Tempest? Doesn't have to mean "two-weapons." Could be a raging storm of steel and flame.
Savant? A student completely devoted to smashing face.
Einerjar? Who wouldn't want a great fighter/mage for Ragnarok?
Myrmidon? Imagine if Achilles would have had stone-skin and protection from arrows, and haste in effect...
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Come on, got to be Warlock. An existing word that represents a magic-practitioner proficient in weaponry.
Warlock is generally thought to come from the Old English waerloga, meaning oathbreaker. Wiccans use it to refer to someone who uses magic selfishly, in a betrayal of their spiritual beliefs.
It's not really weapon-associated at all, and the only version of 'warlock' that has anything to do with fighting has nothing to do with magic (a literal 'war lock' to secure against hostile invasion).
But, Golarion isn't modern society or historically accurate, and words like 'necromancer' (a kind of diviner) 'wizard' (a wise man) 'druid' (a storyteller) and 'monk' (a bald dude who eschews the company of woman, prays a lot and makes wine) mean very different things than they did in ye olde days, so having Warlock as a term for a magical warrior is as accurate as anything else.
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scion and kai both sound cool but what the hell do they mean in this context?
If you don't know why a Kai Lord is the ultimate fighter/magic-user, you should pick these up. :)
I was mostly putting Scion up to poke fun at Mongoose's Scion class from Ultimate Prestige Classes.
My favorites in those submited yet are:
Warlock (sadly, already established so probably hard to push, but pretty strong reference. Always envisioned warlocks as being arcane casters / melee)
Archon
Eldric
Alvar
Siden
Weirdbrand
Maverick
Champion
Justicar
Magus
Esper
Scion
I humbly submit:
-Paradoxist
-Hero (yeah, way generic, but sticked into memory from playing games like Dragon Warrior and Shining Force)
-Munchkin (sorry, had to say it)
Tempest? Doesn't have to mean "two-weapons." Could be a raging storm of steel and flame. ...
Savant? A student completely devoted to smashing face. ...
Einerjar? Who wouldn't want a great fighter/mage for Ragnarok? ...
Myrmidon? Imagine if Achilles would have had stone-skin and protection from arrows, and haste in effect..
Come on, got to be Warlock. An existing word that represents a magic-practitioner proficient in weaponry.Warlock is generally thought to come from the Old English waerloga, meaning oathbreaker.
CrimJ has a nice connection here.
All we have to do is use the old BECMI class. What was it called?
Ah yes. Elf.
There we go. Done. ;)
Okay, here are my serious suggestions:
Valkyrie
Immortal (from the name of Xerxes' elite warriors)
Primus
Excalibur
Oplomancer (a portmanteau, admittedly, but from mangled GREEK)
Part of the problem is magic as D&D knows it isn't real in any of our fighting traditions, so no existing culture that I am aware of (and my awareness may be the greater issue) has a single word for an eldritch warrior. We have people who practiced what they believed was magic (and who knows? Perhaps it was. But it still wouldn't resemble D&D magic), but witches, magi, shamans, etc., while they may have taken up the ability to fight, were just called that and not any other specific name. Of course again I may be corrected with more knowhow than I.
The reason people come up with portmanteaus because that is the very English-speaking thing to do (and most other languages do it to, though some are more prone to borrowing, which English also does with great abandon). When there isn't an existing word, smash a few together, throw grammar to the wind, and make a new word. (I suppose Mr. Mona communicates by "electronic mail" on the "inter-network" and posts his thoughts on his "World Wide Web log." ;) ) Thus restricting portmanteaus seems rather unnecessary. Why not "Mageknight" or "Spellblade"? If the shoe fits... minor semantic niggles should not prevent you from wearing it.
Otherwise we just end up making up words from scratch. Like Gish or Zerth, for example.
EDIT: As it took me like an hour to write this, others have posted since; I must say I do like Harbinger and Athame
I vote to recycle 'Warlock'.
Perhaps not the most historically appropriate as Set pointed out, but perhaps the most evocative of the fighter/magic-user class concept in a more modern perception of the term.
'findel
More mangled Greek:
Xiphomancer
Dyad (meaning two people) or Dyadic (of two)
Nemesis (similar to warlock but without the established concept)
Esoteric (belonging to the select few / secret)
Orphic
Unfortunately everything I came up with was a portmanteu, so I have nothing new to add. That said, I'm liking warlock or archon.
Tempest? Doesn't have to mean "two-weapons." Could be a raging storm of steel and flame...
I like that.
I happened to like Mash, though i guess acroynms are out as well? (stands for Martial Arcane Spellcaster Hybrid) came up a while ago in one of the discussions. Not a great class name though, but its not terrible for a term to dicuss it at least.
Very interesting question ...
Speaking of wiz/fighter classes, is the next issue of KQ still going to have a new take on it?
according to the ads for the next KQ the Pathfinder Battlemage will be in the issue
Myrmidon? Imagine if Achilles would have had stone-skin and protection from arrows, and haste in effect..
Wait ... he didn't?
I thought he just had this as an innate gift and Paris happened to get a stash of Adamantine arrows ...
;-)
ObiWhat, my name means 'Heart', not 'arcane dude with a weapon'!
Obi Canicus 'sash born of fire'
Obi Canicus 'sash born of fire'ObiWhat, my name means 'Heart', not 'arcane dude with a weapon'!
Not if you use this site. #87 under Male names.
Sparkly sword-swingy guy.
ok japanese (i think is Senshi Mahoo) warrior wizard
so Senshimo
or something migt be a totaly unaceptable bastardization ha
I believe (but I am not an expert) it would be the other way around, something like Mahou-Senshi (that would be more "magical warrior").
But that's still a portmanteau, just a Japanese one. :)
Valkyrie
I like this. Don't see many Norse themes around.
Makes me think of Thane, but that might be because I remember it as the fighter with lightning magic from my Dark Ages of Camelot days.
Thank you. I've been playing Nethack lately myself. :)
I think they also used "Thane" in Titan Quest for someone who took Warfare and Storm Mastery. (Possibly as an homage to DAoC) It's a good word too.
Warder
From middle english: wardere, from warde – act of guarding; warden, keeper, guardian
I also like the reference to D&D's classic use of the word, "ward", which often is used in referring to protection of a magical nature.
In other words, a strict Pathfinder translation could be: magic guardian or guardian of magic.
And you forgot the other part of thier appeal. They weren't elves, who ere also fighter/mages back then.
1st: Gish became famous because 1E Gith were fighter/mages. They could fight and had magic (or psionics but treated the same usually).
Not so. The Githyaki were an AD&D monster where Elves could be Fighters, Magic-users, Thieves, Clerics or various combinations.
Elves as a class was specific to BECMI D&D.
Not to mention that Githyaki weren't exactly a Player option outside of houserules.
I've always loved Fighter / Mage types, and truthfully, the term Gish has never bothered me. I would love a core class for this concept, however and I have always been a fan of the Bladesinger [ obviously ]. I like the portmanteu names of Swordmage, Mageblade, Duskblade and Swordcanter from someone upthread. I always liked Asha'man from Wheel of Time as well. My choices have to go with
Myrmidon
Thaumaturge
Exemplar
Jannisary
Legionary
Arcanamach
Mage
I happened to like Mash, though i guess acroynms are out as well? (stands for Martial Arcane Spellcaster Hybrid) came up a while ago in one of the discussions. Not a great class name though, but its not terrible for a term to dicuss it at least.
Unfit for a class yes, but I do feel Mash is indeed pretty awesome for board discussion reasons.
I'ts a neologism, it's catchy and describes a fighter that uses magic to enhance his martial ability.
Too bad that it's already taken...
EDIT: BTW these novels are awesome. XD
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How come nobody said Munchkin yet? It's gotta be the most appropriate, along with Powergamer -- save that "Powergamer" is a portmanteaus.
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Of the ones suggested so far, Warlock makes the most sense to me. It's got my vote.... If Paizo is gonna use the name Warlock (since it can't be the Eldritch Blast concept) it's gotta be something people are gonna readily accept. The Core Gish Class is the best bet.
I also kinda like the proposed Arcanamach. A distant second choice.
For me, I'll always stick with Monte Cook's Mage-Blade. Best name for a Gish. Ever.
Who said Magister?! Magisters are librarians. They have neither martial skill nor magic. Shame on Monte Cook for calling his Wizard Class "Magister."
i have no problem with "gish." it's descriptive, so what's the problem? why does it bother some people so much?
but if we must have a new term, how about "fighter-wizard-multiclass?" (the hyphens make it one word :-P).
I have no names to add, I like a few so far
Myrmidon
Jannisary
Savent
Thane
Esper
Aspirant
Vanguard
Warden
I would not use warlock, it's too well established and brings to much confusion, hell some folks will think it's a male witch anyhow
Also can not agree with witcher because of the witch confusion
i have no problem with "gish." it's descriptive, so what's the problem? why does it bother some people so much?
This has been covered many times, it';s not descriptive, it means something else to old schoolers and often means VERY different thing to non gamers.
any how paizo needs it replaced as they can't use the term anyhow.
How come nobody said Munchkin yet?
Somebody did. I'm not going to bother finding it for you but here's a clue... It's on THIS friggen page.
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Some words seem very misapplied and it would bug me if they made it, sorry to be negative but.
An archon is an ancient Greek magistrate - not very magical
A scion is a descendant or heir, and the word already sees plenty of fantasy literature use to mean just that.
Esper is a clumsy bit of word formation if ever there was one (Extra-Sensory Perception-er? c'mon...)
An aegis is a piece of decorative clothing, would be good for some magical items.
I also don't like the many names that have cropped up which simply mean 'noble' or are slightly obscure noble titles (And the people who suggested Thane have shocked me by failing to reference the most famous Thane of them all: the Thane of Glamis, and later Cawdor).
Oh, and names which just mean "really awesome!" do we really need to imply that this class is better than all of the rest? Some even imply mastery and/or specialism, which presumably is definitely not what 'gish' types do (being inferior fighters to fighters and inferior wizards to wizards).
Most of all it is disappointing to see the plethora of portmanteaus - do we just ignore what Erik writes now?
Those I like:
Alvar - not very violent types but the mysticism feels right, maybe they're too bardic?
Soterthe greek hero cults that used the words tended to celebrate their Soters as magical and good at the fisticuffs.
These two also sound good, which helps.
I also dig vanguard, even though it does imply a certain type of party role.
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There are some great ideas here, but many of the words have implications tied to them (Jannissary, Justicar, etc.) And while Stabracadabra is now part of my daily lexicon :-) it doesn't really fit... I always thought the word for Fighter-mage was "elf" but I think I just dated when and how I started playing D&D.
Right now in all seriousness, Armiger is my vote.
Best I've seen:
Warlock
Mercane
Archon
Close:
Templar
Sentinel
Aegis
Nice but...:
Scion isn't bad at all, but too useful as a general term. (plus confusion with Psion).
Harbinger - too evil
Nemesis - too evil
Thane - too much a title
I love the word Myrmidon, but to me it's almost anti-magic.
Esper would be a great replacement for "Psychic Warrior".
Machomancer.
Arcanomach would mean someone who fights the arcane.
(And the people who suggested Thane have shocked me by failing to reference the most famous Thane of them all: the Thane of Glamis, and later Cawdor).
Because despite the supernatural references in the play, MacBeth (neither historical nor the character in the play) was not what I would call a gish. :) In that context, thane refers to a middling nobleman, and originally comes from a word for a noble's retainer.
The citations for using Thane actually had to do with the name being used for a warrior who cast spells.
Although amusingly, as I check my online sources to make sure I'm not making up all this stuff (just because I got an MA in English Lit doesn't mean I remember EVERYTHING off the top of my head), I find that according to Wikipedia (to be taken with its usual boulder of salt), the precursor concept to thane/thegn is gesith.
Heh.
Without portmanteaux (which I agree were getting horrendously overused by WotC et al.), so far the suggestion I've liked the most has been "vanguard" by a wide margin -- even though it technically has a different meaning, I could envision that role as being perfectly filled by a fighter/mage character. "Warder" (as opposed to "warden") isn't too bad.
"Thane" always makes me think MacBeth. "Justicar" and like terms are far better suited to an Inquisitor or Paladin. Indeed, given the intense annoyance over the use of the term "oracle" for Paizo's favored soul, I'd be hesitant to introduce a term like "thaumaturge" or "haruspex" that has a totally different, and very specific, English meaning. If "myrmidon" is in the running, I'd actually prefer "Praetorian" (technically the Roman emperor's elite guards, but that's a specific enough connotation that borrowing the term shouldn't cause any ambiguity).
I agree with others that "warlock" has far too much 3.5/4e baggage attached, and "archon" is out for similar reasons -- I strongly dislike having game terms with multiple ambiguous in-game meanings.
Finally, to my mind, cutesy names for "elf" in foreign languages fall suspiciously close to the "no nonsense words" stricture. "Kensai" is OK, but I'd steer clear of any of the more far-out Asian derivative names ("Shino-kenobu-wakaramasu-ka-san" or whatever).
For me, I'll always stick with Monte Cook's Mage-Blade. Best name for a Gish. Ever.
Not only an awesome name, but the best representation as a base class I've yet to see in print.
Dilettante
So far I like
myrmidon
warder
They follow the rules, have no in-game (or virtually no in-game) relationship, and their meaning can be stretched to fit the theme of the fighter-mage.
To be honest however, although the following names don't follow the rules and they aren't glamourous, I think "fighter-mage" or "duel-mage" (and perhaps "warmage") describe what the class is in a no-nonsense and very straightforward, if unimaginative, way. The first two don't have any in-game class association that I know of, but are immediately understood to describe what the class is and does. In fact, these names can simultaneously represent a variety of opinions on what an individual who fights with spells and weapons would be like.