I'm running a game were the PC's just started weilding the Morrowfall. They have not delved into the Nessian spiral yet but I have witnessed its power during some encounters. Any opinions out there?
I'm running a game were the PC's just started weilding the Morrowfall. They have not delved into the Nessian spiral yet but I have witnessed its power during some encounters. Any opinions out there?
I think it's fine.
Sunbeam is pretty rough. 4d6 plus blindness. Just remember that it's a lightning bolt-- it's not a targeted effect. 15 rounds or 5 4d6 blasts isn't that mean, either-- it's the blindness effect that's mean. It's the instant destruction of vampires or dark stalkers that's mean.
Sunburst is right out. 80 ft. radius burst? Almost every single combat after What Lies in Dust is a close-quarters combat. No maps can truly even FIT a Sunburst without spilling into the room the PCs occupy. If the enemies are within 160ft of the allies, the PCs have to hit themselves with sunburst if they plan on hitting enemies with it. Remember that sunburst is like every other mage area of effect spell-- it doesn't discriminate between enemy and ally. The unlucky PCs could very well sunburst a group of enemies only to all be permanently blinded. It happened to our group. It sucked!
Also, the PC that holds the Morrowfall can only do this once per day. Sunburst or sunbeam. Besides that, 3/day searing light at CL 15th is no big deal, and a DC 13 Blindness is, well, not as strong as well.
I'm going to be honest-- besides dusting two vampires, the Morrowfall got the most use from me as a permanent CL 15th daylight dispenser. I tied it to my belt and dispelled the hell out of darkness and deeper darkness with it.
I've been thinking about the Morrowfall and Totemrisk, and I've come to the conclusion that the stats for them are all wrong. For one thing, in the backstory, Bisby's exposure to the Morrowfall drives him over the edge and into the paranoid haunt that he is. And Totemrisk has only two powers, one of which can only be used by a vampire, but every day its powers are used, the user grows more and more cursed until he turns into a vampire. Just how many times did Sivanshen need to use darkness?
My solution? Give Morrowfall a similar corruption system to Totemrisk. Maybe each use of an SLA gives a point of Wisdom damage/drain, a DC determined by the level of the spell used. And Totemrisk gets more SLAs that are thematically similar to Morrowfall's--maybe shadow conjuration/evocation.
|
I.T. is right on the money.
Sunburst is handy, WHEN you can use it.
Sunbeam is nice, especially for the various vampires / vampire spawn in the game.
other than that, it's just a shiny piece of bling on our cleric's chest.
The most game-changing ability is really the "Get rid of Darkness" effect....now the PC's don't have to worry about getting shanked in the dark anymore
-t
I too was slightly bothered by the fact that despite driving Bisby mad, the artifact has no intelligence, ego, or mechanical way of affecting someone who uses it too much. I thought at the least, there should be some sort of conflict with the artifact that would drive a person to hide it away, just like Bisby did.
Overall, I'm not worried about the item's power with two notable exceptions: the vampires in chapter 5 and 6. What I want to be a good, multi-round, memorable fight is gonna get turned into an insta-kill, one-round, you-got-punked fest. I might have the Morrowfall's powers be negated by the Totemtrix once it gets within a certain proximity of it so the fight will at least be memorable.
I was in the party with Ice Titan. all it ever did was give day light and make easy encounters even easier. Like a responsible pc he didn't use it on the vampire boss fights. He knows using it to murder the big villain takes the fun for the DM away. Only really used it on minions. The other punk vampire was basically one rounded by the cavalier. Challenge, CRIT hit CRIT. thats all she wrote. maybe our cavalier should get weaker as he gets close to enemies. lol. Making the Morrowfall drive you crazy is stupid it is made by a super good and holy god. Why would the god give his clerics a item that drives them nuts and makes the paranoid. Makes no sense. I would chalk what happened to Bisby to flaws in his own character rather than the item. People can be crazy paranoid without supernatural interference.
|
The group I run has used it effectively and I haven't seen it become a game-breaking element at all. I have made the group's mage who has had it the most fail a couple will saves and now he is enthralled by the item in regards to not letting anyone else touch it. I think the Morrowfall wants to get back to its darker twin and the Aohl wants to be free of it so the character's one goal now is to do the Morrowfall's bidding. They should encounter Sivenshin next session so this drama will come to its conclusion one way or the other.
I too was slightly bothered by the fact that despite driving Bisby mad, the artifact has no intelligence, ego, or mechanical way of affecting someone who uses it too much. I thought at the least, there should be some sort of conflict with the artifact that would drive a person to hide it away, just like Bisby did.
Overall, I'm not worried about the item's power with two notable exceptions: the vampires in chapter 5 and 6. What I want to be a good, multi-round, memorable fight is gonna get turned into an insta-kill, one-round, you-got-punked fest. I might have the Morrowfall's powers be negated by the Totemtrix once it gets within a certain proximity of it so the fight will at least be memorable.
If Ilnerik follows through with his strategy (unseen servant/invis and move and then haste), there's no way he can die in round one. He has a +10 initiative modifier-- if you're really worried for the boss being able to actually act in a fight, just fudge his init roll as a 15.
Ilnerik fails his reflex save versus Sunbeam, with haste, on a 1.
If Ilnerik fails his reflex save versus Sunburst, again, with haste, he's rolled a 1.
Will the PCs be that lucky to make their saves and not be blinded against the monster with sneak attack? If they use sunburst, will Faerlyn and Glynnis be so lucky as to make their reflex save (DC22 at a -2...) to not be blinded and more than likely instantly killed? I'd assume Faerlyn is a lv2 commoner and Glynnis is a lv1 commoner-- so Glynnis has 4 hp and Faerlyn has 8. The party has a distinct chance to blow sunburst, blind half of their party, outright kill Faerlyn and Glynnis and probably even Jarvis, and leave Ilnerik completely untouched. And then they can't do that again.
It ain't that rough, especially versus Ilnerik, I'm telling you.
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly, if the PCs get to the final battle against Ilnerik and the vampires in part 5 and the Morrowfall lets them plow through the vampires... that's actually okay. Sometimes a sudden and overwhelming victory for the PCs is even more memorable than the battle where they almost died. And certainly allowing the PCs to finally encounter Ilnerik and, with some lucky initiative rolls and swift thinking and some lucky rolls (or unlucky rolls on the GM's part for Ilnerik) to win a battle against this bad guy is not bad at all.
In fact, the whole POINT of the Morrowfall is to give the PCs a significant advantage against Ilnerik and his minions. If the PCs feel like the artifact doesn't give them a significant advantage, then all of "What Lies In Dust" suddenly feels less like a key and important part of the AP and more like a speed bump.
Don't be afraid to let the PCs kick ass now and then! :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Don't be afraid to let the PCs kick ass now and then! :-)
Especially after that triceratops.
. Why would the god give his clerics a item that drives them nuts and makes the paranoid. Makes no sense. I would chalk what happened to Bisby to flaws in his own character rather than the item. People can be crazy paranoid without supernatural interference.
Well, they fact that the thing is split in two and no longer works like its originally supposed to indicates to me that it is indeed possible for it to be responsible for what happened to Bisby and Sivanshin. There is nothing that indicates within the entire text that the thing was made by a "good" god. Indeed, I thought the whole purpose of the artifact was to keep two dangerous forces in check with each other. There is obviously repercussions for splitting the thing and carrying just one half (not both) as indicated by Sivanshin's fate. Why wouldn't it work both ways?? Making the Morrowfall drive you crazy might seem stupid, but that's exactly what happened to Bisby, at least by the written text.
My group stopped last session just about to encounter Ilnerik. I'm very sure they forgot they have the morrowfall as they have not used it once. They also did not prepare for a fight with a vampire... so it's going to be a fun session this week.
It's not fair to use them as a comparison, I'm pretty sure no one in the party knows they are even fighting vampires. When I had to stop playing we all thought they where just rather resilient people...go go lack of Knowledge skills.
The party was told they were fighting vampires, multiple times, by multiple sources. Really, the group just doesn't normally pay much attention to what I say if it does not involve hitting things or looting things.
I'm sure some of you will find this absolutely hilarious.
My party has just finished the Infernal Syndrome...with a few complications...
(Take into account that each order is modified for very little loopholes, I'm just being as brief as I can be for telling the story)
The Morrowfall is given to Jerusen through the DL, and when they wake up in the morning and take account of their items, sure enough they find the Morrowfall is missing. The ranger remarks how that is odd. They succeed in Sense Motive that the ranger isn't really surprised, but instead of trying to, I don't know, QUESTION the ranger, they decide to cast Charm Person on him...which fails btw. They dismiss the fact that they have a dominated party which they know ooc, but their argument is that the ranger is a new character, which they wouldn't know how he acts anyway. Fair enough...
Another night comes...they rest in the Nessian Spiral. The elf sneaks out and reports to the DL who then takes him to see Jerusen. Jerusen then orders him to tell him about the capabilities of the party, strengths and weaknesses, etc. The ranger divulges what he knows. Jerusen then strengthens previous orders to observe the party's activities, report back at night, and if anyone becomes suspicious of his domination, to kill them.
So, he sneaks back in, only to wake up two party members. The party members ask him what he's doing, and he bluffs that he was scouting..they fail their sense motive checks and go back to sleep. They adventure for another day, but decide to sleep at the CoW hideout. The elf sneaks out and reports to Jerusen. Jerusen, by this time, knows about the contract. He orders the ranger to leave the contract behind a certain rock around the outside of the Nessian Spiral and to proceed with his normal orders from there.
Now...you might think that he wouldn't have access to the contract...that he would have to confront the person with the contract and try to persuade them to let him carry it...that didn't have to happen, because HE had the contract! Oh yes! They never took the contract from him. So as they neared the Nessian Spiral, he "scouted" the area and left the contract under the specified rock, to be torn up and destroyed by Zol a little later.
So they continue through the Nessian Spiral and come across the Kolyarut...it demands the contract. So they're like, "Take out the contract," to the ranger. The ranger says he doesn't have it. They move away from the Kolyarut and FINALLY confront the ranger to discover that he is indeed dominated and proceed to enter a short combat with him before they dispel the enchantment.
Ya...they don't know HOW bad this screws them in book 5. I co-GM this game because of the size of the party, but we have agreed that Ilnerik has the Morrowfall and has disposed of it as best he could. Which means, there is no way to find it without...IDK...Divination magic! Which none of them ever use! Don't you just find this both wrong and hilarious!
Fantastic use of Domination! It can be so much fun if used properly. (rather than just "kill the party")
|
I just had an idea - the Morrowfall caused Bisby to get very paranoid, to the point of basically killing himself.
How about make the Morrowfall give the Paranoid quality under the insanity rules in the Game Master Guide's Advanced Topics chapter. You could have it slowly go from mild to moderate to severe.
Perhaps add a DC to avoid the paranoia. Eventually someone holding it will fail a save.
My players are just about to go into the basement where it is. I was worried about them wanting to keep the Morrowfall and try to find a different way to destroy the Totemrix.
This way it explains what happened to Bisby and some of the weird stuff in Delvehaven and also gives the players an incentive to not use it too much.
Of course, overly paranoid players might decide to stick it in a bag of holding and never use it. Up to them, I guess.
Fantastic use of Domination! It can be so much fun if used properly. (rather than just "kill the party")
** spoiler omitted **
Oh, two party members died btw, but they chalked that up to the denizens of the Nessian Spiral or because those characters had been talking about leaving beforehand. Just forgot to mention it :P
Oh boy...
Sounds like another Westcrown is getting the Fallout DC treatment.
When big L shows up, please regale us with the devastation!
They managed to get to him within 24 hours. By reading the contract and finally getting the Domination off the ranger, they knew they had to power through the Kolyarut.
The Kolyarut actually did well...AT FIRST! The wizard decided to pop in front of the party and cast lightning bolt at it, but it's SR negated it. Then the Kolyarut burst into the hallway in front of the wizard, which just so happened to be at just before the bend, blocking line of sight from the other casters at the back. Melee couldn't get around him and were fighting him 1v1. Vampiric Touch was devastating them.
Finally, the fighter of all people had the inclination of running away and going in all stealth like to get the party in and surround the guy. After that, he got a few nice hits in, but he pretty much went down like a sack of bricks.
The medusa called the fighter's bluff that she was the mayor and petrified her. The rest of the party came in averting their eyes at first and closed their eyes throughout rest of the battle to avoid the gaze. The wizard got a suggestion on her to cover her face with the veil. After that, the battle pretty much went on in the party's favor.
Liebdaga also went down like a sack of bricks thanks to the fail of a fireball (good reflex saves) and the staggered effect on him.
What I'm really looking forward to now though is Ilnerik...MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
|
Honestly, if the PCs get to the final battle against Ilnerik and the vampires in part 5 and the Morrowfall lets them plow through the vampires... that's actually okay. Sometimes a sudden and overwhelming victory for the PCs is even more memorable than the battle where they almost died. And certainly allowing the PCs to finally encounter Ilnerik and, with some lucky initiative rolls and swift thinking and some lucky rolls (or unlucky rolls on the GM's part for Ilnerik) to win a battle against this bad guy is not bad at all.
In fact, the whole POINT of the Morrowfall is to give the PCs a significant advantage against Ilnerik and his minions. If the PCs feel like the artifact doesn't give them a significant advantage, then all of "What Lies In Dust" suddenly feels less like a key and important part of the AP and more like a speed bump.
Don't be afraid to let the PCs kick ass now and then! :-)
James, looking at Ilnerik's stats, I don't see energy drain as part of this slam damage. Should the regular 2 level drain accompany each slam attack? (lower we see energy drain DC 25 but can you plse confirm each hit comes with 2 level drain? also, what about his tactics? does vital strike means not only doubling the slam damage dice but also the number of negative levels? i.e. 4 levels per hit? what about whirlwind attack if he say, uses it successfully on 4 PCs... do we get 4 x 2 levels drained (total 8 levels for him so 40 hit points back) or do we get 4 x 4 = 16 levels = 80 hit points back?
|
|
Reading the Vital Strike and Whirlwind Attack feat entries, it appears that you can't combine both feats together.
Reading the Bestiary again, I also came upon this: (bold mine)
"Energy Drain (Su): A creature hit by a vampire’s slam
(or other natural weapon) gains two negative levels. This
ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the
number of attacks a vampire makes."
So we then have that Whirlwind Attack must then only apply energy drain on the first creature hit that round.
I'm opened to comments and suggestions though. If some of you think this is vastly overpowered, I'm willing to hear it. 4 levels heals a vamp for 20 hp as well... (Edit: but with the PCs having the Morrowfall and being quite adept at using it by now, I'm not too worried that 4 levels is too much...)
|
|
Now, there is still the following question though: does Vital Strike doubles the amount of levels drained via energy drain? (i.e. 4 levels instead of 2). IMC, I'm going ahead with a "yes" since when the vamp is Vital Striking he's only doing one attack anyway
I do not think that Vital Strike doubles the negative levels, as they are an added effect.
Rulebook pg 136 "Roll the damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together, but do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming) or precision-based damage (suck as sneak attack). This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit (although other damage bonuses are multiplied normally)."
As it makes it clear that the normal extra damage sources are NOT multiplied, it would make sense that added abilities such as negative levels should not be multiplied. Vital Strike only multiplies the damage dice.