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I've been inspired to try out an action points system in my games, and I'm trying to decide which one to use. Basically, it comes down to how they are acquired, how thy are spent, and what they do.
Versions I've seen:
- How acquired -
1) Fixed amount gained each session/day
2) Fixed amount gained each character level
3) Gained as rewards for roleplaying
4) Gained by taking specific feats or items
- How Spent -
1) Before a roll only
2) Before and/or after a roll
3) Before and/or after a roll, but are more effective before than after
- What they do -
1) Reroll (or roll twice) and take the better result
2) Add +20 (or +X) to a d20 roll
3) Add +1d6 (or +1dX) to a roll
4) Roll a d30 (or other large die/dice) instead of a d20
5) Allow non-die roll effects, such as gaining extra uses of spells/abilities, or breaking/bending the rules in a thematic way, or slightly altering the plot of the game.
What version do you use/have you used in the past? Which has worked best for you?
I like my own system (of course!) because it is simple. If there were more uses or more regulations, I don't think we'd ever remember to use them in play.
At any time the player can spend a Luck Point to add or subtract 1d6 from any roll made by his PC or any willing allied PC. A Luck Point can also subtract 1d6 from an enemy damage roll. A luck point can also negate an automatic failure, such as a fumble, by a PC or allied PC, and can negate an enemy critical success. In these cases, the results become normal successes or failures.
This effect can be used just before the roll is made, or immediately after the roll result is announced, but before any other further unrelated rolls are made. You may spend any number of Luck Points on a given roll, and you may roll Luck Points one at a time until the desired outcome is achieved or you run out of Luck Points.
Using Luck Points does not require any type of action. Luck Points may be used by unconscious, dying, or even dead characters who were involved in the current scene. Once spent, a Luck Point disappears for ever and ever.
Each PC and important NPC receives one Luck Point at character creation. You gain one additional Luck Point once per level, and you can gain any number of bonus Luck Points through in-game actions. Acts sometimes rewarded with Luck Points include but are not limited to:
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The "best" Action point system is the one that encourages PCs to act the way you want. I personally, give out one per session which gives a static +5 to any d20 roll, after the roll and even after the effect is fine. I give out more for good roleplaying, keeping the game moving, and making things fun for everyone. Regardless, they always reset to one at the beginning of the next game session. I want to see them used, so I make them expire.
I like using action points like this because it's a substitute for XP bonuses. It's a power boost. it's usable immediately for instant gratification. It's immediately useful, unlike an ad hoc xp award. Unlike XP, it won't cause "better" players to pull ahead in levels.
But that's for my group. Your group might be a little more sensitive to perceived favoritism. +5 might be too much or not enough for your players. They might like a random roll instead of a static number. It's really group dependent, so you might need to experiment for a session or two. Bigger bonuses should be rarer and harder to earn. The trick is to find the level that will keep them hungry for points, without frustrating them.
But that's for my group. Your group might be a little more sensitive to perceived favoritism.
Great point.
To avoid this, I tend to award things that other players point out, instead of picking things myself (except on occasion). If they go a whole session and nobody got an award, at the end of the session I ask them to vote for an "MVP" award.
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Here's what I'm currently considering:
Each PC gets 1 Plot Point at the start of each session, and can earn more by roleplaying well or contributing to the game in any significant way (sharing food, making a good joke, etc).
PCs can spend points before a roll to add an extra die to the roll. One point adds a d2, two points adds a d4, all the way up to a d12 for six points (going to a d20 breaks the pattern and gets too swingy). You can spend them after a roll too, but in that case each point only adds 1 to the total. You must spend the points before you know if you've succeeded.
You may also use plot points to influence the plot or break the rules in some way, but that's entirely up to GM discretion.
At the end of each session, unspent plot points may be cashed in for 10 xp each. Either way, they disappear and you start again with one point at the beginning of next session.
This is very similar to the system used in the Cortex System RPG by Margaret Weis Games (my favorite non-d20 system). By making the effects of the points less powerful, I'm free to be more generous with them, and by giving little incentive to hoard them, my players are more likely to use them rather than save them up for a big blast.
i love the star wars saga edition force point/destiny point system, force points add a +1d6 to certain rolls and by spending destiny points you could do really big things such as auto crit on an enemy.
if you want to know all the rules system for this let me know and i will post them.
I use a feat. Actually, seven feats. And my "fate points" are very powerful. Nothing so mundane as adding a small bonus to one roll. Well, actually they can be used for such things, but they can also be used to change death to life, or to dramatically change the character's situation in the game.
I have gone with feats because I think some people are just lucky, or favored by the gods, while others have to make their own luck.
Giving all the PCs equal fate points trivializes them - everybody has them so they become a game mechanic rather than a flavorful way to express being the special favorite of the gods...
Likewise, I prefer to encourage good roleplaying in other ways. Being particularly witty with the barmaid doesn't translate into one extra chance to dive out of the dragon's fire a week later.
Note that the only thing I don't allow is for players to use fate points to alter the plot of the adventure. If the quest is to figure out who killed the king, then they cannot spend a fate point to luckly stumble into the assassin's home, or fortuitously find the signed assassination letter that the assassin dropped when he escaped. The fates are not that generous.
Note: this is the 7th feat, the names of the other 6 are listed in the prerequisites, in order they can be taken. Each feat is good for two fate points and each feat requires 3 levels (Luck at level 3+, Auspice at level 6+, etc.)
You are epically lucky.
Prerequisites: Luck, Auspice, Fortune, Karma, Fate, Destiny, Level 21+
Benefit: When you learn this feat and each time you gain a level after learning this feat you gain 14 Fate Points. You may never have more than 14 Fate Points – when you gain a level your total resets to 14. Fate points can be used in two fashions. Any time you roll a die and do not like the results, you may spend 1 Fate Point to reroll that die. If you use a Fate Point in this fashion, you may reroll as often as it takes to get a result more favorable than your first roll. For example, if you rolled a 12 on a saving throw and spend a Fate Point, you may reroll. If the reroll is a 9, you may automatically reroll again, and keep rerolling until you roll better than the original 12. The other use for Fate Points is to effectively alter reality to change any one circumstance to be more favorable to you. This use is more open to GM interpretation. Some examples: if you fall off a cliff and should die from the fall, you can spend a Fate Point to catch a protruding root near the cliff top and climb to safety or to perhaps fall into a haystack at the base of the cliff. If you are in a dungeon and spring a trap, you could spend a Fate Point to have the trap jam, or perhaps to have the trap previously disabled by some unnamed and forgotten rogue at some earlier date. If you open a chest and find it empty, you could spend a Fate Point to fill the chest with gold (well, maybe not "fill", or a magic item, or some such suitable treasure, perhaps left there by a previous denizen of the area who left or died while the treasure remained forgotten in the chest. There are endless uses for Fate Points, all up to the DM.
Note: DMs remember your player spent one or more valuable feats for this ability, so make their Fate Points count for something; don’t rob them or belittle the value of this feat – they could have taken something else very useful, so make sure their choice of this feat is justified.
Special: This feat should not be allowed to reverse mission critical plot elements. Players should not be able to use this feat to suddenly find the artifact that they were questing to retrieve, or find the lost key to the ancient tomb they have been searching for. Whatever the DM is using as an adventure storyline should not be affected by this feat – The fates don’t work this way, major story obstacles will still be obstacles. Players still have to adventure and solve the mysteries of the unknown on their own.
Credit: goes to the Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing Game for inspiring this feat.
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No matter what combination of the above you decide to go with, add some roleplaying fun to each "use" of said points.
Make your players describe in detail what they're characters are doing to pull off these, "feats of strength". (sorry, I've been watching a lot of Seinfeld lately). No description, no spending of the points.
This should get them into a mode of more descriptive and maybe even some cooperative storytelling.
I've just recently added Action Points into my game, basically as a player narrative control device.
A player gets 2 Action points per rest period (regained similar to regaining spell slots).
An action point can be spent to force a reroll, either one you've just done, or one the DM just did. If another player doesn't have any left, you can't spend yours on him unless it directly affects you (heal check on you, etc). It's a representation of your luck.
I've added Skill Tricks into the game (Complete Scoundrel). Instead of only once per encounter or every minute or so, you are limited to having at least 1 Action Point remaining to continue using any Skill Trick you know.
You can spend an Action Point to gain one use of a Feat or Skill Trick you don't currently know, but qualify for.
You can spend an Action Point to gain a one-time casting of a spell on your class spell list, that you could qualify for casting. This does require the use of a spell slot (effectively swapping the spell memorized, or adding to spells known for spontaneous casting, for that one moment).
I have also included a feat that grants 1 additional Action Point per rest (repeatable). If a player wants to make a character based on luck.
In order to use Skill Tricks, the "bad guys" (NPCs) have Action Points as well. BBEGs and Important NPCs have 2, just like the players. Cohorts and semi-important or "miniboss" NPCs have 1 (usually to maintain skill tricks, or as a last desperate effort).
Mooks and non-intelligent creatures (unthinking undead, animals, etc) do not have action points.
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Ultimately, what I've found is that while this puts a little extra power in the hands of the players, it really just makes my "job" as DM easier.
I find that I rarely feel the need to fudge anything anymore, since the players have their chance at changing the flow of the game. And I have an agreed upon mechanic that will occasionally let me do the same (a BBEG turning a potential crit into a reroll, thus allowing his escape like I had planned, etc).
This has been a good change so far, for those of us who find enjoyment in the "Storytelling" aspect of gaming.
If luck still goes awry even after the reroll (or alternative use), then we feel more accepting of the situation, since we've had our chance at re-writing fate.
I just use the one from the eberron campaign setting works fine when the players remember they have them LOL
Jagyr, you did pick up the Rewarding Roleplaying from Spes Magna, right?
I just use the one from the eberron campaign setting works fine when the players remember they have them LOL
I also like the Eberron system because:
- you get lots of them, so you don't have to worry about saving them up for an emergency that never comes (although, as Immortalis says, not all players realise that)
- you can use them after you roll but before you know what the result is, so you can make a pretty good guess when it'll be useful to use one; they're rarely wasted, in my experience
On the other hand, 4E action points seem quite dull to me; getting an extra attack is nice, but not very exciting.
I have mixed feelings about the "reward for roleplaying" system; in my experience that means that some players get way more than they end up using (which tends to dilute their value), and some players never get any.
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Jagyr, you did pick up the Rewarding Roleplaying from Spes Magna, right?
Actually, no, for two reasons. One is matter of personal opinion that I won't discuss lest I offend someone, but the second reason is more important: I realized I already owned a game system (or two) that has a huge focus on rewarding good play with in-game benefits, and my players are already used to that system.
Jagyr, you did pick up the Rewarding Roleplaying from Spes Magna, right?Actually, no, for two reasons. One is matter of personal opinion that I won't discuss lest I offend someone, but the second reason is more important: I realized I already owned a game system (or two) that has a huge focus on rewarding good play with in-game benefits, and my players are already used to that system.
Out of curiosity, what are those two?
Thanks!
I have mixed feelings about the "reward for roleplaying" system; in my experience that means that some players get way more than they end up using (which tends to dilute their value), and some players never get any.
This depends on the group, but also, my group does very little dramatic roleplaying compared to some. You'll notice that my luck point awards at the top of the thread are not awards for dramatic flair (which could get a luck point if the other players decided so), but rather for making decisions in-character.
But why limit it to dramatic RP, or in-character decision making? I also reward OOC decision making, and any sort of positive behavior. Well, truthfully, I don't really award the points at all, the players award each other at my instigation.
My system would employ something similar to what was found in Ars Magica. Basically, your character has "Confidence" points which you spend to to get a re-roll.
Your typical character has 3 points to use. If a player decides to use a point he declares the use and, if the roll is successful, keeps the point. If he fails on his roll, he loses the point.
First point use: Reroll at par.
Second point use: Reroll with a -1 penalty.
Third (final) point use: Reroll with -3 penalty.
It's basically a mulligan within the rules plus a side effect. It also represents a character's slow loss of confidence in his abilities over time (use). You gain a second (and third) "chance", but they're harder.
Points are only regained after a lull or restive period for the character (many days of rest, not 8 hours of rest). This represents enough time for a character to regain his "confidence".
I give out a lot of hero points. In my tabletop game it's two per session and one for each mission goal accomplished. In the PBP it's more awards for good play.
Among other things they give +2 on a d20 roll, and you can spend up to 5 at a time. (You can use them to reroll too, but that costs 5 points.) The advantages is that they can be used to encourage good roleplaying and heroic (cinematic) deeds (like getting that 42 Diplomacy check that convinces the dragon not to eat you (it just took all their stuff and let them walk away in their underwear)).
It also takes the edge of bad rolls, so that you can have more challenging encounters. I don't know if it's the best system, but I stick to what I am familiar with.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I still run a version of D&D 3.5.
I've gone the opposite direction from Pathfinder when it comes to experience points. Pathfinder eliminated them as a resource, using them to track character progress and nothing else. In my campaign, they are a resource that players accumulate in order to "buy" several things, including class levels.
One of the common purchases is hero points, which work much like they do in the "Eberron" campaign: mainly adding 1d6 to a d20 roll, or stablizing a dying character, or allowing another use of a class ability that's usable only so many times a day, or casting a prepared spell without costing its spell slot.
I have been very pleased with the "pay to use" hero points. They're most always there for players who are afraid to fail, but players who don't use them are rewarded with more experience points to spend on levels or other, long-lasting things.
I still run a version of D&D 3.5.
I've gone the opposite direction from Pathfinder when it comes to experience points. Pathfinder eliminated them as a resource, using them to track character progress and nothing else. In my campaign, they are a resource that players accumulate in order to "buy" several things, including class levels.
How much do you charge for one? I could see either using a lot or none, depending on the cost.
I was using the Eberron system, with some additional uses...
- burn an action point to use a skill you don't have one time.
- re-roll a failed saving throw
- negate a save or die failure
- others that I can't think of right now.
I added feats for all weapon similar to the Valenar scimitar feat.
I also changed it to session, since tracking Action points from game to game with 2-3 weeks between was cumbersome.
I still run a version of D&D 3.5.
I've gone the opposite direction from Pathfinder when it comes to experience points. Pathfinder eliminated them as a resource, using them to track character progress and nothing else. In my campaign, they are a resource that players accumulate in order to "buy" several things, including class levels.
One of the common purchases is hero points, which work much like they do in the "Eberron" campaign: mainly adding 1d6 to a d20 roll, or stablizing a dying character, or allowing another use of a class ability that's usable only so many times a day, or casting a prepared spell without costing its spell slot.
I have been very pleased with the "pay to use" hero points. They're most always there for players who are afraid to fail, but players who don't use them are rewarded with more experience points to spend on levels or other, long-lasting things.
So they're similar to Legend Points from Earthdawn then?
Purchase skills, feats (talents), action points (karma), ability scores, etc?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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In my campaign, they are a resource that players accumulate in order to "buy" several things, including class levels.
How much do you charge for one? I could see either using a lot or none, depending on the cost.
50 xp times (1 + current character level). So, for example, a 4th level fighter can buy an action point for 50 (1+4) = 250 xp.
If I were trying to model this into Pathfinder rules, it would be trickier, because experience points don't scale the same way in the two game systems. The equivalent costs for an Action Point in the PF RPG, Medium Progression, would be as follows:
1st Level Pathfinder character = 200 xp
2nd Level Pathfinder character = 225
3rd Level Pathfinder character = 275
4th Level Pathfinder character = 375
5th Level Pathfinder character = 480
6th Level Pathfinder character = 700
7th Level Pathfinder character = 925
8th Level Pathfinder character = 1350
9th Level Pathfinder character = 1675
10th Level Pathfinder character = 2750
11th Level Pathfinder character = 3550
12th Level Pathfinder character = 5150
13th Level Pathfinder character = 7000
14th Level Pathfinder character = 10,175
So they're similar to Legend Points from Earthdawn then?
I don't know, Xaaon; I've never played Earthdawn. But from your description, it sounds similar.
I sometimes use character flaws in my games, when they come up in play, they can trigger rewards such as extra APs.
In my campaign, they are a resource that players accumulate in order to "buy" several things, including class levels.How much do you charge for one? I could see either using a lot or none, depending on the cost.50 xp times (1 + current character level). So, for example, a 4th level fighter can buy an action point for 50 (1+4) = 250 xp.
Hmm. In Eberron, a 4th level character gets 7 action points per level. So in your system that would be 1750 xp; almost half of the experience needed to get from level 4 to level 5.
In that case, I doubt I'd bother unless I really thought I was going to die.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hmm. In Eberron, a 4th level character gets 7 action points per level. So in your system that would be 1750 xp; almost half of the experience needed to get from level 4 to level 5.
In that case, I doubt I'd bother unless I really thought I was going to die.
Well, yes, but Eberron gives out a whole lot of Action Points! It still bases its math on the basis that you're dealing with 13 level-appropriate encounters per level, so you're using an Action Point in half the encounters. Compare that to someone playing well enough that she hardly ever needs to spend an Action point, and yes, the Action Point addict is going to be progressing in levels more slowly.
(Not as slowly as you might think, though, since low-level party members receive more experience than their higher-level colleagues in D&D 3.5.)
And, one could argue, liberal use of Action Points allows characters to face larger, more dire threats and come out smiling, which compensates a great deal for the experience point drain.
I use the aforementioned Rewarding Roleplaying. I award Action Points for:
(1) Players meeting their own defined roleplaying objectives.
(2) Successful completion of a significant part of an adventure, with significance and part both being defined by me.
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Out of curiosity, what are those two?
Thanks!
The two systems I was referring to are Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, which uses Hero Points, and the Cortex System RPG (the system behind the Serenity/Firefly, Demon Hunters, Supernatural, and Battlestar Galactica RPGs) which uses Plot Points similar to what I discussed above.
Cortex also rewards Plot Points for being negatively affected by your character's Complications (flaws). When I implement my system, I think I'll have each player come up with 2 or 3 defining characteristics for their PCs in order to better judge roleplaying rewards.
Out of curiosity, what are those two?
Thanks!
The two systems I was referring to are Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, which uses Hero Points, and the Cortex System RPG (the system behind the Serenity/Firefly, Demon Hunters, Supernatural, and Battlestar Galactica RPGs) which uses Plot Points similar to what I discussed above.
Cortex also rewards Plot Points for being negatively affected by your character's Complications (flaws). When I implement my system, I think I'll have each player come up with 2 or 3 defining characteristics for their PCs in order to better judge roleplaying rewards.
I would say that Mark's system is similar to what you described with the Cortex system's Plot points. Since his is geared toward Pathfinder rules, it actually may be what you're looking for as a base and skin it from there.
Well, yes, but Eberron gives out a whole lot of Action Points!
And that's exactly what I like about Eberron; they're fairly weak, but you get plenty of them so there's no need to hoard them and you don't feel like you're wasting them if they don't work. I generally dislike abilities that are only used once in a blue moon; mediocre abilities that are only used once in a blue moon are even more disappointing to me. YMMV, of course!
Our group has a problem beating around the bush, getting detracted, and taking forever to make a decision, meaning that we often don't get enough accomplished in a session. I've been contemplating awarding points for starting your characters turn within 30 seconds, (Using an hour glass or something) in a hopes to get people moving a bit. I already have a system in place at the moment though so i cannot try this out yet.
Our group has a problem beating around the bush, getting detracted, and taking forever to make a decision, meaning that we often don't get enough accomplished in a session. I've been contemplating awarding points for starting your characters turn within 30 seconds, (Using an hour glass or something) in a hopes to get people moving a bit. I already have a system in place at the moment though so i cannot try this out yet.
Heh. If this is the case, maybe you don't want a system that awards points to spend on effects (as that would increase the number of decisions each turn).
I suggest you implement a rule like "+1 circumstance bonus to rolls, caster level or Save DCs for decisive action; player decision under 30 seconds." That will certainly speed things up!
Blatant self promotion here:
About 80% of Minimus can be layered on top of d20/PFRPG games without a second thought.
Bennies allow you to roll multiple d20s and take the best roll. +1 re-roll per Bennie spent.
Everyone starts with 3 bennies. You get additional bennies by describing *failed* die rolls well enough that other players nominate you for them on the 'I'm glad that's not happening to me...' principle. Only players can nominate for bennies; the GM can second a nomination but not initiate.
If you use drawbacks, you get a bennie for every time the drawback comes up, and can earn a second one through the schadenfreud nomination process.
Here's why this system works:
1) Players describing their own failures - and 'mugging for votes' from other players - will do vastly more vicious things to their characters than you would ever pull as a GM.
2) Because the GM can only second, not initiate, it avoids the 'brown nosing the GM' problem these kinds of rules can create.
3) By tying bennies to drawbacks, players get incentivized to play their drawbacks and play into them, rather than 'oh, yeah, I'm alcoholic. Good thing we haven't seen any bars in the last four sessions!'.
I preferred Earthdawn's Karma ritual skill, as well as the SpyCraft version of "action points"
Earthdawn's karma ritual allowed you to roll one time per day to see how lucky you were, and, based on that roll, you got a number of karma points (can't remember exactly how it worked, it's been a while).
SpyCraft's action point system is a "per adventure" number. This makes it difficult for mega adventures (such as city of the Spider queen, or the Shackled City), but can be done based on the "chapter" you are in.
Personally, I like the "per day" lucky people using the Karma Ritual... So, here goes a way to make it happen in d20.
Karma Ritual (feat)
Prerequisites: PC class level 1 (meaning warriors, aristocrats, experts, commonders, and non-classed monsters don't qualify).
Benefit: You gain the use of the Karma ritual skill, and gain 1 karma per day.
Karma Ritual (skill)
You may perform a karma ritual once per day, at a set time (chosen at the time you put 1 rank into the Karma Ritual skill). As part of performing this ritual, you become especially lucky, and may add 1d6 to any roll . You may have a maximum karma equal to 1/3 of your karma ritual skill (i.e. 9 ranks in karma ritual is 3 karma maximum), which stacks with any additional karma from other sources (i.e. the Karma Ritual feat). The amount of karma gained is based on your roll, and it is impossible to take 10 or take 20 on this roll, and may never be done as part of a class feature or feat.
D20 Roll/Karma gained
10-13 : 1 Karma
14-16 : 2 Karma
17-19 : 3 Karma
20-23 : 4 Karma
24-27 : 5 Karma
28-30 : 6 Karma
This gives you maximum Karma at level 18 with rolling a 10 or better. This give you 7 total d6's rolling max. However, given the limitations on how much you can have at each rank, it will (hopefully) keep it balanced.
I'm sure I can think of more random things later.