Spell books useable as scrolls

[roguerouge]

What effect would it have to make wizard spellbooks useable as scrolls?

[Helic]

roguerouge wrote:

What effect would it have to make wizard spellbooks useable as scrolls?

Wizards would use their spellbooks as scrolls in emergencies...wiping out their hard earned spells. Also, if spellbooks could be used as scrolls, shouldn't the reverse be true (i.e. studying spells from scrolls should not blank the scroll)?

The only real upside is using captured spellbooks as scrollbooks. This is IMO a high powered option, as every wizard has at least one book full of spells hanging around - it's like adding dozens of scrolls to every wizard's treasure pile.

[Tryn]

I always used this option in my games, I think it's a nice "Last Resort" Option for a Wizard.
on the other Hand I normally not give enemy Spellbooks to players, if I had to (bacause they hunt down a enemy wizard) they only get his "travel spellbook.

[Remco Sommeling]

back in second edition my DM mentioned the idea.. ofcourse the DM in question was a mean SOB (my cousin), so we rejected the idea en masse.

Undoubtly he would steal our spellbooks and have the thief cast spells at us wiping clean page after page..

[Khuldar]

roguerouge wrote:

What effect would it have to make wizard spellbooks useable as scrolls?

Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed. Page 80.

"Direct casting of a spell from a spell book automatically destroys that spell. There is also a 1% chance per level of the spell that the spells immediately preceding and following the spell cast will be likewise be destroyed. There is an additional 1% chance that the casting of the spell directly from the spell book will destroy the entire book"

There is a bit more, but that's the relevant bit...

YMMV, not a bad house rule, but possibly subject to abuse. With modern item crafting (scribe scroll) costs, this can open loopholes for price breaks. Captured spellbooks might be looked at as a "big wad of scrolls" which is a lot more valuable then the book should be.

[Lord Starmight]

I've been in several campaigns where this has been house ruled. It added simplicity to the game and kept things moving. I highly recommend it.

[Duskrunner]

Khuldar wrote:

"Direct casting of a spell from a spell book automatically destroys that spell. There is also a 1% chance per level of the spell that the spells immediately preceding and following the spell cast will be likewise be destroyed. There is an additional 1% chance that the casting of the spell directly from the spell book will destroy the entire book"

Funny that is is basically what I use in my campaign. Only difference is the chance for failure is 5% instead of the 1%.

I have not had any issue of wizards (or the party for that matter) eying the captured spell books as a source of scrolls. the wizard tend to try to copy those spells over and only use the captured books in case of emergency. However they have sold the book off after the transfer of any spells that they do not know.

[gigglestick]

I have always allowed spellbooks to be used as scrolls.

This give a bit more flexibility ot sorcerors to have that one-use spell. And it makes enemy spellbooks more useful, because if you already know a spell in the book, but don;t want to memorise it, you can carry the extra spellbook and use the one there...

[unopened]

I´ve used this back on 2nd edition. increasing casting time to 1 round per spell lvl, and a net 2% x spell level to destroy the spell and 1% per spell lvl to destroy the spellbook

[Khuldar]

Duskrunner wrote:

I have not had any issue of wizards (or the party for that matter) eying the captured spell books as a source of scrolls. the wizard tend to try to copy those spells over and only use the captured books in case of emergency. However they have sold the book off after the transfer of any spells that they do not know.

Just keep an eye on the wealth by level guidlines.

Imagine a fresh young wizard, stepping out into the wide world after years in the academy. Now imagine him being rolled into a ditch and someone looting his spellbook. Your starting spellbook is going to have 20 cantrips and 3+INT 1st level spells (let's assume 6 for this instance)

As scrolls you have 20 0th level x 12.5gp, and 6 1st level x 25gp = 400gp market price.
As a book, its 20x5 +6x10=160gp

Both these are list price, half it for selling. In my opinion, spellbooks should be counted as part of the loot. Making this change can dramatically alter things. There is also the question of what caster level to use. Higher level spells get more dramatic. 810gp to scribe a 9th level spell in a book, 1,912.5gp to write one as a scroll.

You do have the (small) chance of spells erasing others if you use the old UA rules, and the issue of lugging around huge piles of books, rather then a few scroll cases, but there is a significant discount to abusing the books-as-scroll rule. It is supposed to be a OMG emergency! option, but if used causally, monkeys with the cash dynamics.

[LazarX]

I only allow this with the following guidelines.

1. The wizard can only do this on thier own personal book. Spells from a captured wizards book are not usable until they have been deciphered by either spellcraft or using Read Magic (yes there is a reason for this spell!) and copied into the wizard's personal spell book. If you're feeling a bit generous you can allow some use of a captured spellbook for spell preparation, but not for direct casting.

2. I strictly enforce the UA rule on this subject.

This pretty much cuts down any casual use of this option.

[Lord Starmight]

Also the scroll spell level is the base level. The difference in value really is negligible in comparison to how much loot gets thrown around over the course of a campaign.

[johnofthewired]

i have used this before, however, the spell is wiped from the spell book until the player can find/buy it for replacement. kind of keep the abuse down if they loose that expensive spell.

[Trayan Thandros]

I like this varriant, but with our games we changed a few details. Instead of 1% per spell level, we did 5% ends up being a coin flip at higher levels. And we decided on a flat 10% chance to destroy the book. Also an increase in casting time, just like sorcerer with Meta magic. With these changes it makes it hard to abuse, spell books are not spell completion items and using them as such should take longer, also you have to have the book in hand, usually another action, and should some sunder happy fighter hit the book your in a bad way. I think this way it is a perfectly playable solution. But GMs be warned a caster can use a scroll without the requisite caster level with a chance for mishaps. Magic can get real gritty real fast when they find spells above their Ken and get desperate enough to play with fire (ball)..

[Tursic]

If you want a spell book full of scolls just buy a spell book and use the scribe scroll feat to fill it with spells. I did this for a duskblade in 3.5. It should not be a problem if increase the casting time by 1 round to do so. Thus a summon monster spell would take two rounds and all spells would take more than one round. Which is a long time in a battle, and would not change the cost of spells in spellbooks.

[Bwang]

I run that the spellbook version of a spell includes notes, etc that constitute research, etc. That is why it takes extra space. 'Scrolls' take all manner of forms.