familiar with all the changes in the PF ruleset. So I have played a few LFR and now that the Mongoos Living Traveller campaign has just kicked off that will probably be my Living campaign of choice for the moment :)
Xp has changed, some things are diffrent but the same as the way they are written is diffrent but it works out just the same. I would say 98% of what has changed I think is for the better and I'm still using my 3.X material I'm even running a 3.5 adventure, ok it needs abit of work to balance it out but its all good :)
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Hi digitalMage. As your old Pathfinder G.M.for Rise of the Runelords i'm surprised to read your comments saying you think PF is a better system than 3.5, i'm even more surprised to hear you saying you would consider playing it again.I got the impression you left our group because you didn't agree with our favouring PF and our lack of interest in playing 4th edition E.T.C. I thought you would have moved on to 4th by now and not looked back although it's good to see PF had some kind of effect on you lol. I guess i'm just a little shocked at you still taking an interest in PF as i thought those days were behind you.
It's also nice that you think of us in ref to keeping an eye out for Pathfinder news although not really necessary. We all love the system so much were on paizo's site constantly checking for news as well as me having a direct gaming supplier at the store as you know, so not much slips through the cracks. Still like i say it's nice to be thought of.
I think i mentioned to you last time we spoke that most of us are heading to Paizocon this weekend and were all buzzed to play more living games. It really hasn't changed much in ref to rule changes i'm sure you would adapt very quickly should you decide to ever play again at a con.
Keep in touch mate and i hope your new group is going well.