Summon Monster has a 1 round casting time, so to trigger it from a Wand also takes 1 round (the effect going off just before the start of your next turn).
Does this mean that the triggering can be interrupted (by damage or whatever before your next turn) like casting the actual spell could be?
I would think that, by default, that would be the case - but then the wand description mentions how only a single word is needed, and it can be used while grappling, and doesn't provoke AoO's etc.; so that makes it hard to imagine the wand user standing there incanting and concentrating for a full 6 seconds...
So you spend a full round action triggering the wand and then, regardless of you taking damage etc., the monster shows up right before your next turn starts?
That certainly works in my favor, which is why I want to confirm it rather than just assume. :)
All the decisions about a spell have to be made when it is put into a wand. I can imagine one that only summoned one type of creature at the point it was pointed at.
You'd have to be pretty precise about what it would do and how it would work, if it was possible at all. I think you can make the argument that a summoning contains too many variables to be put in a wand.
Sigurd
All the decisions about a spell have to be made when it is put into a wand.
It must be in there somewhere, but I can't find it. What page (or link) are you referencing?
All the decisions about a spell have to be made when it is put into a wand. I can imagine one that only summoned one type of creature at the point it was pointed at.
That's true for potions, but I don't think it's true for wands.
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Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.
So, sunder the wand before they finish casting...uh oh...sword versus wood...not good...
Theres no hard and fast rule with regards to what can be summoned using a Wand of Summon Monster of any level. That being said, it would make sense like alot of spells that the particular attributes of the spell in items are already defined.
The wand summons the same kind of creature if you prefer to use that variant, thats all it can ever summon, and wands that summon Celestial/Fiendish creatures would then radiate Good/Evil respectively since summon spells used in that way gain the Good/Evil descriptor.
My players only ever use Wands of Summon Monster I, II or III as trap fodder, or to lure out hidden opponents anyway. Thats all they're good for at higher levels.
Summoning Wand flexibility:
I don't have explicit references off the top of my head, although I'm not sure they don't exist, but I can't see how it would work any other way with a wand of summoning.
The creation process has you store the cast spell and 50 material components to make up the charges. The spell says....
You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can choose a different one each time you _cast_ the spell.
Using the wand is not casting the spell.
I can understand that some people might think this is a nitpick but I think you have to prepare wands with one type of summoning. The wand is not a partial spell, it is a complete spell with a spell trigger.
Perhaps you could a have a wand with a dial giving you options, or a sliding ring? I can't see that as being the simplest wand - it would cost more to make as it would include varied complete spells.
Sigurd
Zurai is right - you have to make the decisions for potions, but not for wands.
For instance, a potion of resist energy must specify the energy type. A wand of resist energy does not. Same for Summon Monster. GM decision overrules of course.
As explanation - a wand is a spell-trigger device, which is not as much "casting the spell" as a spell-completion device (like a scroll), but it does require some knowledge of spellcasting and familiarity with the spell (or a good fake-out with UMD).
I agree, Potions need to be predetermined but scrolls and wands do not. I viewed this as due to the fact that a potion does not require any casting ability. scrolls, wands and other spell-trigger and spell-completion items still require the ability to cast the spells and go through some sort of activity to trigger or complete the spell. This action allows you to choose the specifics.
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Mmm... I picture using a wand of summon monster as working a lot like the protoss in starcraft
You hit the button and the vortex appears, slowly summoning your building, or in this case, creature in.
The visual is just nice :)
This is more or less how I see it also, you fire and forget but it still takes a round to manifest.
Edit: Which brings up an interesting question. If the caster is killed during the summoning is the creature free willed? Does the caster give instruction as part of the summons?
Summoned (as opposed to Called) creatures do not need instruction. They automatically attack the summoner's enemies unless they are given a specific command otherwise by the summoner. So, if the summoner were somehow rendered unable to command his summons between the time the spell starts and the time the spell completes (and I'm not sure how that's possible, because IIRC wands take the higher of 1 standard action or the spell's casting time to use), the summoned creatures would still attack the summoner's enemies until the duration of the spell ended or they were slain/banished.
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Summoned (as opposed to Called) creatures do not need instruction. They automatically attack the summoner's enemies unless they are given a specific command otherwise by the summoner. So, if the summoner were somehow rendered unable to command his summons between the time the spell starts and the time the spell completes (and I'm not sure how that's possible, because IIRC wands take the higher of 1 standard action or the spell's casting time to use), the summoned creatures would still attack the summoner's enemies until the duration of the spell ended or they were slain/banished.
I forgot about the 'or casting time' bit. So summoning from a wand really offers no advantage to straight summoning. You wave the wand, say a single word then wave the wand gracefully for the rest of the round.
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Interrupting the spellcasting loses you a spell so it'd lose a charge from a wand, yes.
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
I'd say, the charge isn't used up until the spell activates. If you interrupt the cast, the charge is not expended.
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Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.I'd say, the charge isn't used up until the spell activates. If you interrupt the cast, the charge is not expended.
The item is activated and you expend the charge as soon as you spend a standard action. The resulting spell isn't completed after you spend the time needed to cast the spell.
If you activate the item but don't spend the time to complete the casting you spend the charge but the unfinished spell hasn't any effect.
The item is activated and you expend the charge as soon as you spend a standard action. The resulting spell isn't completed after you spend the time needed to cast the spell.
I'd say the item wasn't activated if the spell doesn't complete. That's like saying you started you car, but it isn't running.
The wand text was copied directly from 3.5. Here's what the 3.5 FAQ has to say about it.
Activating any magic item is a standard action, unless the
item duplicates a spell effect that has a longer casting time or
unless the item description specifies a different casting time.
The sections on spell completion and spell trigger items should
include the caveat that activating the item takes as long as
casting the stored spell would take. Thus, it takes 1 hour to
activate a scroll with an identify spell on it. A scroll or a wand
with any of the summon monster spells in it takes a full round
to activate, just as casting a summon monster spell does.
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The item is activated and you expend the charge as soon as you spend a standard action. The resulting spell isn't completed after you spend the time needed to cast the spell.I'd say the item wasn't activated if the spell doesn't complete. That's like saying you started you car, but it isn't running.
If you fail the check, you lose the spell just as if
you had cast it to no effect.
While wands do away with the need to concentrate if damaged, it is very clear that you use a spell slot as soon as you start a spell. You are arguing that wands work differently and you use the charge only when you complete it?
Why are you citing a 3.5 FAQ, when the relevant part of that FAQ is already in the wands description?
Why are you citing a 3.5 FAQ, when the relevant part of that FAQ is already in the wands description?
To show that you aren't using the rules for casting a spell. You are activating a wand. If the wand doesn't get activated, a charge is not expended. The rules for casting a spell are irrelevant.
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To show that you aren't using the rules for casting a spell. You are activating a wand. If the wand doesn't get activated, a charge is not expended. The rules for casting a spell are irrelevant.Why are you citing a 3.5 FAQ, when the relevant part of that FAQ is already in the wands description?
Then you should cite Pathfinder rules, and not a 3.5 FAQ.
Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.
It speaks of casting when it says "so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action", not of activation. The activation is "To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area."
Activating a wand doesn't require completing the casting of the spell. Completing the casting is required to get the spell effect.Your 3.5 FAQ says something different, but it is irrelevant as the text was modified in Pathfinder.
Those same rules are also copied from 3.5. I'm just showing the original intent of those rules. It's not like Pathfinder has original intent of something they copy pasted. The original intent rests in 3.5, and is clarified in that FAQ I quoted.
Activation
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.
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Those same rules are also copied from 3.5. I'm just showing the original intent of those rules. It's not like Pathfinder has original intent of something they copy pasted. The original intent rests in 3.5, and is clarified in that FAQ I quoted.
Activation
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.
LOL.
Based on what?The Pathfinder rules I cited clearly separate activation from casting the spell when using a wand. The 3.5 that you consider a superior font conflate them in a single action.
As we are in the Pathfinder forum the Pathfinder rules are what matter.
Your argument is totally bogus.
The rules you cited are also the 3.5 rules. And the exact same text raised arguments such as this one. That FAQ addresses this text.
The truth is that the text could be interpreted to mean whatever you want it to mean, if you take parts out of context to suit your narrative. But in this case, we know what the actual intention of the text is.