Temple Sword Clarification


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

This question came up in a different thread.

Does the fact that a temple sword has the "monk" special quality mean that all monks are automatically proficient with it? Or would a monk need to choose it as an Exotic Weapon Proficiency?

Scarab Sages

Nope.
Ch 6 pg 145
A monk weapon is a weapon a monk can make a flurry of blows with.

That's all it means.

It does not grant automatic proficiencies or anything else.

And temple sword is not listed under weapon proficiencies for the monk.


Ok. I am going to list a couple of examples and link them and highlight relevant sentences.

Brass Knuckles
It specifically says this:

Adventurer's Armory wrote:
Monks are proficient with brass knuckles.

Cestus

Simple weapon listed as a monk weapon, but it doesn't say monks are proficient.

Hanbo
Simple weapon that is a monk weapon but doesn't mention proficiency.

And everyones favorite Temple Sword

List as a monk weapon, but no proficiency is mentioned in the description. Based on Brass Knuckles specifically saying monk's are proficient, I would say that any new weapon needs to specifically mention that monks are proficient as well as listing it as a monk weapon. I would think that a monk could still flurry with a temple sword, they would just take a non-proficiency penalty unless they have EWP.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Kratzee wrote:
*makes a very compelling argument*

You would seem to be correct. Now if only there were some means by which we could get an official answer, some source for official clarification, maybe a list of questions that are asked frequently....


Kratzee wrote:

Ok. I am going to list a couple of examples and link them and highlight relevant sentences.

Brass Knuckles
It specifically says this:

Adventurer's Armory wrote:
Monks are proficient with brass knuckles.

Cestus

Simple weapon listed as a monk weapon, but it doesn't say monks are proficient.

Hanbo
Simple weapon that is a monk weapon but doesn't mention proficiency.

And everyones favorite Temple Sword

List as a monk weapon, but no proficiency is mentioned in the description. Based on Brass Knuckles specifically saying monk's are proficient, I would say that any new weapon needs to specifically mention that monks are proficient as well as listing it as a monk weapon. I would think that a monk could still flurry with a temple sword, they would just take a non-proficiency penalty unless they have EWP.

Check out sajan (monk pre gen character) in pathfinder modules (such as the current kingmaker series) although he starts out with a temple sword ib his gear, he is NOT procicenct with it,

Higher level versions if this character have him with the temple sword exotic weapon proficency


Maybe I'm missing it, but I can't find the description of the Temple sword in the Adventurer's Armory. What page is it located on? Also, it has the "trip" special property. What does that do? Is there a bonus to the trip attempt?


The Trip special quality means the weapon may be used to make trip attempts. You can use the bonuses to that weapon (magic enhancement, weapon focus, ect.) to add to your CMB roll for the trip attempt.


Jason Rice wrote:

Maybe I'm missing it, but I can't find the description of the Temple sword in the Adventurer's Armory. What page is it located on? Also, it has the "trip" special property. What does that do? Is there a bonus to the trip attempt?

A trip weapon allows you to make trip attempts with that weapon. Weapons without the trip ability can not be used to trip people in pathfinder.


but isn't there weapons that add to your trip attempt? Or has that all been changed from 3rd edition?

Also, I'd still like to see the entry. Is it in the book? Is the above link "official?" How is a temple sword different from any other sword? They sound VERY similar to a Kopesh, from the link provided above.


Jason Rice wrote:

but arn't there weapons that add to your trip attempt? Or has that all been changed from 3rd edition?

Also, I'd still like to see the entry. Is it in the book? Is the above link "official?" How is a temple sword different from any other sword? They sound VERY similar to a Kopesh, from the link provided above.

The text for the Temple Sword is in the Campaign Setting. It was not reprinted in AA.


Mynameisjake wrote:


The text for the Temple Sword is in the Campaign Setting. It was not reprinted in AA.

Great. I don't own that.

Can anyone clue me in to the difference?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

It's a longsword you can trip and flurry with.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's a longsword you can trip and flurry with.

Thanks. But I wanted to know the difference between a Kopesh and a Temple sword.


Jason Rice wrote:

but isn't there weapons that add to your trip attempt? Or has that all been changed from 3rd edition?

Also, I'd still like to see the entry. Is it in the book? Is the above link "official?" How is a temple sword different from any other sword? They sound VERY similar to a Kopesh, from the link provided above.

If an item is labeled as "trip," as per the description in the equipment section, it gains no special bonus to trip inherently, just that it may be used to trip and may be dropped to prevent being tripped yourself.

With that said, there's no official ruling (that I've seen) that prevents you from using any 'ol item to trip. Rolling log, unconscious person, etc. But no ruling that says you can do it, either.

If, however, the weapon grants a bonus to attack, such as the MW quality, or an enhancement bonus, that will stack onto your CMB.


Jason Rice wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's a longsword you can trip and flurry with.
Thanks. But I wanted to know the difference between a Kopesh and a Temple sword.

Name picture and special abilities. I know doesn't seem like much and that's about all there is to it. The Kopesh works in different methods (is more of an axe sword) while the temple sword is well... just flat odd looking.


Takamonk wrote:
Jason Rice wrote:

but isn't there weapons that add to your trip attempt? Or has that all been changed from 3rd edition?

If, however, the weapon grants a bonus to attack, such as the MW quality, or an enhancement bonus, that will stack onto your CMB.

It also allows you to drop it when you fail by 10 or more, to avoid being tripped (which you cannot do without a special trip weapon).

Trip weapons in 3rd edition did not grant a bonus to trip, they gave the same benefit. There are a couple exceptions out there (weapons that *do* give +2 to trip), but none in core at least.


Jason Rice wrote:

but isn't there weapons that add to your trip attempt? Or has that all been changed from 3rd edition?

Also, I'd still like to see the entry. Is it in the book? Is the above link "official?" How is a temple sword different from any other sword? They sound VERY similar to a Kopesh, from the link provided above.

I couldn't find the post but Jason gave his official position on it in another thread. But yes it has been answered an the message boards. If a weapon does not have the trip quality then it cannot be used to make a trip.


bcpeery wrote:
Jason Rice wrote:

but isn't there weapons that add to your trip attempt? Or has that all been changed from 3rd edition?

Also, I'd still like to see the entry. Is it in the book? Is the above link "official?" How is a temple sword different from any other sword? They sound VERY similar to a Kopesh, from the link provided above.

I couldn't find the post but Jason gave his official position on it in another thread. But yes it has been answered an the message boards. If a weapon does not have the trip quality then it cannot be used to make a trip.

Thanks. I know that. I remember several weapons in 3rd edition gave you a bonus to trip attempts. I guess that changed for Pathfinder. An item description for any weapon with a "special" should be mandatory. Particularly if they are a non-standard weapon in the western hemisphere (where most of the Pathfinder books are sold).

It's still a little annoying that I have to buy a second book to know about the item in my first book.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

That was what left me cold about the Armory. Just a bunch of weapons with a small bonus to situational checks.

I didn't even realize Pathfinder had dropped the bonuses in favor of making only those weapons capable of those maneuvers. Just another reason I stuck with 3.5 I guess.


Jason Rice wrote:
I remember several weapons in 3rd edition gave you a bonus to trip attempts.

Huh?

Which 3.5 weapon gave a bonus on trip checks that was subsequently dropped in Pathfinder?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Hmm, I must be thinking of noncore weapons, now that I go back and review the text. And the +2 to disarm checks got moved into the Disarm weapon quality.


hogarth wrote:
Jason Rice wrote:
I remember several weapons in 3rd edition gave you a bonus to trip attempts.

Huh?

Which 3.5 weapon gave a bonus on trip checks that was subsequently dropped in Pathfinder?

I'm in the same situation as TriOmegaZero. I was SURE that whip was one, but upon reviewing the SRD, I see that it was actually a +2 to disarm.

Did they drop the +2 to disarm?


Jason Rice wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Jason Rice wrote:
I remember several weapons in 3rd edition gave you a bonus to trip attempts.

Huh?

Which 3.5 weapon gave a bonus on trip checks that was subsequently dropped in Pathfinder?

I'm in the same situation as TriOmegaZero. I was SURE that whip was one, but upon reviewing the SRD, I see that it was actually a +2 to disarm.

Did they drop the +2 to disarm?

Nope; it's listed under the description of the "Disarm" weapon property that you get a +2 bonus.


Cool. Thanks.

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