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Hi All,
Can someone please tell me why on the Pathfinder RPG Core rolebook at pag. 562 is told that a temporary negative level grants a new saving throw to remove it each day, but on the Bestiary at pag. 299 into is told that if the saving throw is not passed the negative level bocomes permanent?
Thanks.
Hi All,
Can someone please tell me why on the Pathfinder RPG Core rolebook at pag. 562 is told that a temporary negative level grants a new saving throw to remove it each day, but on the Bestiary at pag. 299 into is told that if the saving throw is not passed the negative level bocomes permanent?
Thanks.
There are 2 types of negative levels, temporary and permanent. Unless the rules say they are temporary negative levels all negative levels are permanent. The save each day is specifically talking about temporary negative levels only.
Normal negative levels are permanent, you get 1 save to avoid them. That save happens 24 hours after you gain the permanent negative levels.
However most things that give negative energy levels also have an upfront save to avoid taking that level in the first place (like most undead).
However most things that give negative energy levels also have an upfront save to avoid taking that level in the first place (like most undead).
Vampires and Wights do not allow an initial save unless I am missing something. Which creatures give negative levels and allow an initial save?
However most things that give negative energy levels also have an upfront save to avoid taking that level in the first place (like most undead).Vampires and Wights do not allow an initial save unless I am missing something. Which creatures give negative levels and allow an initial save?
I think you are right and my confusion came from misremembering both the ability and the death ward spell.
Charender is correct: There is no initial save vs. the energy drain ability. I think the confusion here is on the “temporary” and “permanent” aspect of the negative level gained.
The Bestiary is pretty clear and makes no mention of an initial save. If you get hit, you take negative levels. They are “temporary” unless you fail to remove them before 24 hours, then you get a save: Make the save and they go away. Fail the save and they become “permanent”.
So, if you cast a restoration before the 24 hour deadline, the spell would remove all of the “temporary” negative levels. If you wait, and fail the save on one or more negative levels, they become “permanent” and a restoration will only remove one “permanent” negative level per casting.
I have yet to find a spell or ability (other than enervation) that the negative levels bestowed don’t become permanent after 24 hours. The ones from enervation only last 1 hour per caster level and never become permanent.
It is a little odd that they mention the “save every 24 hours until they are gone” if there aren’t any “temporary” that don’t become “permanent” after 24 hours.
Actually my confusion was specifically from Death ward which gives a bonus on the save and allows a save even when you don't normally get one.
Actually my confusion was specifically from Death ward which gives a bonus on the save and allows a save even when you don't normally get one.
Cool, I was just making sure I didn't miss another one of those little changes from 3.5 to PF that I seem to trip over every now and then.
Actually my confusion was specifically from Death ward which gives a bonus on the save and allows a save even when you don't normally get one.Cool, I was just making sure I didn't miss another one of those little changes from 3.5 to PF that I seem to trip over every now and then.
Actually death ward makes you immune to energy drain and negative levels:
DEATH WARD
School necromancy; Level cleric 4, druid 5, paladin 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range touch
Target living creature touched
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
The subject gains a +4 morale bonus on saves against all death spells and magical death effects. The subject is granted a save to negate such effects even if one is not normally allowed. The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled negative energy.
This spell does not remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, but it does remove the penalties from negative levels for the duration of its effect.
Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks, even if those attacks might be lethal.
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Casting threat resurrection:
to my knowledge this has not been cleared up. Either the CRB is wrong about the save, or the energy drain ability is wrong.
What makes it even more complicated, is that the CRB calls permanent levels lost from something like the raise dead spell "permanent level drain" and while raise dead calls them pemanent negative levels....
This "permanent level drain" has to be wrong, since restoration can´t remove "level drain". I could be wrong, but could this be a legacy term from 3.5?
Anyway I would really love to get a definive answer on this, especially since mostly divine casters get to remove the damn things (unless limited wish is used...)
EDIT: I can see how it should cost 1000 GP to remove the permanent negative level from raise dead. But having to spend 7000 GP after your character was drained 7 levels and thus could not make it's save ro remove them, seems excessive.
WHO DARES TO DISTURB MY TWO YEAR SLUMBER!?!