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For the discerning Rogue who wants to reach out and put the touch on enemies:
Go human. Put your +2 ability bonus into Dexterity- you want this high. You'll start with two feats at first level instead of one. For those two feats, pick Weapon Finesse and Two Weapon Fighting.
Equipment-wise, get a Rapier, Kukri, and Chain Shirt.
For the discerning Rogue who wants to reach out and put the touch on enemies:
Go human. Put your +2 ability bonus into Dexterity- you want this high. You'll start with two feats at first level instead of one. For those two feats, pick Weapon Finesse and Two Weapon Fighting.
Equipment-wise, get a Rapier, Kukri, and Chain Shirt.
Rogues don't have access to the Kukri, you must be thinking of a Shortsword.
Ah, beginning as a Rogue .... If you are going for the Combat side of things, I would suggest going for the Tempest PrC from the Complete Warrior (or is it Adventurer?) for dual-wielding fun as well as bumping you AC and letting you have some fun shenanigans.
I'll check what manuals that you have listed, some old play-test notes and see if I can come up with a tolerable build. I do tend to create 'jack of all trades' characters, however, so I apologise in advance.
I just made a level 1 rogue..
dual short sword wielding human (with a shortbow backup), feats wep finesse and two-weapon wielding.
I'd probably not bother with rapier/SS, if you think you'll get high enough later for imp crit feats and such. (am on the fence about wep focus.. not sure if I'll take it or not. guess it depends on how much I miss 'tween now and then.. hehe).
You can improve your mileage with feats if you use two of the same weapon, the feats will apply to both instead of just one.
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Rogues don't have access to the Kukri, you must be thinking of a Shortsword.
Yeah, my bad. I was in a bit of a hurry to visit my girlfriend, so you can understand the jumble. =p
In any event, dualwield a rapier (main hand) and a shortsword (off hand) like HalfOrc said before. The shortsword's a light weapon, and rapiers are finessable despite being one-handed, so Weapon Finesse gets to be your friend here.
Take the Telling Blow feat from Player's Handbook II. This way, even if you're not flanking your enemy (or if he's not helpless!), you can still use your Sneak Attack. (Telling Blow allows you to Sneak Attack on a critical hit.) On that note, you may want to have your rapier enchanted with the Keen property as soon as possible.
To further enhance your ability to SERIOUSLY IRK your opponents, take the Bleeding Attack rogue talent at level 2. Bleeding Attack is one of those nice abilities that improve as you do- for every die of Sneak Attack damage you have, your target also takes that much bleed at the start of his turn until it's healed.
But I neglect one other important part of being a Rogue- your defense. Great feats to eventually take are Dodge (because +1 Defense never hurts!), the Two Weapon Fighting/Defense tree (so you'll have three attacks with your shortsword and +3 Defense), and Two Weapon Rend.
I'd say more, but you're still a first-level Rogue, and this message is getting long enough. =p
Since you got access to it, take 'oversized two weapon fighting' from complete adventurer, this will allow you to duel weild rapiers, as it considers one handed weapons to be light. Other then that I pretty much agree with what everyone else said.
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Depending on how you want combat to go, if you have a couple of fighter-types in your group, consider the Whip with weapon finesse option. Initially, you won't need improved trip/disarm if you use the 15ft reach, but the +2 to both CMB & CMD will be nice later on. Since your combat skills are nerf'ed compared to the fighters, you can often be more effective as a battlefield controller than damage-dealer. It'll cost an extra feat for EWP, but it's worth it's weight in platinum if used properly. Your fighter buddies will greatly appreciate facing off angainst opponenets that spend a good amount of time lying on the ground or with their weapon at their feet. And you can still carry a rapier/shortsword for your sneak attacks, drawing both if you are forced into close melee with a flank-mate. The over-sized two weapon feat is awesome for rapiers, especially if you gain additional weapon-specific feats that can be applied to both. Keep in mind that the rogue talents also allow you to substitute a combat feat for a talent, so if you are willing to give up a few of the rogue-specific abilities (or at least post-pone them), you can have nearly as many feats as the fighter.
Im very new to pathfinder and wanted some help making my character.
I want him to be a human/half elf TWFer (weapon dosen't matter as long as it is efficeint melee) who is good at acrobatics and stealth.
I have access to the books:
Core rulebook
Adv. playtest
Complete scoundrel, warrior and adventurer (3.5 d&d)
And besiary.
I have the roleplaying done, I just need help with the mechanics.
Thanks in advance!
I really suggest daggers. It does a little less dice damage but who cares, you can finesse them, and you can throw them. You don't qualify for weapon finesse at level 1 so this is my suggestion.
Human for extra feat and skillshuman(point blank shot for round 1 sneak attack before you can flank) 1 two weapon fighting 2(rogue talent) finesse rogue, 3 weapon focus(dagger) 4(rogue talent)combat trick quickdraw(2 thrown dagger sneak attacks round 1), 5 improved initiative, 6(rogue talent) surprise attack, 7 dodge, 8(rogue talent)trap spotter/fast stealth, 9 improved TWF, 10(rogue talent) crippling strike/opportunist
That's a pretty good start. You have ranged options but your main schtick is flank and sneak attack. Dex is your friend for attack and AC, helps those acrobatic checks to tumble around enemies into flanking position as well. That's just core stuff. You may have some better options in your splat books.
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Also, another nice set I've forgotten:
Combat Expertise (You won't be using this. It's prerequisite for what I'm gonna recommend, tho, so you will have to have it.)
Improved Feint (Reduces the time it takes to feint in combat to a move action. Successful feints result in your opponent losing his Dex bonus to Defense, and thus you can sneak attack him. Useful in case you don't have anybody to flank with!)
Greater Feint (Your opponent loses his Dexterity bonus to Defense until the start of your next turn. Not only does this allow for sneak attacking as above, it helps your friends out.)
This makes Charisma an equally important stat for you.
@Grasshopper: Forgot about that damn BAB +1 requirement for Finesse. And didn't think to use daggers- only downside to that is the 10' range on them. I guess Quick Draw's useful too. =D
Wow, the advice in this thread is all over the place.
First of all, you do qualify for weapon finesse at first level; the previous poster is thinking of the 3.5 rules. It changed in Pathfinder.
I think I'm going to be a bit contrarian and suggest that you focus on defense and HP. The thing I've noticed with melee rogues is that they tend to die a lot. As a twf melee rogue, your damage output is going to be just fine...I don't agree with previous suggestions to spend feats on things like oversided two weapon fighting.
I think you should prioritize your stats in this order: DEX, CON, STR, CHA, WIS, INT. You want your AC and HP as high as possible, and enough STR to wear a chain shirt and carry your gear.
With your feats, obviously focus on the TWF chain. Also, take toughness. At higher levels, you're going to want to use a lot of wands -- a wand of Shield, for example, is a great buy for you once you can reliably activate it, because it gives you a shield bonus to AC that you can have even when dual wielding. A Wand of Mirror Image is even better. So around 5th level or so you should plan on dumping a bunch of skill points into Use Magic Device, maxing it out from there on. Pick up a Circlet of Persuasion; it's a cheap boost to all your CHA skills, including Use Magic Device. You need magic to shore up your defenses at higher levels; UMD is not optional.
You're going to want to dual wield some combination of rapier, shortsword, and dagger. The big advantage with daggers is that they can be thrown. They're also concealable. The Rapier does the most damage due to its threat range, but I still think you should go with daggers. here's why:
What I see a lot with TWF rogues is this: They win initiative, move up, get a single attack on a flatfooted foe, do sneak attack damage once. Then they get full attacked by the foe (if it survived) and its fellow monsters, and they take a lot of damage and end up having to withdraw.
What you want to do is this:
Win initiative, throw a dagger...
Hah. I thought you needed +1 BAB for finesse. That is twice this morning I've been wrong. I need to get some Ginko for my memory I guess. Agreed you will be squishy if you TWF as a rogue and tasty if a halfling rogue. A few levels of fighter/barbarian combine well if you're not set on straight rogue and give you some better weapon options and possibly fast movement in medium armor.
Okay... Here's my suggestion, as I've shown it elsewhere on these boards...
Look at the pointy dagger dude
Just my input... Rogues are FUN! :-)
Can you give me details, grasshoper_ea?
Armor training 1 lets you move full speed in medium armor. Fighter and barb both give all martial weapons. Barb gives rage and uncanny dodge which stacks with your rogue. Both give better HP, worse skill points. The fighter could bring an interesting option into play with the extra feats. Sword and board sneak attack flanker
Could look like this
level 1 human fighter 3 feats, weapon focus longsword, improved shieldbash, two-weapon fighting
level 2 rogue
level 3 fighter weapon focus light shield, double slice
level 4 fighter (armor training 1 upgrade to medium armor)
level 5 rogue(talent, fast stealth or bleeding attack) dodge
level 6 rogue 2d6 sneak attack
level 7 fighter weapon spec longsword, weapon spec light shield
8-20 rogue or keep interchanging them.
for barbarian I would get a glaive and spring attack as previously mentioned. spring attack is good for avoiding damage also for running past melee combatants to get to squishies(probably more useful for the latter. Add spiked codpiece for when you can't use reach.
since he has access to complete warrior and scoundrel i would suggest rogue swashbuckler. because off a feat in scoundrel that allows lvls to stack for sneak attack, grace, and dodge bonus. also because you get weapon finesse at 1st lvl of swash. lets not forget the full BAB from swash either
since he has access to complete warrior and scoundrel i would suggest rogue swashbuckler. because off a feat in scoundrel that allows lvls to stack for sneak attack, grace, and dodge bonus. also because you get weapon finesse at 1st lvl of swash. lets not forget the full BAB from swash either
+1.
Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 3/Invisible Blade 5/Rogue 9
Get Daring Outlaw feat
What you get:
BAB +17/+12/+7/+2 - with Greater TWF that's 8 possible sneak attacks/rnd
Int bns to dmg.
SA +10d6 (more with items; see Magic Item Compendium)
Plus, you've got an option to feint if they've got (Improved) Uncanny Dodge. But don't focus on feinting - it's sub-optimal compared to TWF.
Also, i advise against going Oversized TWF. -2 to hit for an extra d2 damage? don't think so. You want to hit to apply your sneak attack. anything messing with that has to be really worth it. Just go 2 kukri (you get the martial weapon proficiency from your Swashbuckler lvls.
Also, don't forget the skill tricks in CScoundrel either, very cool.