Shane wolf,
I honestly do not understand how the law is racist or in anyway facist.
It applies to any all and every citizen! note I said citizen as well as illegal. Facism from my understanding would be targetting a specific group just because they are that group ala jews,blacks,gays,etc.
From my understanding all arizona has done is given the local and state police the abilty to help the federal government in their own state.
That should be self evident as part of the states basic rights to begin with, the federal government has no power except that which the constitution grants it and it states that any power not granted to the fed is inherant to the states.
Sounds to me like a happy privilege you have, as never being harassed by the police for no reason. whatever man, enjoy it. it's racist and fascist. at least you're one more person I know to stay the hell away from.
I'd say I was shocked by the amount of random support such racist and fascist laws are getting on this board, but at this point I'm kinda resigning myself. It is what it is.
I'm a bit disappointed in the thread, myself. I've seen it as a chance to learn more about this issue, researching and discussing the issue with people whose perspectives may be very different from my experiences.
... As someone who has been stopped just for walking in a white neighborhood while happening to be black, it's extremely upsetting and extremely frustrating when dealing with people who are obviously ignorant and attempting to "not profile" but profile anyway.
People's views are strongly colored by their background. There are people on this list for whom prejudice is an everyday issue, while others seldom encounter that sort of problem. The issue also depends on where you're from: I grew up in rural/suburban New England, oblivious to racial issues (despite the racist views of some of my relatives).
...Some of the folks on this board make me sick and sad, and I hope that the ignorance is at some point removed, but until then I just have to cleave to the reasonable people, and hope that no one here randomly decides that I'm "too black" to be allowed to play Pathfinder.
I don't see everything from your point of view, but we wolves need to stick together! You're always welcome at my house: bring your dice!
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well whatever
wether is racist or not apparently Flagstone and Tucson (and i think Pheonix anounced it too last week) will sue to turn around the law...
besides in the radio i ehard that it might be too for the fact of loses among 5 to 10 million dollars from tourism since the law was announced...
problems on tourism and outof country/state shopping.
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As far as Cinco De Mayo, I had a blast I tried a new mexican place last night cause the first 4 I usually go to were full but the sangria and food flowed like water. I have to agree with the earlier post as to why it's such a big deal. It's like St. Patricks day with sombreo's, how can anyone not love that.
quite interesting indeed...
well if people have fun.. then its cool :DNow as far as the important stuff. Zombies vs Vampire chicks(regarless of hotness) My note will always be ..Werewolves!! Gimme some muscled hairy rage machines anyday.
to each it own certainly :P
no one is defending illegal immigrants.
Actually, the biggest problem is, quite a few people are. LULAC, La Raza, much of the Democratic Party...
Seriously, your statement isn't even close to true.
You may well be correct. It's hard for me to say without being familiar with their positions. In any case, my use of the words "no one" was clearly mistaken.
What I meant was I'm not defending illegal immigrants.* My concern is for people who are here legitimately who get profiled and stopped based on their race and/or culture. Since police officers can't know which they're dealing with without asking for documentation (or, presumably, they wouldn't be asking), some of that is going to happen.
I'm also not arguing profiling isn't effective, because it is.
I'm saying that it isn't worth (what I see to be) compromising our principles. Further, I perceive many of the people against this law to have the same position. However, I do not actually claim to speak for them. And my objections may be moot, because I still haven't read the revisions. :D
* Though I don't get the bile and absolute hatred directed towards them for doing something most of us would do ourselves in their shoes. I also take exception to the oft-repeated implication that illegal immigrants are likely to be more dangerous or immoral than anyone else.
Hey, bugleyman: I'm working overtime to bus the illegals to Canada. You guess the Canadians won't see them as a problem? Wrong, Arizona is ashamed of you for believing that anything and everything a white person does is motivated by hate and racism. As long as white ranchers are dying, white homeowners invaded and kidnapped you're all good!! What's your alignment? Liberal?
Sometimes. What's yours?
...sounds angry...
I can't blame you; there is a quite a bit of injustice in the world. I also figure you are probably venting a little here in cyberspace where "the man" won't cast his suspicious eye upon you.
The question becomes, what do we do about that injustice? If we always get angry and swell up and rail against the authority (no matter how unjust they may be), then the people comprising that authority will only have their ignorant views reinforced. We would all do well to remember that, whether we like it or not, we serve as ambassadors for our race every time we are in a non-homogenous mix of people.
I've been an unwitting ambassador for 'my people' before, being the only member of my 'race' ina 50-mile radius. Even more unnerving, I've been the ambassador for other races, when people without my experience ask me about those who are different with whom I have associated. Sometimes it really sucks to have that constant responsibility adn there have been plenty of times where I really just want to be myself, but I am conscious of the consequences of how others perceive me. At times, I have acted 'normal' for me, despite that responsibility (we are only human after all). But I have made (and continue to make) efforts to demonstrate that we can get along and differnet is not bad, etc. etc.
My point is don't give up. YOu can't win every battle and some people are just going to be a%!+!$%s no matter what. But a lot of people (including those lacking any obvious authority other than the idea of "privilege") can think for themselves adn positive interactions can slowly break down the barriers we humans build so readily on superficial appearances.
[humorous aside]
Speaking of "the man", when I was in grad school, my firends and I were stunned to learn an otherwise white-bread classmate had been awarded a minority scholarship (based on her heritage as an underrepresented group - Appalachian-American). We looked up all the categories of minority that qualified for different scholarships and came to the conclusion that every singel one of us was a minority in some way, shape or form... except poor old Jeff. He was just a white guy from upstate New York and fit into none of the federally-recognized categories. That prompted me to remark to him, "You're the man that's been keeping us down all these years."
I found the humor because "despite" our minority status, every single person there either already had or was in the process of earning a master's or Ph.D.
[/humor]
[humorous aside]
Speaking of "the man", when I was in grad school, my firends and I were stunned to learn an otherwise white-bread classmate had been awarded a minority scholarship (based on her heritage as an underrepresented group - Appalachian-American). We looked up all the categories of minority that qualified for different scholarships and came to the conclusion that every singel one of us was a minority in some way, shape or form... except poor old Jeff. He was just a white guy from upstate New York and fit into none of the federally-recognized categories. That prompted me to remark to him, "You're the man that's been keeping us down all these years."
I found the humor because "despite" our minority status, every single person there either already had or was in the process of earning a master's or Ph.D.
[/humor]
Ths funny that there is
He was just a white guy from upstate New York...
That puts him in a category with me and houstonderek. He should get a scholarship just for that!
He was just a white guy from upstate New York...That puts him in a category with me and houstonderek. He should get a scholarship just for that!
Supposedly I'm like 1/64 or 1/128 Native American. Other than that, all I know for sure is that I'm at least 1/4 Portuguese and 1/4 Italian (my dad was 1/2 both).
As an aside, I once spent 20 minutes futilely trying to convince someone he couldn't actually be "one-third" Hawaiian. :P
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Seriously. You, me, HD, and Shiney need all the help we can get, coming from this wasteland...He was just a white guy from upstate New York...That puts him in a category with me and houstonderek. He should get a scholarship just for that!
I would put in my white guy cred if but I could, but I do not count if you try to pick and choose every little possibility.
This very vaguely on the topic of relations with mexican-american citizens and over-zealous authorities, I wonder what people's opinion is on the situation that happened yesterday.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
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This very vaguely on the topic of relations with mexican-american citizens and over-zealous authorities, I wonder what people's opinion is on the situation that happened yesterday.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
** spoiler omitted **
um Wow.
Yeah, my sister in law sent me that one this morning. Pissed me off to no end. If I were working at that school I would have been seriously tempted to throw my resignation in the principal's face that morning.
For those that don't want to/can't load the page: They were told to remove or turn inside-out their clothes because they had American Flag patterns on Cinco De Mayo. When the kids refused they were given the choice of suspension or go home.
Five students were given the choice of changing their clothes (which conformed the official dress code of the school) or be sent home with an unexcused absense due to their choice of dress on Cinco de Mayo.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
Ever since I watched a Tucson student hauled off by police, clapped into handcuffs for threatening a teacher, I've been acutely aware that public schools have become an alien land, where administrative decisions seem to be based on their fear of potential outrages rather than on careful consideration of actual behavior.
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On Cinco de Mayo, five Morgan Hill high school students came to school in red, white and blue, and got a very public lesson in school politics and free speech.
The boys came to Live Oak High School on the Mexican holiday, wearing t-shirts, shorts and shoes emblazoned with American flags.
Around 10 a.m., the assistant principal told sophomore Matthew Dariano he had to remove his bandana, which is against school policy.
But then Dariano said the assistant principal told all him and all his friends to take off their shirts, or turn them inside out, because some Hispanic students were upset and the school feared it would start a fight.
Dariano is part Mexican.
"Our Hispanic vice principal was taking their side, and was thinking that we were being racist towards them, so he was discriminating against us, making us take off our stuff," Dariano said.
"We're not trying to start trouble," said student Austin Carvalho. "We're in America. We can't wear our own colors?"
The boys refused to take off the shirts. They were not suspended, but they were sent home.
Referring to his shirt, student Dominic Maciel said, "I think it was disrespectful to my country, if I flip this inside out." Maciel is also part Mexican.
The parents of the five boys said the school's decision was un-American.
"You can't just single out these five. It doesn't work that way. That's not what America is about," said Julie Fagerstrom.
Cinco de Mayo is popular at Live Oak, which is 40 percent Latino. The school even had ethnic dancers perform at lunch.
Live Oak's principal had no comment. The Morgan Hill Unified School District, however, disagreed with the high school.
"The district does not concur with the Live Oak High School administration's interpretation of either board or district policy related to these actions," said Dr. Jay Totter of the district.
By sundown, the district met with all the students and parents, and they all got good news. The t-shirts can stay.
Yeah, my sister in law sent me that one this morning. Pissed me off to no end. If I were working at that school I would have been seriously tempted to throw my resignation in the principal's face that morning.
For those that don't want to/can't load the page: They were told to remove or turn inside-out their clothes because they had American Flag patterns on Cinco De Mayo. When the kids refused they were given the choice of suspension or go home.
Looks like the district didn't back up the school (or back-pedaled once the crap hit the fan).
As for the school personnel responsible? Ignorant and/or spineless.
There is just too much for me to do in this thread.
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
They weren't a protest at all. These kids had, according to the article, worn these shirts repeatedly before - and it even mentions that they continue to wear them after the event in question.
They were told "we could wear it on any other day, but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today." Also "The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus," and "They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended."
Looks like the district didn't back up the school (or back-pedaled once the crap hit the fan).
Yeah, the difficulty is telling which.
As for the school personnel responsible? Ignorant and/or spineless.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
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That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.They weren't a protest at all. These kids had, according to the article, worn these shirts repeatedly before - and it even mentions that they continue to wear them after the event in question.
They were told "we could wear it on any other day, but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today." Also "The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus," and "They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended."
That's not in the article that was linked. Is there another one where you're getting that information?
Edit: I see now in a previous post you mentioned you had read the story elsewhere. Can you link it? It sounds like it has more information.
Yeah, my sister in law sent me that one this morning. Pissed me off to no end. If I were working at that school I would have been seriously tempted to throw my resignation in the principal's face that morning.
For those that don't want to/can't load the page: They were told to remove or turn inside-out their clothes because they had American Flag patterns on Cinco De Mayo. When the kids refused they were given the choice of suspension or go home.
Looks like the district didn't back up the school (or back-pedaled once the crap hit the fan).
As for the school personnel responsible? Ignorant and/or spineless.
I would like to ask for clarification before responding to your post. Could you please be more specific as to whom you are refering to as Ignorant/spineless. Also in what regard are they such.
I fully support the boys in question as well as how it was handled. It was a minor issue that could have gotten bigger and was defused so that nothing more can come from it.
The hispanic students had a right to celebrate a holiday if they wish but it didn't give them the right to dictate fashion that was non-offensive, by that I mean there was no lettering on the clothing or racial slurs being promoted. Like one of the boys said all they wanted to do was show a little pride in THEIR country.
I would like to ask for clarification before responding to your post. Could you please be more specific as to whom you are refering to as Ignorant/spineless. Also in what regard are they such.
The teachers/administrators who told the boys to remove their shirts were either ignorant of the Constitutional implications of what they were doing, or spineless if they knowingly chose not to do the right thing (i.e. stand up for the boy's rights).
Better?
Yeah, my sister in law sent me that one this morning. Pissed me off to no end. If I were working at that school I would have been seriously tempted to throw my resignation in the principal's face that morning.
For those that don't want to/can't load the page: They were told to remove or turn inside-out their clothes because they had American Flag patterns on Cinco De Mayo. When the kids refused they were given the choice of suspension or go home.
Looks like the district didn't back up the school (or back-pedaled once the crap hit the fan).
As for the school personnel responsible? Ignorant and/or spineless.
I would like to ask for clarification before responding to your post. Could you please be more specific as to whom you are refering to as Ignorant/spineless. Also in what regard are they such.
I fully support the boys in question as well as how it was handled. It was a minor issue that could have gotten bigger and was defused so that nothing more can come from it.
The hispanic students had a right to celebrate a holiday if they wish but it didn't give them the right to dictate fashion that was non-offensive, by that I mean there was no lettering on the clothing or racial slurs being promoted. Like one of the boys said all they wanted to do was show a little pride in THEIR country.
Which is a bit more funny, given that Cinco de Mayo was mentioned as being celebrated more in the U.S. than in Mexico. It would seem then, celebrating the U.S. with celebrating Cinco de Mayo would make a lot of sense. Just saying. :D
I would like to ask for clarification before responding to your post. Could you please be more specific as to whom you are refering to as Ignorant/spineless. Also in what regard are they such.
The teachers/administrators who told the boys to remove their shirts were either ignorant of the Constitutional implications of what they were doing, or spineless if they knowingly chose not to do the right thing (i.e. stand up for the boy's rights).
Better?
Yes thank you. In this we can both agree. the administrators were at fault for starting the whole thing.
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.They weren't a protest at all. These kids had, according to the article, worn these shirts repeatedly before - and it even mentions that they continue to wear them after the event in question.
They were told "we could wear it on any other day, but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today." Also "The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus," and "They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended."
That's not in the article that was linked. Is there another one where you're getting that information?
Edit: I see now in a previous post you mentioned you had read the story elsewhere. Can you link it? It sounds like it has more information.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I would like to ask for clarification before responding to your post. Could you please be more specific as to whom you are refering to as Ignorant/spineless. Also in what regard are they such.
The teachers/administrators who told the boys to remove their shirts were either ignorant of the Constitutional implications of what they were doing, or spineless if they knowingly chose not to do the right thing (i.e. stand up for the boy's rights).
Better?
I thought that American courts had already ruled that freedom of speech is limited in US public schools. Wasn't that the result of a case where a student was forced to remove an anti-Bush T-shirt several years ago?
Students need to be much more active in defending their freedom to make political speech or it will continue to be eroded.
Any dress code needs to be clear and consistent so that it is not applied arbitrarily.
This very vaguely on the topic of relations with mexican-american citizens and over-zealous authorities, I wonder what people's opinion is on the situation that happened yesterday.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
** spoiler omitted **
When I first read this I thought it said erotic dancers instead.
"The school even had ethnic dancers perform at lunch."
<SNIP>
When I first read this I thought it said erotic dancers instead.
</SNIP>
*Reconsiders the teaching profession*
Five students were given the choice of changing their clothes (which conformed the official dress code of the school) or be sent home with an unexcused absense due to their choice of dress on Cinco de Mayo.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
Ever since I watched a Tucson student hauled off by police, clapped into handcuffs for threatening a teacher, I've been acutely aware that public schools have become an alien land, where administrative decisions seem to be based on their fear of potential outrages rather than on careful consideration of actual behavior.
Years ago my daughter got sent home from 8th grade for gang related attire. Do you know what she was wearing?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Five students were given the choice of changing their clothes (which conformed the official dress code of the school) or be sent home with an unexcused absense due to their choice of dress on Cinco de Mayo.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
Ever since I watched a Tucson student hauled off by police, clapped into handcuffs for threatening a teacher, I've been acutely aware that public schools have become an alien land, where administrative decisions seem to be based on their fear of potential outrages rather than on careful consideration of actual behavior.
Years ago my daughter got sent home from 8th grade for gang related attire. Do you know what she was wearing?
** spoiler omitted **
Oh, I know that gang. They do that snippity-snip-snap gesture and stand on street corners make snide observations about what other, rival gangs are wearing.
Five students were given the choice of changing their clothes (which conformed the official dress code of the school) or be sent home with an unexcused absense due to their choice of dress on Cinco de Mayo.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
Ever since I watched a Tucson student hauled off by police, clapped into handcuffs for threatening a teacher, I've been acutely aware that public schools have become an alien land, where administrative decisions seem to be based on their fear of potential outrages rather than on careful consideration of actual behavior.
Years ago my daughter got sent home from 8th grade for gang related attire. Do you know what she was wearing?
** spoiler omitted **
Oh, I know that gang. They do that snippity-snip-snap gesture and stand on street corners make snide observations about what other, rival gangs are wearing.Five students were given the choice of changing their clothes (which conformed the official dress code of the school) or be sent home with an unexcused absense due to their choice of dress on Cinco de Mayo.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
Ever since I watched a Tucson student hauled off by police, clapped into handcuffs for threatening a teacher, I've been acutely aware that public schools have become an alien land, where administrative decisions seem to be based on their fear of potential outrages rather than on careful consideration of actual behavior.
Years ago my daughter got sent home from 8th grade for gang related attire. Do you know what she was wearing?
** spoiler omitted **
LOL! She also got sent home from the same public school for wearing gang related attire for this.
I can understand some of the other shirts she got sent home for, but the two in the spoilers just baffle me. These policies are still in effect 7 years later! Those must be some scary gangs!
That is truly outrageous!Five students were given the choice of changing their clothes (which conformed the official dress code of the school) or be sent home with an unexcused absense due to their choice of dress on Cinco de Mayo.
Is the oppression of mexican-american students' freedom of speech on Cinco de Mayo as disturbing to you as it is to me?
That's one I'd want to know more about. While the school officials' actions seem inappropriate, I'm curious why the officials thought the shirts would be a problem. Were the kids' shirts just a general protest against Cinco de Mayo or were they trying to antagonize Hispanic students? Many schools have become hyper-sensitive to anything that suggests gangs or intolerance: They could fear a "show of force" by a group of students.
Ever since I watched a Tucson student hauled off by police, clapped into handcuffs for threatening a teacher, I've been acutely aware that public schools have become an alien land, where administrative decisions seem to be based on their fear of potential outrages rather than on careful consideration of actual behavior.
Years ago my daughter got sent home from 8th grade for gang related attire. Do you know what she was wearing?
** spoiler omitted **
Is that what happens when the 2 fight?
LOL! She also got sent home from the same public school for wearing gang related attire for this.
** spoiler omitted **
I can understand some of the other shirts she got sent home for, but the two in the spoilers just baffle me. These policies are still in effect 7 years later! Those must be some scary gangs!
Makes sense...
LOL! She also got sent home from the same public school for wearing gang related attire for this.
** spoiler omitted **
I can understand some of the other shirts she got sent home for, but the two in the spoilers just baffle me. These policies are still in effect 7 years later! Those must be some scary gangs!
Makes sense...
** spoiler omitted **
LOL!
LOL! She also got sent home from the same public school for wearing gang related attire for this.
** spoiler omitted **
I can understand some of the other shirts she got sent home for, but the two in the spoilers just baffle me. These policies are still in effect 7 years later! Those must be some scary gangs!
Makes sense...
** spoiler omitted **
I didn't realize the stare did negative energy damage.
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He was just a white guy from upstate New York...That puts him in a category with me and houstonderek. He should get a scholarship just for that!Supposedly I'm like 1/64 or 1/128 Native American. Other than that, all I know for sure is that I'm at least 1/4 Portuguese and 1/4 Italian (my dad was 1/2 both).
As an aside, I once spent 20 minutes futilely trying to convince someone he couldn't actually be "one-third" Hawaiian. :P
My paternal grandfather was full blooded Seneca. My mom is Italian. So, since I'm native and Latin, I guess I'm sort of Mexican...
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no one is defending illegal immigrants.
Actually, the biggest problem is, quite a few people are. LULAC, La Raza, much of the Democratic Party...
Seriously, your statement isn't even close to true.
You may well be correct. It's hard for me to say without being familiar with their positions. In any case, my use of the words "no one" was clearly mistaken.
What I meant was I'm not defending illegal immigrants.* My concern is for people who are here legitimately who get profiled and stopped based on their race and/or culture. Since police officers can't know which they're dealing with without asking for documentation (or, presumably, they wouldn't be asking), some of that is going to happen.
I'm also not arguing profiling isn't effective, because it is.
I'm saying that it isn't worth (what I see to be) compromising our principles. Further, I perceive many of the people against this law to have the same position. However, I do not actually claim to speak for them. And my objections may be moot, because I still haven't read the revisions. :D
* Though I don't get the bile and absolute hatred directed towards them for doing something most of us would do ourselves in their shoes. I also take exception to the oft-repeated implication that illegal immigrants are likely to be more dangerous or immoral than anyone else.
No worries, I just took exception to the absolutism in the statement.
I do think Arizona's law is too broad, but, having a personal perspective from the wrong side of the thin blue line, I can say that a lot of Arizonan's concerns are quite valid. The Federal government DOES need to step up its efforts to secure the border, as what is going on along the border right now is no joke. I used to work for those people, I know intimately exactly how brutal and amoral they are. My old stomping grounds around Laredo and Del Rio are pretty much a war zone right now, every bit as dangerous to some people as Iraq is.
And, on the flip side, the way the people coming here looking for a new life can be treated is a sin. I did some coyote work, for a group that was reasonably decent, but I've seen situations that were tantamount to slavery. I've seen women sold to brothels, men cooped up thirty, forty deep in a two bedroom apartment and forced to work until they paid off the coyotes.
The status quo is dangerous to everyone, and, frankly, the Feds are to blame. Real people are being affected badly from both cultures, and Washington just plays politics with the issue. On both sides of the aisle. It is inhumane and criminal.
FTW!Just because is on topic :P
+1
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Arizona ending ethnic studies programs so brown folks won't resent the white man
Dog forbid that people learn about their cultural heritage. I know we are all Americans, but some people like to know and be proud of where they came from. If it creates any resentment towards white people, doesn't that mean that we need to step back and look at our history?