And, to separately answer the resource question, yes, it doesn't matter what the resource is, it improves everything that resources say they do.
As for "why a patch of radishes boosts the production of a sawmill": it costs less to feed the workers, so while the overall productivity of the mill isn't affected, the fact that they're more self-sufficient means their value to the kingdom goes up. Likewise, a gold mine helps a farm because the steady supply of workers moving back and forth means that the farmers can always hire a few extra hands to help out, which increases their yield.
Now, these are answers I made up on the spot, and "because the rules are an abstraction, and the rules say it works" is fine to be going with.
thank you Chemlak. he relented and went with what you said about them being meant to stack.
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My pleasure, and I'm glad you got the result you wanted!
(Edit for shameless plug)
Also, if you're not already, may I suggest the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet to help with all your kingdom management needs?
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Also, if you're not already, may I suggest the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet to help with all your kingdom management needs?It's great! :)
I can truly say if we did not have this hypercharged spreadsheet, we would have been running our Kingmaker game with the "kingdom in the background" option after about 20 hexes in size. There are just too many moving parts and variables to keep track of easily when things get more expansive. This sheet does an amazing job of wrangling all the details.
Add in the fact that Chemlak has been regularly tweaking, adding to it, and maintaining it for quite some time, and it is a "must have" Kingdom game tool. It even has the options for the Legendary Games Ultimate books. What more could you ask for? :)
Well, you could ask for me to finish all the Legendary Games stuff...
What we'd really need is a flowchart... Specially for beginning cities/towns...
Ultradan
I once wrote up a detailed sequence for starting a new kingdom (I think in response to one of Ravingdork's rules question posts).
The rules are a bit contradictory in places. I'll see if I can do it again, tidy it up, and post it somewhere.
I guess the idea is, here are the items available. If you don't want any of those you have a 75% chance of finding what you do want.
I don't use the 75% rule myself, not for magic items anyway. What's in the town's item slots is what's available in town. Items could be made by special order if a crafter can be found with the necessary feats & spells.
Given those things, why would you even care about item slots? Why not just take the 75% chance to find some specific item. Those random slots most likely will not have anything useful in them.
You're correct - the item slot rules in Ultimate Campaign are entirely pointless.
The context here is that this was one of the areas with the most significant changes from the rules published in Rivers Run Red to those published in Ultimate Campaign. In RRR, items that appeared in item slots were not limited by the settlement's base value - they were only limited by the buildings you constructed which provided item slots. In addition, if the players didn't buy them, items in item slots could be bought by NPCs (like in UC, but without the Economy penalty for doing it - instead, you could do it once per city district in your realm). The big difference though was that NPCs buying magic items generated BPs for your realm. Once your Economy bonus was high enough that you could reliably sell major items, you could abuse the system to create ridiculous incomes - try searching the forums here for "magic item economy".
In attempting to cut off this abuse of the rules in UC, Paizo nerfed item slots to the point of being useless. However, they didn't go quite as far as cutting them entirely, which they probably should have. So, you're left with a mechanic which is pointless, but which involves an awful lot of messing around with rolling to fill and empty slots each turn.
A way to make them perhaps more worthwhile would be to remove the restriction that the items are limited by the settlement's base value. That way, random interesting powerful items might occasionally pass through their markets to tempt the players, items which they couldn't just pick up through the usual channels (i.e. making the 75% check each month). It's still a lot of rolling and micromanagement though.
10 BP is 40,000 gold. Just how major ARE these items and what is your tax rate?
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The easy fix for item slots is remove the last sentence of the Filling Item Slots first paragraph so that items in slots aren't limited to the Settlement Base Value.
I've discussed this with many people over the years, and the design perspective was always "Paizo were constantly told that the slot items being high value and those items being usable as a source of BP for the kingdom was broken as all heck".
And it was.
But it was only BOTH of those things being true that was broken as all heck. The second one was the most broken, and in my opinion the only one that needs to be changed to solve it.
Paizo, however, went for the nuclear option - because the feedback had apparently not been clear enough - and nerfed both parts, effectively making item slots useless as written.
There's a post around here somewhere from Sean K Reynolds (who did the design team pass on the rules after Jason Nelson modified the originals) that people complaining about it are complaining about changes other people had spent years asking for.
I'm usually fairly careful with messing with the kingdom rules, but this is one place where I've always suggested varying it - just don't let the PCs extract any useful amounts of BP for it.
I had a though this morning. You know what would be simpler to run than rolling to fill and empty magic item slots every kingdom turn? Making the interesting bit (getting something valuable the PCs can buy) occur as a random event in the event phase. You could add something like the following event to your random event table:
Major Magic Item: a magic item of exceptional value has become available in your realm. Roll 2d4 and multiply by the base value of your largest settlement; this is the approximate value of the item that is now on sale. A ruler can buy it as normal, but if they simply order that it's handed over treat as a Withdrawal from the realm (creating 1 unrest per 2,000 gp value of the item). If not bought, the item has a 10% chance each month of becoming unavailable again (sold, stolen etc.)
In fact, I see that the UC random event table has a "Remarkable Treasure" event which works sort of like that. You could forget about magic item slots and use the above event in its place and you would save yourself a lot of pointless dice rolling each turn.
A different way of removing magic item slots, but still deriving a benefit from their potential, appeared in one of the Kingmaker mega-threads a few years back.
Magical item creation: Certain buildings give bonuses to Spellcraft check to create magic items in that settlement, as this represents resources and expertise present in the particular buildings. A building gives a flat bonus dependant upon the best items (but not the amount) it produces – minor = +1, medium = +2, major = +3. The maximum bonus possible is +5, regardless of how many buildings are present, e.g. a shrine and an academy would give a +4 bonus, but if a temple was added, the bonus would only go to +5.
Buying magical items: You may use treasury funds to pay the cost of the creation of a magic item only if it benefits the kingdom. If used for personal use, the item increase Unrest by 1 for every 2,000 gp of the item's cost, just as a withdrawal of funds would. What benefits the kingdom is a discretion left to the GM.
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Here you go Morrigan:
Archives of Nethys, Random Item Generator Just select Kingdom Treasure, throw the items in the slots and go for your life :)
I have used the Random Item Generator there that Dudemeister linked there and it's handy. I only wish it could be regularly updated with the new magical items that has come out since the Ultimate Equipment book. Nevertheless, it is still an amazing resource.
CB
Also, if you're using the UCam rules, don't forget that each settlement district has a 50% chance of filling one item slot each kingdom turn. Don't roll more than you need to.
It came as a big surprise to me when I noticed it, too! I suspect that's one of those often-missed rules.
Effect is per hex.
Hehe. Everyone asks this one. No. “Cannot share a hex” improvements are only prevented from sharing a hex with other “cannot share a hex” improvements, and can freely share hexes with other improvements (basically, only one “cannot share a hex” improvement per hex). Each improvement may only be applied to a given hex once.
Any time!
Regarding your aqueduct comment, due to an unfortunate bit of mapping, my players (not in a Kingmaker game) have a kingdom of almost entirely plains hexes, and they have farms. Everywhere. And fisheries in every hex of the river. Players will optimise. Just roll with it and have fun with NPCs commenting on “the longest aqueduct in the world!”
Any time!
Regarding your aqueduct comment, due to an unfortunate bit of mapping, my players (not in a Kingmaker game) have a kingdom of almost entirely plains hexes, and they have farms. Everywhere. And fisheries in every hex of the river. Players will optimise. Just roll with it and have fun with NPCs commenting on “the longest aqueduct in the world!”
Strictly speaking, it doesn't have to be an aqueduct per se. I mean, a 'farm' could represent pastureland for herd animals, orchards, vineyards, or any number of other agricultural products... so why couldn't an 'aqueduct' represent something like an advanced irrigation network?
Something I can't figure out - does any of the rules (we're running UCamp + Ult Rulership by Legendary Games) state how to decide on settlements' alignment? We put the Kingdom's alignment for the capital, but I'm not sure about next settlements. This is important as we went with some custom rules aboit temples and cathedrals - town alignment limits which god they might be for and all have some custom bonuses.
Something I can't figure out - does any of the rules (we're running UCamp + Ult Rulership by Legendary Games) state how to decide on settlements' alignment? We put the Kingdom's alignment for the capital, but I'm not sure about next settlements. This is important as we went with some custom rules aboit temples and cathedrals - town alignment limits which god they might be for and all have some custom bonuses.
No, it's up to the group.
Hehe. Everyone asks this one. No. “Cannot share a hex” improvements are only prevented from sharing a hex with other “cannot share a hex” improvements, and can freely share hexes with other improvements (basically, only one “cannot share a hex” improvement per hex). Each improvement may only be applied to a given hex once.Not sure if you still read this, but a question for my understanding: does that mean you can have a farm in the same hex as a mine or quarry?
Yes.
No problem, always happy to help with Kingdom stuff. Can't wait to see what the 2nd Edition version of the rules looks like.
Hi all,
We’ve started with the Stolen Land module and will start with RRR soon. There’s one major change i want to impose and I would like your reflection on this:
I want to do away with the ‘magical item generation’ or availability through buildings altogether. It fits the nature of our campaigns (magical items are something special), but it’s mainly due to the economy-wrecking risks I want to avoid and the believe that it should become a bit more realistic. I therefore also want to improve the power of development (roads, trade routes, mines, etc) over just building building and gaining magical items all of a sudden
To compensate for this, I have the following measures in mind:
** buildings that (formerly) generated magical items are now 10% cheaper
** I change the taxation edict in such a way, that it allow for an ‘economy divisor’ of ¼, ⅓ or even ½ (at overwhelming tax). This means that when an Economy check is successful, you divide the BP’s gained by 4, 3 or 2 (not just 5, as is standard in RRR)
** I allow Trade Routes and trade routes are more effective: Trade Routes generate double the BP’s and the ‘Economy’ bonus when successfully established. Making +1 a +2, a +2 a +4, etc
**. The effects of Roads and special Resources are doubled: For every four road hexes your kingdom controls, the kingdom’s Economy increases by 2 (not 1). For every eight road hexes your kingdom controls, its Stability increases by 2. A Resource hex increases a kingdom’s Economy by 2.
Is this balanced? Do you have suggestions?
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The updated rules in Ultimate Campaign already do away with the "Magic Item Economy". In return, taxation is Economy roll divided by 3 instead of by 5.However (off the top of my head) that's the only change, so your other adjustments might not be necessary.
Although admittedly, I haven't compared building costs.
I kind of understood that, but the 'magical item Economy' from UC seems a bit lackluster and obsolete now.
I went a lot further in the adjustments to the Kingdom Building rules. See these Rule Adjustments for the current list (work in progess)
I'd love to get your feedback on this
The main ones being:
** No guaranteed investment: Your Kingdom will not receive an automatic 50 BP’s (Building Points). It’s rulers must attract BP’s through investors.
** Buildings: the prices of many buildings are drastically adjusted, since they were unbalanced. Also some buildings give special extras, like an NPC or a bonus.
** No Magical Items via buildings: Buildings do not generate magical items (RRR, p.58). Also the ‘Base Value’ of a city (RRR, p.58) is no longer relevant. PC’s can make magical items themselves, gain them through adventuring or buy/sell them on the regular way. This is done through roleplaying and the DM’s judgement.
** Trade Routes: The Kingdom can establish Trade Routes (via Edicts) with other settlements outside the Kingdom (source: Ultimate Campaign, p.232), which will result in a stronger Economy. This requires Roads on land or water
** Exploration Edicts: The Kingdom’s Rulers (PC’s) can make use of the Exploration Edict, meaning that they can hire scouts (and spend 3 BP per month) do exploration for them (source: Ultimate Campaign, p.230). See also the ‘Exploration’ and ‘Traveling’ rules below.
** Generate Income (tax): To generate an income, you make an Economy check against your Command DC at the end of your Income phase. If you’re successful, divide your result by 3 (not 5) and increase your Treasury’s BP by that amount.
** Loyalty: The Loyalty ability is given more relevance in Kingdom Building, since Economy and Stability are too dominant. This is done through the Ruler (mediate in alignment conflicts) and Councillor (rumours).
** Stable society: A kingdom's Economy, Stability, and Loyalty modifiers can never be further than 10 points apart from each other.
** Realistic society: A kingdom's Economy, Stability, and Loyalty modifiers can never be higher than the kingdom's Command DC – 4.
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Here you go Morrigan:
Archives of Nethys, Random Item Generator Just select Kingdom Treasure, throw the items in the slots and go for your life :)
Oh, You just took a lot of work from me while trying to fix another problem. Do you have another one for environmental climatology?
Good, my question.
The NPCs get level for leadership role kingdom? or new high level npc remplace to initial NPC?
Hey everyone. I hope someone is still lurking here. I ran KM a long time ago, and I was just looking at an old Necromancer 3rd ed mini-campaign setting I wanted to apply the Kingdom Building rules to. I do have UC the as well.
I am still a bit unclear about Unrest. So the buildings that generate Unrest or negate Unrest only affect 1 turn (month). Those bonuses/penalties go away?
What about Unrest generated from the Turn? Let's say in the Upkeep phase. The first thing you do is roll a Stability check. If you fail by 5 or more, you generate 2 Unrest. Does that carry over to the next Turn?
Thanks.
I'm using the spreadsheet, but find when I add new cities (by copying the city tabs), buildings in those cities have no effect on the kingdom. How can I fix this?
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I assume you're using the sheet I host?
If that's the case, have you actually exceeded 25 cities? The first 6 city sheets are shown by default, but there are a total of 25 built into the workbook.
If you're using Excel, go to Format > Hide & Unhide > Unhide sheet...
The popup window will show you all of the hidden worksheets, including city sheets 7 through 25, army sheets 2 to 9, and a few others, though I would strongly recommend not changing anything in the sheet called Dropdown unless you know exactly what it will do.
If that doesn't solve the problem for you because you have exceeded 25 cities, I'm sorry to say that I can't really help too much. It's not an impossible task to add more City sheets, just time-consuming because the data get referenced in so many places that adding +'City 26!XY69' or whatever everywhere it needs to go would be a bit of a pain. Though if you are interested, most things get collated in the "City Overview" sheet, so you could probably add the relevant lines there, increment the city number where appropriate, and that would make it work in most circumstances.