| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Telepathy (Su) The creature can mentally communicate with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature's entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.
Does telepathy allow for two-way communication between a telepath and a non-telepath?
I ask because my arcane trickster had a veil spell cast upon the party (which includes a janni), but she lost concentration while we were in the middle of dealing with our enemies. I wanted to inform the janni, telepathically, that we only had a few hours left for our disguises and then have him relay that information to the other characters in the party with his telepathy. That way, none of the bad guys we are dealing with know what's up.
If this is allowed even though only one of us has telepathy, then it would be a great boon to our spy mission.
The creature with the telepathy must initiate the communication, otherwise, yes, it is two-way.
What kind of action is it to do that? Would it be safe to say he always has an open line to his companions (particularly under stressful situations)?
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Telepathy (Su) The creature can mentally communicate with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature's entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.
There is your answer right there. Conversation is two way. Otherwise it would simply be 'communicating to' not 'communicating with' as it says in the beginning.
|
The creature with the telepathy must initiate the communication, otherwise, yes, it is two-way.What kind of action is it to do that? Would it be safe to say he always has an open line to his companions (particularly under stressful situations)?
Free action. Yes, but as Gilfas points out it can get complicated if everyone is shouting at once. (Which would enter into the realm of GM fiat, but if I had players using telepathy constantly you'd best believe I'll mess with the operator some.)
Personally I think it is not two way communication at all.. but well that is just me
Bump. Can we get a more definitive answer to this? Some people in my group claim that all telepathy is now one-way only unless noted otherwise, but as I read it it's all two-way unless noted otherwise.
|
|
Here's how it works as 2-way communication.
One person has the spell or ability active. They can
A: mentally speak to whomever they want
B: read anyones thoughts within range
So Player one has telepathy
Player three wants player one to tell players two, four, and five to prepare to withdraw
Player one, picking up on his name amid the chaotic thoughts of four other people, focuses in and tells player three to repeat that thought.
Player three thinks it over again.
Player one tells players two, four, and five and listens for their responses.
Other players don't need to be able to project their thoughts. Just one player, who's paying attention.
Well I just disagree telepathy coming with any sort of mind-reading ability. Two creatures capable of telepathy would be able to communicate just fine, if the targeted creature can't use telepathy he will just have to communicate in a different way.
|
|
Telepathy (from the Greek τηλε, tele meaning "distant" and πάθη, pathe meaning "affliction, experience"),[2] is the ostensible transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five senses (See Psi).[1][3] The term was coined in 1882 by the classical scholar Fredric W. H. Myers, a founder of the Society for Psychical Research,[1] specifically to replace the earlier expression thought-transference.[1][3] A person who is able to make use of telepathy is said to be able to read the thoughts and stored information in the brain of others.
:p
The spell is all about being able to mentally communicate with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature's entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language.
Right there in the spell. What is telepathy BUT some mind-reading ability?
Telepathy (from the Greek τηλε, tele meaning "distant" and πάθη, pathe meaning "affliction, experience"),[2] is the ostensible transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five senses (See Psi).[1][3] The term was coined in 1882 by the classical scholar Fredric W. H. Myers, a founder of the Society for Psychical Research,[1] specifically to replace the earlier expression thought-transference.[1][3] A person who is able to make use of telepathy is said to be able to read the thoughts and stored information in the brain of others.
:p
The spell is all about being able to mentally communicate with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature's entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language.
Right there in the spell. What is telepathy BUT some mind-reading ability?
There is also such a thing as a telepathy psionic discipline, which can do alot more than that, obviously telepathy is used in different contexts.
..and a tongue allows someone to verbally communicate within hearing distance.
Telepathy at the very least allows you to communicate your thoughts to another creature within 100 feet that has a language, allowing them to send back messages across the telepatic link I do not think so, unless ofcourse the creature in question also has telepathy.
Just how I think it works in 3.5/pathfinder, feel free to disagree.
they don't have to "send" anything back. The caster of telepathy can hear them from his spell. It has nothing to do with them. It's like detect thoughts with the ability for the caster to project thoughts too.
Claiming telepathy to be a permanent detect thoughts ability seems a bit less likely even, going from two-way communication to mindrape.
|
|
Interesting. You don't think telepathy allows people to read thoughts. So you can't use telepathy to pick up on what someone else is thinking. You also don't think that it allows 2-way communication.
Is this correct?
So what do you think telepathy does? Just allows you to put your thoughts into someone elses head and that's it?
detect thoughts is a 2nd lvl spell and allows the listening to all surface thoughts.
Tongues, a 3rd level spell lets you understand and speak all languages.
Telepathic bond, a 5th level spell, provides significant similarities to telepathy.
Important notes from the telepathy entry would be "it is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.
The ability references only the capabilities it provides to the user. It cannot assume other creatures have abilities without listing them as requirements. Thus, telepathy provides the ability to speak and listen to the caster. And all that implies.
Telepathic bond links creatures together with telepathy, allowing the creatures to "communicate telepathically through the bond". If you take the same reasoning you're using with telepathy and apply it to the telepathic bond, then the caster is the only one who benefits, and the spell is effectively useless.
Really, the ability itself references speaking and listening as abilities gained by the caster.
Interesting. You don't think telepathy allows people to read thoughts. So you can't use telepathy to pick up on what someone else is thinking. You also don't think that it allows 2-way communication.
Is this correct?
So what do you think telepathy does? Just allows you to put your thoughts into someone elses head and that's it?
detect thoughts is a 2nd lvl spell and allows the listening to all surface thoughts.
Tongues, a 3rd level spell lets you understand and speak all languages.
Telepathic bond, a 5th level spell, provides significant similarities to telepathy.
Important notes from the telepathy entry would be "it is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.
The ability references only the capabilities it provides to the user. It cannot assume other creatures have abilities without listing them as requirements. Thus, telepathy provides the ability to speak and listen to the caster. And all that implies.
Telepathic bond links creatures together with telepathy, allowing the creatures to "communicate telepathically through the bond". If you take the same reasoning you're using with telepathy and apply it to the telepathic bond, then the caster is the only one who benefits, and the spell is effectively useless.
Really, the ability itself references speaking and listening as abilities gained by the caster.
I think you assume too much, there could be two-way communication if the other creatures have telepathic abilities themselves. Much like two creatures speaking the same language, demons could have a telepathic conversation among themselves, but not with (most)mortals though they could speak to them and they could reply by speech. rary's telepathic bond clearly allows two-way communication, bestowing telepathic capabilities on all recipients.
The other spells you mentioned are inconsequential in whatever way I look on them.
In short telepathy allows silent, selective communication with other creatures within 100 feet, if they got telepathy themselves they can "talk" back if not they just "hear", and understand, it. That is basically what I think it does.
What I dont think it does is give other creatures the ability to telepathically speak to the creature unless it has telepathy itself.
It does not state speaking and listening as abilities gained it mentions the level of concentration needed to have a telepathic conversation.
|
|
If you're just speaking though, you're not having a telepathic conversation. You're not listening to anything, and making replies. You're just speaking.
Since the ability itself references both speaking and listening as within the purview of the ability, and again, it doesn't state that the other people under the effect need to have the ability, it implies that the ability allows for both speaking and listening through telepathy.
If you're just speaking though, you're not having a telepathic conversation. You're not listening to anything, and making replies. You're just speaking.
Since the ability itself references both speaking and listening as within the purview of the ability, and again, it doesn't state that the other people under the effect need to have the ability, it implies that the ability allows for both speaking and listening through telepathy.
well it is just that I think 'detect thoughts' as telepathy goes a bit too far. On the other hand I can not imagine very well the barbarian retard in the party to engage in a game of mindspeak.
While the text looks like it would allow two-way communication I find it conflicting with my feel for the ability, so I have serious doubts wether it should be/is the case.
I do not see much of a problem with a telepathicaly skilled creature being able to send thoughts and receive them from other telepathic creatures. So yes the full potential would not be realized unless the creature is among his own kind most likely.
It certainly should not function as a permanent detect thoughts ability regardless of how I interpret it, just thinking hard should not allow a creature to contact a telepathic creature without the creature initiating the contact first.
Contributor
|
I tend to agree with Remco...mostly.
I realize I'm going out on a limb by referencing literary/film examples, but there are numerous examples of a person or creature with telepathic ability having the ability to speak into a person's mind and "hear" their mental responses, as well.
My interpretation would be that the telepathy supernatural ability would allow the creature to project their thoughts and receive responses to those thoughts.
Using telepathy for anything other than direct communication changes the nature of many encounters. If you treat it like an "always on" detect thoughts then the telepath's opponents will have a much harder time sneaking up on them. Mind blank or similar spells would be necessary to avoid giving themselves away, because it's almost impossible not to "think", even when you're being perfectly silent.
With that kind of requirement, many encounters would just be too difficult, even for mid-level parties.
Telepathy does not allow you to detect people that you don't know are there. Telepathy does not let you read thoughts and/or rip information from peoples' minds.
What telepathy DOES do is allow you to broadcast your thoughts and feelings telepathically. If a non-telepath was so inclined, they could do the same towards a telepath, who is able to receive ONLY those thoughts and feelings that are so broadcast.
|
Contributor
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Telepathy does not allow you to detect people that you don't know are there. Telepathy does not let you read thoughts and/or rip information from peoples' minds.
What telepathy DOES do is allow you to broadcast your thoughts and feelings telepathically. If a non-telepath was so inclined, they could do the same towards a telepath, who is able to receive ONLY those thoughts and feelings that are so broadcast.
I concur.
|
|
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply detect thoughts in its entirety. I just meant to imply it's use with telepathy. I suppose what I should have said would be more along the lines of:
It's like a targeted detect thoughts for the purposes of thoughts the target wants to share, with the ability for the caster to project thoughts too.
That way, it doesn't imply an ability to use it to detect otherwise hidden creatures or the ability to take more information than is offered.
This is how I have always felt it worked.Telepathy does not allow you to detect people that you don't know are there. Telepathy does not let you read thoughts and/or rip information from peoples' minds.
What telepathy DOES do is allow you to broadcast your thoughts and feelings telepathically. If a non-telepath was so inclined, they could do the same towards a telepath, who is able to receive ONLY those thoughts and feelings that are so broadcast.
It's likely I think I can recall in AD&D baatezu (devils) had the telepathic ability to communicate and understand other creatures with int 3 or higher. I am just not a big fan of non-telepaths being drawns in a game of mindspeak, nor that having one in a party makes the entire party go in stealth mode / mindspeak.
Ofcourse it must be mentioned the monster races involved were never intended to be PCs really.
|
Contributor
|
I am just not a big fan of non-telepaths being drawns in a game of mindspeak, nor that having one in a party makes the entire party go in stealth mode / mindspeak.
Ugh...That would be awful. Wouldn't it have to be a kind of "hub and spoke" arrangement? Only the telepath would be able to "hear" everyone, but the other team members wouldn't be able to "hear" each other.
As far as I can tell, the telepath would have to relay the other team members' thoughts to everyone else.
As for a purely mental conversation with a telepathic creature, I'm okay with that. It's a fairly common trope in both fantasy and science fiction, but I understand why some folks might not want to deal with the ability that way.
I am just not a big fan of non-telepaths being drawns in a game of mindspeak, nor that having one in a party makes the entire party go in stealth mode / mindspeak.Ugh...That would be awful. Wouldn't it have to be a kind of "hub and spoke" arrangement? Only the telepath would be able to "hear" everyone, but the other team members wouldn't be able to "hear" each other.
As far as I can tell, the telepath would have to relay the other team members' thoughts to everyone else.
As for a purely mental conversation with a telepathic creature, I'm okay with that. It's a fairly common trope in both fantasy and science fiction, but I understand why some folks might not want to deal with the ability that way.
I've GM'd two campaigns in which one of my players took a level in Mindbender and acquired 100' telepathy, permanently. In each case the party wanted to use the ability as a mental conference call; I disabused them of this notion and insisted on the hub-and-spoke arrangement, with the Mindbender acting as a relay (and could therefore veto certain communications). I also ruled that a mental conversation had to be declared, and could only be initiated by the Mindbender, though 2 way communication was possible once the Mindbender directed a thought at a creature and continued to "listen" for a reply. The party worked out a signaling method that let the Mindbender know that someone wanted to think at him, and I did rule that the Mindbender could declare himself to be "listening" for a thought specifically directed at him, i.e. having initiated communication without "saying" anything.
Frustratingly helpful for stealth-mode for the party? Usually, as long as the Mindbender went along with it. Game-breaking? Hardly. <Looks significantly at the party members wearing heavy armor>
Ofcourse it must be mentioned the monster races involved were never intended to be PCs really.
Good effort, better luck next time.
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I concur.Telepathy does not allow you to detect people that you don't know are there. Telepathy does not let you read thoughts and/or rip information from peoples' minds.
What telepathy DOES do is allow you to broadcast your thoughts and feelings telepathically. If a non-telepath was so inclined, they could do the same towards a telepath, who is able to receive ONLY those thoughts and feelings that are so broadcast.
As do I... but I think the rules are too vaguely written here, and I want to get something official from this, or at least an opinion from a qualified member of the Paizo team. Alternatively, is there any conclusive reference to how this works with monster telepathy?