This came up in my game last night, can you take a 5' step while flying?
I don't think so because moving half you movement or less requires a DC 10 Fly check, and any kind of movement that requires a check shouldn't be free.
Thoughts?
That depends on your manuverability. If you have perfect manuverability, or can otherwise hover, then you don't need to move when you fly.
Hovering creatures can take a 5' "step".
This came up in my game last night, can you take a 5' step while flying?
I don't think so because moving half you movement or less requires a DC 10 Fly check, and any kind of movement that requires a check shouldn't be free.
Thoughts?
Magical flight can let you take a five foot step since you don't have to do much other than think about it. Normal flight can five-foot-step if you can hover.
Note this:
Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is
made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Fly check made as part of a miscellaneous action = perfectly legal and in fact how the skill is advertised as being used.
Hmm, that's complicated.
If someone can hover I don't see why not, and that's probably the thing most likely to want to take a 5 ft step.
For everyone else:
I definetly wouldn't allow someone to take a 5 ft step directly backwards from the direction they had moved in the previous turn (that's like turning 180 degrees, which costs 10 ft of movement). And I would definetely allow someone to 5 ft adjust into the square directly in front of the direction they had moved in the previous turn (essentially continuing straight line movement).Between straight ahead, and straight back, I don't know. I'm leaning towards 5 ft adjusts can only be done if straight ahead (based on previous movement).
Except that the previous rounds movement does not affect the current rounds movement. The turning 180 rule only matters during movement. At the start of your turn you can move in any direction without a penalty based on the previous turns movement.
Also, any maneuverability type can hover, they just have to make a DC 15 check. It was in 3.5 that only certain maneuverability types could do certain actions. Even perfect flyers have to make a DC 10 if they move less than half their movement, it's just an easy check for them since they start with a base +8.
Being as easy as walking doesn't equal being the SAME as walking (you don't have to make walking checks if you go too slow).
I would expand that question to the other forms of movement as well.
Can a creature without a listed swim speed 5' step in water?
Can a creature with burrow 5' step in soil?
Can a creature without access to regular flight 5' step in air?
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Cainus and I are in the same game; the flying question and my glitterdust both came up last night.
I think this is tricky to consider, in light of the fly spell and a 5' step. The rules on 5' step is actually pretty clear on modes of movement and the ability to take a 5' step. A creature without a listed movement speed for the type of movement cannot take a 5' step. Thus you can't 5' step in water without a swim speed, a burrow speed allows a 5' step, etc.
The ambiguity I think lies in what the fly spell is giving the recipient. It allows the recipient to fly with a speed of 60 (or less if encumbered via armor). It allows a charge, but prohibits a run.
A creature with a listed fly speed has no such limitation on if they can 'run', eg move at 3x or 4x their normal move. It would therefore seem a logical step to assume that the fly spell is not granting a creature a fly speed. They can fly at a speed, but they don't possess a fly speed. Putting them in violation of the listed speed clause of a 5' step.
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I had a killer post...hit submit and took me to the main page. Here goes again:
Summary: Only creatures requiring no skill checks to hover, or that cannot fail a hover check that round, and with at least 1 rank in the Fly skill can take a 5' step while airborne.
Analysis - If you take any movement in a turn you can't take a 5' step, and you can't take a 5' step if you don't have a listed speed for that movement type. Flying requires movement to stay aloft, and I have a conflict with those who take a check to hover with the possibility of failure.
For example, Creature takes a 5' step while airborne then fails hover check. Creature must now move to stay aloft, violating the rules of the 5' step. So, if you must make a check to hover and have a chance at failure, you shouldn't be able to take a 5' step as the possibility of failure brings you into conflict with the 5' step rules. Of course, some flyers will be so skilled and in a situation they can never fail a hover. At that point, you're in a situation where they should be able to take the 5' step, such is their prowess in the air.
Looking at the Fly skill, it is a free skill granted to natural flyers (which have a fly speed). Players can only take ranks in it when they get a way to fly (practice makes perfect). I would think 1 rank would convey, as it does for natural flyers, proficiency in airborne movement (aka a "fly speed"). Without any rank in fly, one can move in the air but doesn't actually have skill in doing so (no "fly speed"). I differentiate this from swimming as a movement form (assuming one takes ranks in swimming) as the mechanics behind achieving airborne movement and swim movements are quite different.
This take gives extra incentive to put ranks into the Fly skill as well.
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A creature with a fly spell yes. Its as easy as walking.
For a creature with less than perfect mobility trying to 5 foot flap, I'd handle it like a fast mount: you need to have the action available if you fail. if you succeed its just a 5 foot step. If you fail you're moving.
I agree with Big Norse Wolf.
A flying creature can definitely attempt to 5ft step. You must make the hover check to do so.
If you succeed at the check you 5ft step and hover. If you fail the check you attempt to 5ft step, and find that you can't keep yourself aloft and instead are forced to move a minimum of half you move speed to keep from falling.
There are no problems with 5ft step and violating the movement rule as MP433 worries about. You make the check, succeed and you 5ft step. Fail and you must move or fall.
The outcome of your check determines which action/course of action you actually take. You may want to 5ft step, but you haven't done so until you suceed on the check.
I have always played that a flying creature can only 5' step if they make the DC 15 Fly check to hover.
This came up in my game last night, can you take a 5' step while flying?
I don't think so because moving half you movement or less requires a DC 10 Fly check, and any kind of movement that requires a check shouldn't be free.
Thoughts?
I'm not an advanced enough player to know any of the rules for flying.
However, I play a ton of games, so here is how I see it:Why would you NOT be able to take a 5-foot 'step' when flying ?
The only exception to the rule that I have seen is if you are prone.
By my understanding of Pathfinder rules, then, since Flying is specifically not given any exception from the 5-foot rule step, you can 5-foot step.
Further discussion:
You said "Any kind of movement that requires a check shouldn't be free."
Why? Is that a rule I'm not aware of, or a precedent of a pseudo-rule that is often enacted? If it isn't something that's a guiding rule principal, than it's (no offense) opinion. A GM can certainly use opinion to inform his campaign (and should do so), but it helps to tell your players that this is an interpretation for dramatic effect, and not a rule per se.
I am backing the wolf on this one.
Cainus and I are in the same game; the flying question and my glitterdust both came up last night.
I think this is tricky to consider, in light of the fly spell and a 5' step. The rules on 5' step is actually pretty clear on modes of movement and the ability to take a 5' step. A creature without a listed movement speed for the type of movement cannot take a 5' step. Thus you can't 5' step in water without a swim speed, a burrow speed allows a 5' step, etc.
The ambiguity I think lies in what the fly spell is giving the recipient. It allows the recipient to fly with a speed of 60 (or less if encumbered via armor). It allows a charge, but prohibits a run.
A creature with a listed fly speed has no such limitation on if they can 'run', eg move at 3x or 4x their normal move. It would therefore seem a logical step to assume that the fly spell is not granting a creature a fly speed. They can fly at a speed, but they don't possess a fly speed. Putting them in violation of the listed speed clause of a 5' step.
fly speed is fly speed, just because it puts limits on it doesn't stop it being a fly speed.
If you couldn't run, you'd still be able to walk, and still be able to 5' step.so a fly check at the listed DC because you are moving less than half speed makes a 5' step perfectly ok. any increase to the DC is a house rule imo.