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My party is heavily melee with no offensive casting and an archer that dislikes the idea of taking archery feats.
I am thinking of showing off what some simple but creative use of spells plus archery can do, to get a point across. Am I a bad person?
The encounter is this:
One archer (fighter 6), plus one caster (sorcerer 8, arcane). CR 8 total, if I'm correct.
The caster uses spells 1st through 3rd to buff the archer and make both of them invisible. The 4th level spell is dimension door.
The archer full-attacks, and the caster casts dimension door to move them both to an advantageous position. Each time the party approaches to a threatening range, this happens again. If the archer is somehow disabled, the caster will start doing other things to impede them or help the archer get up.
Seems like a perfectly legitimate encounter, if a bit playing to the party's weaknesses. As long as you don't throw this sort of thing at them every fight, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Will probably be a lot tougher on them than it would be on most groups given their makeup.
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An archer that doesn't take archery feats? :-/
Let 'em have it!
What does your party consist of specifically? A little tweaking might help (and still help the party survive if that is also a goal).
Hehehe reminds me of a barbarian player who had strength around 30 at level 5 during rage, smashed his way quite ffectively through everything, but managed to be nearly useless and almost die in such an encounter, armed with just a greataxe.
The next couple levels, all his money was spent on an enchanted greatclub (for those nasty skeletons), a dagger for the swallow whole, a composite longbow (for this kind of encounters) and a small club(just in case).
An archer that doesn't take archery feats? :-/
Let 'em have it!
She doesn't like people forcing her to take character options. So when we suggested rapid shot and deadly aim, she thought we were being too authoritative about her character and refused.
The party:
Human Fighter 6 - Turns anything within reach into a fine mist.
Half-elf Cleric 6 - Flimsy healbot that forgets she can cast spells other than healing.
Half-elf Rogue 5 - Rarely there, but sometimes contributes as a generalist rogue.
Elf Bard 1/Ranger 5 - Archer with limited ranged capability.
Kobold Cavalier 6 - Has a vicious pet velociraptor.
Dwarf Barbarian 5 - Axe -> Face. Also a hard player to get in touch with.
So mostly, it's the fighter, cleric, bard/ranger and cavalier as regulars. I'm not planning on sending them this encounter for a little while yet unless the whole cast shows up.
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I'd include a few mooks too, some 1st level warriors with tower shields, and a second line with reach weapons. MOre of an appetizer than anything else, but it prevents them from ganging up on one or the other BBEG.
Unless you field this up in a plain, or somewhere the archer can really take advantage of his reach, this is gonna be a chargefest.
Unless you field this up in a plain, or somewhere the archer can really take advantage of his reach, this is gonna be a chargefest.
Grease the battlefield. Doesn't hurt the teleporting characters at all but the folks trying to run up to them are hosed.
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If the party archer doesn't have Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, get some expendable mooks in close and let her learn how fun it isn't to fire into melee. And who cares if a few mooks get killed by the melee-heavy party? The archer on your side, who will of course HAVE those feats, will be shooting them full of holes with Rapid Shot/Manyshot at a safe distance.
Another note about your party archer: if you suggested that she take certain feats and she felt you were being too authoritative, someone needs to explain how suggestions =/= orders to her.
Also, you might give the sorcerer a useful wand or two for the battle, for rounds when the PCs are trying to get close. Doesn't have to be anything truly nasty, but a wand of slow could really extend the pain.
You might want also want to use some difficult terrain to slow the PCs advance. For more fun, add some undergrowth for concealment.
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The party notably doesn't have anyone who could cast Fly. So if the Sorcerer uses fly on herself and the archer, the party looks like they'd be in serious trouble (and those slots are lower than Dimension Door).
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The party notably doesn't have anyone who could cast Fly. So if the Sorcerer uses fly on herself and the archer, the party looks like they'd be in serious trouble (and those slots are lower than Dimension Door).
I agree with this suggestion. Please note, however, that some ranks in Fly are indicated (especially to the Archer), since you have to make a Fly check DC 15 in order to hover in place (and pepper the party with arrows).
For a real slaughter, I suggest to give Black Tentacles as a 4th level spell. Difficult terrain + Grapple checks every round is brutal against melee-only characters or charging ones...
Even a couple of potions of Fly would be good without having to rely too much on limited resources from the Sorcerer, although the bonus given to the Fly check for a caster level 5th potion is only +2.
Try giving Blur (20% miss from the few suboptimal ranged attacks of the Bard/Ranger) and Mirror Image; of course, only the Sorcerer can benefit from Mirror Image, but Blur is a Touch spell...
The Archer should obviously take Deadly Aim, since he would gain a +4 damage for only a -2 to hit... easy to overcome with the help of a couple of spells or abilities from the Sorcerer (see below). And maximize Fly as much as he can; of course, to build a 'credible' character, I suggest you not to give ranks in Fly for the first 3-4 levels... in order to recreate the situation of a character who couldn't afford reliably to Fly and so couldn't take ranks in the skill before.
So, with Blur, Mirror Image (eventually), Slow, Haste (or Fireball, if you want to crisp them with a combo Arrows+Fire) and Black Tentacles, 3-4 potions of Fly (2 for each character, just in case of a Dispel Magic from the Cleric), you still have all 1st-level spells and one 2nd-level spell to choose . Or two 2nd-level spells, if you make the Sorcerer a Destined Bloodline (bonus spell Blur + Touch of Destiny 6/7 times per day, just to give an additional +4 to hit on ALL attacks to the Archer for 1 round).
Just my 2c.
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I love how the OP asked if the encounter was too difficult, and everyone suggest ways to make it harder. See OP, you arent a bad person, everyone else here on the boards is.
On a serious note, dont take it too far, I recommend against things the party is completely unable to deal with (fly, and improved invis). Normal old invisibility is fine, so is throwing in mooks. But if you put them in the air or make them permanently invisible its a gauranteed tpk because the party wont be able to hit back.
Depending on the personality of the players involved, making an encounter that the party has little hope of winning could potentially be a fun "learning experience". Some players actually like finding monsters they can't kill the first time, retreating to make a plan, and coming back to vanquish them. Other players just keep attacking regardless of the situation until their PCs all start dying and then complain that the DM is unfair. If you've got the latter players then an encounter like the one you have planned isn't likely to be much fun. If you think you've got the former then go for it. Just make sure that's there's an obvious escape route (like get out of the ravine the archer is shooting down into and into a nearby room/building)
The Cleric seems like the key PC for some of these situations. If you spark her imagination about her spell list she can deal with a lot of things.
Archer on a Cliff/Roof/Balcony or Flying
- Summon Monster can bring in flying attackers or even mounts
- She gets Air Walk next level
Invisible Foe
- Invisibility Purge is a pretty useful spell though she'd need to get fairly near the foe
- Celestial Dire Bat seems like a good fit, other stuff might work depending on the situation
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I was just looking though my Tome of Magic, and there is a Sorcerer/Wizard spell called Scramble Foes. Basically, it's a 10 foot burst that teleports opponents 10 feet in a random direction, then forces a Reflex save to avoid becoming prone.
It's only 1st level, but requires a Truespeech check, and would be a nifty wand for the BBEG if you want to disrupt the PC's positioning. Might be especially fun on a battlefield with cliffs, pits, lava, other kinds of traps or difficult terrain, etc.
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Human Fighter 6 - Turns anything within reach into a fine mist.
Half-elf Cleric 6 - Flimsy healbot that forgets she can cast spells other than healing.
Half-elf Rogue 5 - Rarely there, but sometimes contributes as a generalist rogue.
Elf Bard 1/Ranger 5 - Archer with limited ranged capability.
Kobold Cavalier 6 - Has a vicious pet velociraptor.
Dwarf Barbarian 5 - Axe -> Face. Also a hard player to get in touch with.So mostly, it's the fighter, cleric, bard/ranger and cavalier as regulars. I'm not planning on sending them this encounter for a little while yet unless the whole cast shows up.
Ok, here is where you implement a little group of mischief's that my old DM of 25 years cooked up.
What you have is a group of Ten party level-2 gnome monks all with dust of disappearance ambush the party, show up, pummel the group doing exclusively nonlethal damage via Flurry of blows to knock the party out and steal one precious magic or super useful item from each player while they are all unconscious. Also abduct the cavaliers pet raptor and cut off the Dwarfs beard..... Wait we were talking about being really mean to your players and pissing them off right?
But seriously the best way of teaching a player to take advantage of something they are missing out on is by making it worth their time by giving them incentives, or steering them into another class
Favored enemy/terrain can be really nasty when done right!