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I am going to take this feat from Spes Magna Games' Latina Facta & Versatile Performance Redux:
"Aequam Memento Rebus in Arduis Servare Mentem. (General)
Remember to maintain a calm mind while doing difficult tasks.
Prerequisite: Wis 13.
Benefit: When attempting a skill check that faces a DC of 25 or higher, add your Wisdom modifier to your die roll."
My question is would this feat apply to opposed checks if the result of my opponent's roll is 25 or higher (the result of his roll being my DC in a sense)?
In 3.5, the SRD appears to make a distinction between skills that have a DC and opposed checks:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm
In PF, less of a distinction is made:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/usingSkills.html.
Thanks in advance for your help!
I am tempted to say the feat isn't balanced at all, for a divine caster the bonus on most skill checks will end up having a huge bonus far beyond what a feat should do with or without adding the benefit to opposed rolls.
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I am tempted to say the feat isn't balanced at all, for a divine caster the bonus on most skill checks will end up having a huge bonus far beyond what a feat should do with or without adding the benefit to opposed rolls.
I agree, Plus if the skill check is Wis based.. You have the king of perception checks. Double Wisdom bonus for the win!
Is there a distinction? Let's see if we can reason it out.
For starters, take the Climb skill.
1. You approach a cliff that you need to climb. This cliff is rough, riddled with hand-holds and foot-holds so numerous that climbing it would almost be like climbing a ladder. DC = 10
2. You approach a cliff that you need to climb. Milennia of wind and rain and erosion have worn this cliff to a glass-like surface that is so smooth that even a spider could barely cling to it. DC = 30.
Now, in the first case, your guy with this feat says "Piece of cake, I scurry right up the cliff." and he gets no benefit from the feat. But in the second case he says "Wow, this is really going to be hard. I need to calm myself, focus my inner peace, and set my mind to the task." and he gets to add his WIS modifier to the check.
That all makes perfect sense.
Now, take the Bluff skill.
1. You decide to bluff a guard to abandon his post so you can get entry to the building he is guarding. The guard stands there, stoically observing you as you approach. Even though he is an older man, he is a new guard; it's his first day in fact, and he's not very wise. Sense Motive = 0. He rolls badly, only gets a 5, so DC = 5
1. You decide to bluff a guard to abandon his post so you can get entry to the building he is guarding. The guard stands there, stoically observing you as you approach. He is an older man and a veteran guard with years of dealing with shady guys like you, and wisdom beyond his ears. Sense Motive = 30. He rolls well, gets a 15, so DC = 30.
Now, in the first case, your guy with the feat says "Hmmm, I know nothing about this guy, so I have no way to know if he will be hard or easy to bluff." And in the second case, your guy says the exact same thing.
How will you possibly know whether you must focus your mind and center your calm to overcome the hard DC? The answer is, you cannot possibly know, unless you spent time and effort researching the guard, learning his strengths and weaknesses - but let's assume for now that you didn't have the time or means to do that.
So there is no way to know if you can or should use your feat.
So what then? Do we rely on the DM? Should the DM say "Oh, wow, this guy rolled well, you better focus your mind and use your feat"? Maybe. Perhaps the DM should put it in Roleplay terms "The guard glares at you suspiciously and you get the impression that this guy knows his stuff and you will need all your wits about you if your bluff is to have any chance of success."
You could certainly rule it that way. I mean, if the DM is going to allow this feat, he should provide a means for you to get some use out of it.
On the other hand, a DM could easily see the difference between those two scenarios (Climb vs. Bluff) and quickly realize that there are situaions, usually opposed skill checks, that your character could not possibly realize just how difficult it will be to succeed, and he might deny you the use of your feat in those cases.
This judgment call would be based on the assumption that your feat only works when your character can clearly see the difficulty of the task - after all, it's the actual difficulty that motivates him to focus his mind harder and to center his inner calm to resolve such a difficult task, so without a clear understanding that the task is difficult, he wouldn't feel the need to take those extra precautions.
Either approach seems equally valid to me, which means that if they also seem equally valid to you and/or your DM, you two would need to work out exactly how you'll handle it in advance, so you could feel justified in taking this feat or in abandoning it for something more useful.
And there is a final consideration: If we take the first approach, that there is always some way for you to know how hard a skill check will be, even on opposed rolls, then this is almost just a free bonus to all your skills. Let's face it, if you're high enough level, almost everything you do will have those kinds of DCs, and the things that don't have high DCs you'll almost always succeed anyway since you'll be high level with lots of ranks in all your useful skills.
Do you and your DM really want such a powerful (maybe overpowered) feat that is little more than a free bonus on most of your skill checks?
I know, that's not an answer, but maybe it sheds enough light on the debate to help you work out an answer that will satisfy both you and your DM.
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I am going to take this feat from Spes Magna Games' Latina Facta & Versatile Performance Redux:
"Aequam Memento Rebus in Arduis Servare Mentem. (General)
Remember to maintain a calm mind while doing difficult tasks.
Prerequisite: Wis 13.
Benefit: When attempting a skill check that faces a DC of 25 or higher, add your Wisdom modifier to your die roll."My question is would this feat apply to opposed checks if the result of my opponent's roll is 25 or higher (the result of his roll being my DC in a sense)?
In 3.5, the SRD appears to make a distinction between skills that have a DC and opposed checks:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm
In PF, less of a distinction is made:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/usingSkills.html.
Thanks in advance for your help!
To answer your question, from the way the feat is written, it would apply to opposed checks if the opponent's roll is 25+.
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I know, that's not an answer, but maybe it sheds enough light on the debate to help you work out an answer that will satisfy both you and your DM.
It does. Thanks very much for that analysis.
So there is no way to know if you can or should use your feat.
I agree. I would say that my character's SOP would be to stay cool on all skill checks, easy or hard. If he ends up needing the bonus (due to high DC), then he would get it.
Do you and your DM really want such a powerful (maybe overpowered) feat that is little more than a free bonus on most of your skill checks?
Definitely yes! lol. We tend to be "player friendly" for the most part and allow most things.
To answer your question, from the way the feat is written, it would apply to opposed checks if the opponent's roll is 25+.
Thanks!
I am tempted to say the feat isn't balanced at all, for a divine caster the bonus on most skill checks will end up having a huge bonus far beyond what a feat should do with or without adding the benefit to opposed rolls.As the GM involved here let me just say, wow! Thanks for not answering the question in any way. Why don't you just say "your GM is a moron for allowing this feat!"? In our games, once a feat has been accepted then it is open to everyone. Npcs as well. So to balance this feat out I can just give it to the bad guys too. We were simply wondering how the feat would be played, not if others GMs would allow it in their game. If you have an opinion on DC vs. Opposed checks I would love to hear it. Otherwise, stick to the peanut gallery.
To those who actually answered the question, much thanks!
your GM is a moron for allowing this feat ! ^^ oh wait you are the GM.. oh well in that case. Make up your own mind what you think is right for this feat.
sorry if I am tempted to say if a feat is open to such silly rules that common sense does not really apply to adjucating the feat effect, hence I can not judge it on those grounds.
I thought to try to tell nicely though.