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Other than the DM going "Hold on Skipper, I don't care what the books say, you aren't making money," what is to stop 9th level wizards from ruling the world atop their piles of cash?
Example character:
Human 7 Wizard/2 Loremaster, point buy. Starts with 16 int. Raises to 18 with +2 racial bonus. +1 point to Int at 4th and 8th = 20. Crafts +4 Int headband by 9th level. Int = 24.
+1 Lore secret to skills. Take 4 ranks of craft (jewelry) for instance.
+12 Craft (Jewelry) skill (+4 ranks, + 7 int, +1 lore secret)
Suddenly the Loremaster can purchase raw materials (corundrum, uncut rubies, for instance), and cast Fabricate as a standard action, making (taking 10) valuable rubies.
Buy 2,000gp of raw materials, cast fabricate = 6,000gp of jewelry.
Sell at full price. Rinse and repeat.
Obviously this is just one example. It could be done out of anything, although weapons and armor would sell at half price, generally. But if you crafted anything that was effectively currency, you would break the game by 9th level.
Some ideas:
Craft (coinmaking)
Craft (gemcutting)
Craft (jewelry)
Craft (sculptures)
Craft (art)
Generally you can only sell goods at half their market price. The spell basically just lets you craft something instantaneously. So you could buy the raw materials for a sword and instantly create a masterwork sword.
I'm not sure where you got the math for making rubies from rubies, or how you turn 2k into 6k.
Basic Economics AKA supply and demand.
A glut of any commodity in a location such as gems, will make each of them less valuable. Also you have to look at how many people would or could afford to buy such items and whether the region can support their resale. The PCs might be able to sell one batch of gems at full price but will the shops of the area be looking for more at so soon? Most of this will fall to the DM to manage but it can keep the infinite money plans in check.
This has long been a touchy question across many boards.
The first part is the matter of selling price. I've always considered the half market price rule to be for loot and such being sold to a merchant who will then resell it. If a player makes the goods themselves and directly sells it, then they can charge full price. If this weren't so, then every maker of things in the game world would be selling at half the price listed in the books.
Nah because they have their own shop or place of business. If the players want to purchase a storefront and spend their downtime making baskets or some such fine, but then we get into far more real life simulationism than I prefer. You have overhead, and taxes, etc etc.
Alternately players could try to sell things directly, but without a storefront they have to seek out buyers, which is time intensive. Does your character want to be a door to door pottery salesman?
None of this is RAW just how I'd do it. It's certainly a valid way to keep players from juking the system.
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Other than the DM going "Hold on Skipper, I don't care what the books say, you aren't making money," what is to stop 9th level wizards from ruling the world atop their piles of cash?
Nothing... but likewise the wizard could simply earn money casting spells. I imagine there is huge demand for Wall of Stone in any economy. Build permanent structures... Stone shape likewise.
The game system isn't designed around a functioning economy and it's not about casting spells to sell things or sitting around making craft checks to make arrows to sell.
Other than the DM going "Hold on Skipper, I don't care what the books say, you aren't making money," what is to stop 9th level wizards from ruling the world atop their piles of cash?
Nothing. Except the following:
1. As the supply increased, their price would decrease.
2. As the demand for raw materials increased, their price would increase.
3. #1 and #2 would combine to eliminate any profit..
4. When word got out that the gems and jewelry were magically created, and therefore not "real" the demand for them would likely collapse. For a real world example, please note that man-made diamonds, perfect and flawless, have yet to supplant naturally occurring ones.
5. The various guilds would defend their livelihoods violently.
6. The aristocrats who exert political control and taxation over the various guilds and markets would defend their livelihoods violently.
7. Anyone who was wealthy enough to have savings, likely kept in the form of highly compact and portable gems and jewelry, would see their savings vanish, and would react violently. Are you seeing a theme?
8. The God(s) of Crafts and Craftsmen would probably react poorly to someone who took such shortcuts, destroyed the livelihoods of his or her worshipers, and made a mockery of those who actually practiced crafting, much the same way that certain dieties are violently opposed to the mockeries of life known as the undead. Did I say react poorly? I meant violently.
9. Craft: Coinmaking? Really? I mean...really?
10. PF and every other rpg is based on the assumption that players want to have exciting adventures. The rules are written to reflect this. Things that are peripheral to this pursuit get simplified. Why this should cause so much consternation (to some) is beyond me.
And finally:
I have no doubt that this is exactly what every single wizard in the world does when he or she reaches a certain level. They use that cash to bride officials, hire servants, build a tower, and create a nest egg. Those who continue to do so are quickly eliminated, either by one of the factors mentioned above, or simply by someone or something more powerful who covets such great wealth. An 8th level Wizard/ 2nd level Loremaster with 10 million gp is no match for a 20th level wizard in his or her skivies. Not to mention Dragons. Or all the other wizards who use this technique on the sly and wish to continue to do so.
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I don't see this being a big deal.
Raw material cost: 2000gp
List price of goods created: 6000gp
This is a 60% margin on raw goods. Lots, and I mean lots of stuff in the world has a higher margin than this. DeBeer's margins are probably higher than this, by a lot.
However, Bob the Mage, if he truly wants to make this a business is going to have other costs besides the rubies. He's probably going to have some place he does this work, and stores his unfinished and finished inventory. He might have a shop somewhere. He might market his goods to the nobility in all the neighboring cities, hiring carts, renting stalls in markets and bazaars, etc. He might have to deal with petty theft from his employees. He'd probably spend 80% of his time on the road, going to parties of the rich and wealthy, trying to convince them that "Bob's Rubies" are the best in town. He might need to have sales, marking them down to 75% of price to beat out Joe's Rubies. He doesn't want to handle direct sales? Well all those jewelry stores in town aren't going to buy at-cost from their supplier. They are probably hoping for 25-30% margin themselves.
If you look at any jewelry business, they have pretty good margins on the raw materials, but a decent amount of costs otherwise. When it comes down to everything all-in, your wizard is probably as profitable as any other jeweler or gem merchant. Or maybe, maybe has 5-10% better margins, letting him live a life comparable to any other jeweler in the kingdom, maybe with an extra servant, or a slightly larger manor than his competitors.
A couple of comments. First - this is why we have a DM. It is also why in MMO's that do not have a DM it costs 100's of gold to buy a single brick of coal to make a sword when it should be cost 1 gold for TONS of coal. Or if you are a tailor hundreds of goal for some thread....
Second - if you really want to break the bank just read this from the SRD...
Spellcasting = Caster level × spell level × 10 gp
The indicated amount is how much it costs to get a spellcaster to cast a spell for you. This cost assumes that you can go to the spellcaster and have the spell cast at his convenience (generally at least 24 hours later, so that the spellcaster has time to prepare the spell in question). If you want to bring the spellcaster somewhere to cast a spell you need to negotiate with him, and the default answer is no.
The cost given is for any spell that does not require a costly material component. If the spell includes a material component, add the cost of that component to the cost of the spell. If the spell has a focus component (other than a divine focus), add 1/10 the cost of that focus to the cost of the spell.
So even an average 3rd level caster can make about 200 GP a day forever without any up front costs or overhead. (The spellbook and spells scribed are free if he chooses them correctly at level up.) Assuming he can only hire out for half of his spells per day that is about 30~40K GP per year at 3rd level. And as you go up in level you can make a LOT more.
The DM is there for a reason. And if players want to play a merchant that is fine. I am sure the DM can come up with BBEG thieves or rival "old money" families to make the new party of merchants earn every GP they get... and then fight hard to keep it. /Grin
There are literally a handful of 9th+ level characters as NPCs in Golarion, few of them are wizards. Fewer still can execute the plan presented here. They are often in positions of economic comfort.
If at 9th level a PC wizard's only motivation is money, then they should stop adventuring and do this. Heck, this isn't even necessarily the most efficient way to do it, and they still need to find a buyer, which has interesting consequences.
In real life, several figures have claimed to be able to create gold through alchemy, which is not unlike your system here. They tended to find themselves imprisoned by the most powerful royalty in the region, or exiled and hiding their identity for that reason. This is why I imagine many high level casters use plane shift to go somewhere nice and then never return.
The moral: If you can make gold, they will come for you. They will use every means at their disposal to make sure you make gold for them. Then, they will learn your method and kill you.
The moral: If you can make gold, they will come for you. They will use every means at their disposal to make sure you make gold for them. Then, they will learn your method and kill you.
This has also happened to counterfeiters, who unlike the alchemists actually could make money.
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Well for PCs it isn't a big deal at all. They announce they want to sell all upteen thousand gems or baskets or whatever it is they want to sell. The GM says that is a GREAT idea, hand me your characters and make new characters since this is a game about adventuring. Since the PCs have chosen to become merchants they are now NPCs. You will update how well the new NPCs are doing in a few game years as they try to move their huge inventory of items.
If it was that easy everyone in the real world would be filthy rich as well.