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I was justr listening to Erik's Games U Keynote speech, and at one point he mentions that publishers are attempting to find a way to figure out a way to sell pdfs in b&m stores, and that the concern was "being on the hook for thousands of free pdfs". My instant thought, working for a retailer that sells (among other things, of course) pin numbers for cell phones, is that you should learn & follow the model of these companies. Whatever method they use for generating pin#s seems to be working for them.
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Tell us more about the Pins and that model if you can. I know NOTHING *done in best Srgt Shultz voice* about it.
The best idea I had was to have a really good color laser printer and some kind of binder and order, print and bind the PDF on the spot for the customer, then email them the PDF file.
Another option would be for companies that sell PDFs (such as RPGNow) to have a way for stores to lease PDFs or something, so they can pay a small fee to print the book (as above) but not need to give the customer a copy of the PDF.
I am VERY interested in this PIN model though!
The Guild of Blades guy has a printer in his game store that will print PDF's on the spot. No idea how much it costs though.
Another way would be for the retailers to set up accounts with a PDF vendor (say Paizo) that lets them sell PDF's for a cut.
One big problem though is that there isn't an obvious need for the consumer to buy PDF's from a B&M store. That's the bigger hurdle you need to jump I think.
Right now we're going to be working both markets, selling PDF's and then bundling those PDF's and producing print books for sale in B&M stores.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
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well the only thing I can see is that a B&M store could print copies that are high enough quality, double sided and bound (probably coil or something but still bound).
I would KILL to have a printer that would paperback bind as well, or a small binding device to use with a printer.
And yeah, not a HUGE incentive. Like me, I have decided I prefer PDFs over printed books. I can copy and paste what I need and print JUST what I need for a game, with my personal modifications. I can carry my entire library to a game no problem.
But I think POD is a great, great thing and hope it just gets better and better (and more competition!). I can see the game publishing industry (except the BIG boys and girls) going this route *almost* exclusively. That is not good for B&M, but good for the publisher.
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The Guild of Blades guy has a printer in his game store that will print PDF's on the spot. No idea how much it costs though.
Another way would be for the retailers to set up accounts with a PDF vendor (say Paizo) that lets them sell PDF's for a cut.
One big problem though is that there isn't an obvious need for the consumer to buy PDF's from a B&M store. That's the bigger hurdle you need to jump I think.
Right now we're going to be working both markets, selling PDF's and then bundling those PDF's and producing print books for sale in B&M stores.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
Well I hope he uses a professional mass market printer. If he uses an ink jet or even a laser the price can get exorbitant in ink and toner,
Krone: Most smaller press publishers are going almost exclusively POD. We use Lightning Source for most of our Call of Cthulhu books. Our print run is high enough for our first Pathfinder book* though that we're going to use a traditional printer.
Marcus (LOVE the name BTW): I'm pretty sure it's a POD machine, although don't quote me since I haven't actually seen it, just read some of his posts about it on a couple of industry lists.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
*The Adventurer's Handbook, OWC 5050, $19.99, available at PaizoCon and then at fine game stores worldwide in July. :D
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Marcus (LOVE the name BTW):
I'm a huge fan of Roman history, well any history really. But Marcus Aurelius is truly inspiring, if you get a chance to read his Philosophies do. I am a real geek though, I can read it in Latin ;)
I'm pretty sure it's a POD machine, although don't quote me since I haven't actually seen it, just read some of his posts about it on a couple of industry lists.
What exactly is a POD machine? Print on Demand perhaps?
BTW It cost me approximately 60-70 dollars to print out the Pathfinder Core Rulebook on my HP Officejet Pro 8500, because of the inks. I bound it myself in paperback and it is eminently usable, but the price sucks.
I'm a huge fan of Roman history, well any history really. But Marcus Aurelius is truly inspiring, if you get a chance to read his Philosophies do. I am a real geek though, I can read it in Latin ;)
You got me beat! I only read them in English for my poli-sci classes.
What exactly is a POD machine? Print on Demand perhaps?
BTW It cost me approximately 60-70 dollars to print out the Pathfinder Core Rulebook on my HP Officejet Pro 8500, because of the inks. I bound it myself in paperback and it is eminently usable, but the price sucks.
There used to be a couple of really good POD printers that were used in the industry, but both are now out of business. :(
Ouch on the printing costs. Have you looked at Kinkos or something?
Hyrum.
Why would I buy a PDF from a brick a Mortar store? That just seem silly.
I buy PDF because I want the content now at the click of mouse. I buy from BM store because I want the physical book now and now have to wait 5-11 business days. If I can wait then I save money as I order online but the prices I'm paying is in time. Like how it took 3 months for the Pathfinder Core book to not ship and I eventually found the local gaming store which was a shock as the owner said he wouldn't stock as he's focusing on 4E and WOD only.
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Ouch on the printing costs. Have you looked at Kinkos or something?
Kinko's is much higher. (Your definition of 'much' may vary...)
Evil Hat has set up a program with B&M store for the Dresden Files RPG preorder. You pre-order the book(s) from the store get the pdf right then. The store has access to a Dropbox folder with the pdf file. Fred Hicks talks about the process on his blog and over at the dresden files forums and on podcasts.
B&M need all the help they can get. If they are able also sell/give pdf's with the book purchase then that benefits all parties involved.
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Why would I buy a PDF from a brick a Mortar store? That just seem silly.
I buy PDF because I want the content now at the click of mouse. I buy from BM store because I want the physical book now and now have to wait 5-11 business days. If I can wait then I save money as I order online but the prices I'm paying is in time. Like how it took 3 months for the Pathfinder Core book to not ship and I eventually found the local gaming store which was a shock as the owner said he wouldn't stock as he's focusing on 4E and WOD only.
The availability of PDFs from brick and mortar stores is for those either too young for credit cards, have credit problems, or otherwise don't like to use credit cards online.
Any of these demographics above would love to be able to download PDFs to their computers, but can't because they won't/can't use a credit card for their purchases. Selling a card with a pin at a brick and mortar store, however, allows these people to pay for the PDF with cash.
Evil Hat is bundling any preorders of the Dresden Files RPG through 'partner stores' (of which there are about 30 at this point I think) with something that includes a free PDF of the books. I'm not sure what the exact process for this is though.
Edit: Fray beat me on the last part.
Ouch on the printing costs. Have you looked at Kinkos or something?
Kinko's is much higher. (Your definition of 'much' may vary...)
Evil Hat has set up a program with B&M store for the Dresden Files RPG preorder. You pre-order the book(s) from the store get the pdf right then. The store has access to a Dropbox folder with the pdf file. Fred Hicks talks about the process on his blog and over at the dresden files forums and on podcasts.
B&M need all the help they can get. If they are able also sell/give pdf's with the book purchase then that benefits all parties involved.
I love what Fred is doing with this idea. We've been talking about it a lot here at Genius Central.
Hyrum.
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I can do some research with our partner company that provides the pins and get some more details, maybe. But the basic process works as follows: Customer decided which "card" they want (usually 2-6 choices per service provider, from $15-200), we scan the bar code, the "card" sale is now in the register. When we press total, the computer dials into the intermediary company, which then sends the pin to the register. Once we've done this, we are not allowed to refund the pin without calling the intermediary company to verify that it has not been activated.
The customer pays and the pin is printed on the receipt. The customer then enters the pin into their phone or calls an 800/866 number to activate it. The access for the customer is pretty much instant.
Our store gets a comission for the sale, the intermediary does as well I'm sure (just like a distributor), and the bulk of the money goes to the service provider.
As to the question of why buy from a B&M for a pdf, some of it has been covered (cash/check sales, lack of iternet connection, convenience with book purchase, etc.) But to me one of the biggest reasons is behind the counter at friendly local gaming stores. The person running the store, making sure you and your friends have a great place to come and play these games, someone who usually loves games and has found himself in the position of being a games facilitator. If this person creates the atmosphere that brings customer loyalty, the question wouldn't even be asked. I buy from him because I want to buy from him. To counter your question, why would I buy a book from him instead of from Amazon.com? You would buy a pdf for the same reason.
The availability of PDFs from brick and mortar stores is for those either too young for credit cards, have credit problems, or otherwise don't like to use credit cards online.Any of these demographics above would love to be able to download PDFs to their computers, but can't because they won't/can't use a credit card for their purchases. Selling a card with a pin at a brick and mortar store, however, allows these people to pay for the PDF with cash.
Evil Hat is bundling any preorders of the Dresden Files RPG through 'partner stores' (of which there are about 30 at this point I think) with something that includes a free PDF of the books. I'm not sure what the exact process for this is though.
Edit: Fray beat me on the last part.
I suppose that could happen but I think I'd just buy the physical product if I went the Gaming Store. I prefer the physical to the PDF.
Still I suppose there might be market. Having the AP in PDF as well has getting the physically is nice. I can print off section for players use for example.
Here's another thing. If the store can get a print on demand machine, it won't have to keep a physical copy of everythihng it sells, or maybe only keeps one as an eye catcher. This takes guesswork out of stocking, frees up space, and guarantees that everyone who wants one, gets one.