No, it ISN'T. It's an album by the Smashing Pumpkins, the last name of the actress Annabeth Gish, among other things. It's common IN YOUR AREA stop saying that because two retarded kids you hang out with use the term that everyone uses it. I've never heard it. Nor had I heard Blue Waffle. You act like there's not internet where you live or at college. You ever think they got it off the internet? Naw.
Stop acting like this is a common term IT IS NOT, no matter how many times you insist. No one I know has ever used that term to your meaning, and it is OUT OF CONTEXT ON THESE FORUMS.
eh your still wrong, I am not the only one who knows that term, stop acting like it's never been used. It is known, glad ya have not heard it but stop acting like it's a new thing , the term has been around longer then that dragon mag issue that made "Gish" the new phase on the wotc boards. I have heard the term in 2 states now, more then 200 miles apart.
So ya ya can stop acting like it's a small thing, it's been pointed out by more then me it is a known and used term. I do not think it spread all that far around here and there back in the days of the mighty 56k modem,was urban dictionary even around in 99-00? That is when I learned the term
It was 04 or 05 when I had the issue with the female player not knowing the then hot new fighter/mage term
If young female players get put off by the crass language used by gamers, someone needs to put a bullet in her head.Pressman, if a young female gamers leaves your group because she finds the other male players to be crass and vulgar or thought they were talking about something else, before ya even get started.it is indeed an issue.
And I have no clue who you see what I sad as a contradiction.
1: It is a sexral term
2: I has an old school meaning that is not used
3: most folks who use it in game have no clue about 2 and are useing it out of context
4: It is a modern sexual term when use to mean a generic fighter/mage is being used out of context.How is any of that a Contradiction?
ghwah? I pray that you forgot to put a smiley face there, or else please provide your address and we will be sending along the men in the white coats with the straightjacket to escort you to your new home.
There is nothing wrong with using crass language at the table if your group enjoys/laughs at it. And there is nothing wrong with leaving a group because you dont like the atmosphere, language, or any other social issue. Advocating violence in regards to either is not something sane human beings do.
It is now in the high schools here and at lest one collage 80 or so miles north. This is not an urban area at all, so ya know to say it's not spreading is a bit odd as ya know folks know of the term on the other side of the country as well and ya know how terms spread from collage to collage anyhow.
I don't know about you, but I haven't made a collage since 2nd grade. If your school has 2nd graders putting sexual terms into their collages, I think that school has big problems. :-P
heh yeah, my spelling doth suckith..spell checker caught it..but ya know spelled the wrong word. Ya know In high school we had to make a collage, we ended up with alot of forts and castles, kinda fuzzy on just why that was some time ago. But we also made swords in shop class...so go fig
[Pres man], if a young female gamers leaves your group because she finds the other male players to be crass and vulgar
Certainly, people should find groups of like minded people.
or thought they were talking about something else, before ya even get started.it is indeed an issue.
This is another issue, someone who is too stupid to realize what is being talked about within the context of the discussion is not the definition they initially thought it was, isn't a big loss. Sorry, I'm not going to shed tears for someone that doesn't understand context. If someone at a GAME TABLE says, "You know I was wanting to get a gish build for my next character, but the eldritch knight doesn't look very good for low levels, what do you suggest?" If another person at the table thinks they are talking about sexual stuff, just let them walk away, they don't need to be interacting with other people if context is too difficult of a concept for them. Seriously.
And I have no clue who you see what I sad as a contradiction.
1: It is a sexral term
2: I[t] has an old school meaning that is not used [often/exclusively]
3: most folks who use it in game have no clue about [number] 2 and are [using] it out of context
4: It is a modern sexual term [and] when use[d] to mean a generic fighter/mage [it] is being used out of context.How is any of that a Contradiction?
You seemed to be indicating that the sexual meaning was the only meaning that could be used in any context. Obviously that is incorrect. Now that you have clarified further (sort of), I will address this new aspect.
When speaking specificly about a Gith fighter-mage, gish is exactly 100% the correct term to be used, no matter whatever other possible definitions there may be. Now within gaming circles is has been expanded to mean any fighter-mage character. A sexual definition within those contexts is 100% incorrect, even if you assume that the more general fighter-mage application to the term is incorrect, that doesn't mean that the sexual meaning is the correct one in a gaming context. So the generic fighter-mage use of it might be technically incorrect, it is not out of context.
If you have to explain what a word means every time you use it then that word is pretty much meaningless.
Except you don't have to explain it everytime. You might have to put up with people pulling out of context meanings that have no relevance to the game being discussed, but that doesn't mean it is overly confusing to anyone halfway trying not to be assine.
I could point you to all the different discussions where people are debating what 'gish' means but you can just look in this thread. MiB made a whole thread on "what is a gish" a while ago.
And was that thread about the concept of a "gish" or what features would make an effective design of a class/build for one?
I did a search on google:
what is a good gish build
And got links to all kinds of different game sites. I don't think the word as "bad" or "misunderstood" as some HERE think it is.
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A lot of the love for the Gish concept is really from PC's who truly enjoy playing Fighters but hate how rapidly Pure fighters fall behind all the other classes in survivability, damage output, flexibility and out of combat use. The desire to add SOMETHING, ANYTHING to keep the class interesting and useful (besides becoming a 1 trick combat pony ala the 9 feat ROFLstomp builds from the old optimization boards) keeps bringing us back to the Gish concept. Anything to overcome the dumb punching bag distraction or the laughable POWER ATTACK FOR FULL that fighters have become.
To me it's always been a wizard/fighter mix that's focused on melee combat and used their spells to buff that aspect and add a bit of flexibility to out of combat life. The kind of Gish design that would appeal the most to me and most of the other Gish-advocates I've spoken with is Take a straight Fighter add the ability to cast combat buff spells (mage armor, bulls strength, blur, true strike, etc roughly anything that you would normally have to rely on a mage to cast on you before a fight) + some light OOC spellcasting (spells like Tongues, fly, some Abjuration spells, etc) at a reasonable cost to base fighter abilities. (PERHAPS a channel spell ability if it can be done in a non-overpowered way) and leave the real heavy lifting spellcasting to the pure casters.
Most of the real Gish discussions I've read have dissected it up down and sideways to show that any fighter/caster build that tries to do anything but swing a weapon and keep the magic as before fight buffs, instant melee boosts or totally out of combat casting is vastly weaker than just going the pure mage route to begin with. We just want a fighter with something extra, someone who can do more than wait for the party caster to buff them so they can actually contribute to a mid to high lvl fight or take a role other than bodyguard when we get back to town
Ok.
Seriously?
Two things.
1) EVERYTHING can be made into a sexual connotation. Seriously. Think of a single word that can't, then think about it some more until you realize "Oh wait, it can."
2) Everything is on Urban Dictionary for the sheer purpose of becoming a sexual connotation.
Getting mad that a word is on Urban Dictionary and involves sex is like refusing to wear shows because some people on the internet fetishize them.
As for Eldritch Knight, here are the main problems.
1) The requirements are caster heavy. This leads to a class that isn't a caster/fighter, but instead a caster (who can kinda fight I suppose if he REALLY wants to but isn't that good). The opposite can happen as well, with PrCs that are very fighting heavy, and leads to a fighter that can kinda cast spells I suppose if he REALLY wants to but isn't that good.
2) It's undo-able until level 7. That means for the first seven levels, you aren't the mage/fighter hybrid you want to be, you're just some dorky wizard who owns a sword he can't really use properly.
3) It's not very good. This is mostly because of 1 and 2. It's not a mage/fighter hybrid. It's a wizard that can occasionally make himself terrible by trying to hit things. Add to that the fact that they need three swift actions in order to function, and have access to 1, you run into problems.
Why the Duskblade is good, and why something similar could be made without stepping onto WotC IP:
1) It mixes casting and fighting together. You do both at the same time, instead of alternating between the two. This is precisely what a lot of people want out of a fighter/mage, and what makes creating them so difficult.
2) It's a base class, so you get to be that wizard/fighter from the start of your adventuring career to the end. You don't have to wait until level 7 to actually play the character you want.
3) It's pretty good! It's one of the more balanced things from 3.5. It isn't stupidly weak like the base fighter, it isn't world shatteringly powerful like the 3.5 wizard. It's a damn good medium.
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Sorry pres man but no.
Look at THIS THREAD. Pull out the trolling answers from seeker, etc.
There is still no clarity on what a Gish is. Pull any thread on this board discussing gish and pull out all the trolling messages which are not RPG related (referring to Urban Dictionary/ etc) and there is still tons of confusion and misunderstanding.
Every time Gish is brought up chaos and misunderstanding follow, and again I'm not referring to the deliberately obtuse people who mix things up, just among the people honestly discussing the topic.
Using the generic definition, there are already 4 'gish' options in the core and 2 more under the APG that we've seen. But wait bard isn't really a Gish, or is it? And summoner is a gish but can't cast fireballs so does that count?
I removed some posts. Advocating violence against someone because they disagree with you is bad.
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Maybe we can define "Gish" as:
Gish:
1) An elusive character concept in fantasy RPGs over which no two gamers share a common definition, which often brings discord and leads to arguements.
2) A small pastry filled with blackberry jam. When bitten, the filling flows out all over one's shirt, making a distinctive "gish" sound.
I prefer the second. Much yummier and nobody's feelings get hurt. Although one does need to have a napkin handy.
I removed some posts. Advocating violence against someone because they disagree with you is bad.
Just curious, but when you applied for your job at Paizo was, "Do you have experience working in a kindergarten environment?" on the application? Or, "Do you have a high tolerance for childish behavior?" 'Cause, given what you have to put up with, one of them should have been.
Sorry pres man but no.
Look at THIS THREAD. Pull out the trolling answers from seeker, etc.
There is still no clarity on what a Gish is. Pull any thread on this board discussing gish and pull out all the trolling messages which are not RPG related (referring to Urban Dictionary/ etc) and there is still tons of confusion and misunderstanding.
Every time Gish is brought up chaos and misunderstanding follow, and again I'm not referring to the deliberately obtuse people who mix things up, just among the people honestly discussing the topic.
Using the generic definition, there are already 4 'gish' options in the core and 2 more under the APG that we've seen. But wait bard isn't really a Gish, or is it? And summoner is a gish but can't cast fireballs so does that count?
Sorry 0gre but no.
The concept of "gish" isn't complicated, the precise best way of designing a class/build around the concept can be. Yes, the bard is a gish, just not a very good one typically.
This is another issue, someone who is too stupid to realize what is being talked about within the context of the discussion is not the definition they initially thought it was, isn't a big loss. Sorry, I'm not going to shed tears for someone that doesn't understand context.The sheer arrogance is a bit...nostalgic? Depressing? I mean, honestly, are we STILL in High School? Is this STILL the late 80's? Is Mazes & Minotaurs STILL the gold standard of gaming knowledge to the outside world?
No, that's right. We should be adults, in a modern age, knowledgeable that preceptions and backgrounds differ, and respectful of those differences. We are no longer the unwashed, gynophobic, pubescent guys at the local gaming store, snorting pixie stix, and scouring National Geographic and Marvel for our next character ideas.
So you think it is worth your time to game with someone that doesn't understand the simple concept of "context". Ok. More power to you, you are a saint. Frankly, my view is that life is too short to game with morons. You obviously have a different view.
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Maybe we can define "Gish" as:
Gish:
1) An elusive character concept in fantasy RPGs over which no two gamers share a common definition, which often brings discord and leads to arguements.2) A small pastry filled with blackberry jam. When bitten, the filling flows out all over one's shirt, making a distinctive "gish" sound.
I prefer the second. Much yummier and nobody's feelings get hurt. Although one does need to have a napkin handy.
Well you might get hurt if you eat the second when it's too hot.
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Sorry 0gre but no.
The concept of "gish" isn't complicated, the precise best way of designing a class/build around the concept can be. Yes, the bard is a gish, just not a very good one typically.
Many, many people have said the bard is NOT a gish. Likewise I've had people say the summoner isn't a gish.
If it's not complicated then why isn't there a single simple definition for it which everyone agrees on?
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Sorry 0gre but no.
The concept of "gish" isn't complicated, the precise best way of designing a class/build around the concept can be. Yes, the bard is a gish, just not a very good one typically.
More significantly, if it isn't 'complicated' then why is there alwas debate, (again among non-trolls) about what exactly a gish is? Every time the topic is brought up there is confusion and debate.
Sorry 0gre but no.
The concept of "gish" isn't complicated, the precise best way of designing a class/build around the concept can be. Yes, the bard is a gish, just not a very good one typically.
Many, many people have said the bard is NOT a gish. Likewise I've had people say the summoner isn't a gish.
If it's not complicated then why isn't there a single simple definition for it which everyone agrees on?
Well I think it goes back to context. If people are wanting a base class that is competent at performing the gish concept, then they may find the bard lacking and thus claim it is not a gish, meaning not the competent concept they would like to see in a more broad base class. Also the bard is a sub-group of the gish concept.
An analogy:
"I want a quadrilateral base class."
"Well there is a square base class, that is a quadrilateral, isn't that good enough."
"No because it doesn't allow for the sides to be of different lengths, or the angles to be anything other than 90 degrees."
"See the concept of a quadrilateral class is too complicated, people can't come to a conclusion on the lengths of the sides or the angles."
Sorry 0gre but no.
The concept of "gish" isn't complicated, the precise best way of designing a class/build around the concept can be. Yes, the bard is a gish, just not a very good one typically.
Many, many people have said the bard is NOT a gish. Likewise I've had people say the summoner isn't a gish.
If it's not complicated then why isn't there a single simple definition for it which everyone agrees on?
Well the word justice is simple, but how often do people disagree with what it 'really' means [hint see current new york state law books]. Heck, what about alignments? No one feels we shouldnt use the alignments in conversation, but how often do we disagree on who/what/how a character is one of them (except that batman is all of them at once ofc). Disagreement on what the 'true meaning' of a word is doesnt devalue it.
If people stopped deliberately misinterpreting the word gish in a gaming context, then it would convey SOME meaning, its not EXACTLY the same to everyone, but it gives you an idea of what they are talking about. Then they have to explain (which they almost always do).
If you dont think this is good enough lets try a little experiment shall we?
Think of a dog. Quickly, dont think too long. Now go find a picture on the internet of something that looks as close as possible to what you pictured and post the link. Who wants to bet me that we'll find a large variation in the pictures [assuming people genuinely search for what they pictured and dont just select the first google image result for 'dog']? But guess what, dog is still a perfectly acceptable word.
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Well the word justice is simple, but how often do people disagree with what it 'really' means [hint see current new york state law books]. Heck, what about alignments? No one feels we shouldnt use the alignments in conversation, but how often do we disagree on who/what/how a character is one of them (except that batman is all of them at once ofc). Disagreement on what the 'true meaning' of a word is doesnt devalue it.
Justice is a concept which there is no easy substitute for.
Gish is an invented term which there are other terms which are MORE USEFUL without the baggage that gish brings along with it.
More power to you, you are a saint.Why, thank you! I far prefer Sainthood to Risen Martyr anyway.
And an old gaming group of vets disintegrated a while back and I re-formed a group with mostly n00bs, so I learned very rapidly that I should explain ALL things clearly and NOT rely on things like context.
Let me be clear, I do not expect people to KNOW a word simplify from the context. But I do expect them to know that they do NOT KNOW the word from the context.
If all I know is that the word board means a piece of word. And at my job, I am told that I will need to be interviewed by the board. I might not know exactly what the "board" is in that context, but I sure as hell have a pretty good idea I'm not going to be interviewed by a [literal] piece of wood (it might be figurative like Al Gore, but that is another issue).
Well the word justice is simple, but how often do people disagree with what it 'really' means [hint see current new york state law books]. Heck, what about alignments? No one feels we shouldnt use the alignments in conversation, but how often do we disagree on who/what/how a character is one of them (except that batman is all of them at once ofc). Disagreement on what the 'true meaning' of a word is doesnt devalue it.Justice is a concept which there is no easy substitute for.
Gish is an invented term which there are other terms which are MORE USEFUL without the baggage that gish brings along with it.
Other then compoud words which term is there that isnt a specific 3.x class or prestige class?
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Gish is an invented term which there are other terms which are MORE USEFUL without the baggage that gish brings along with it.Terms such as?
Jedi(-like) is a good one has a very well defined scope.
Spell sword is also good though not quite as well defined.
For a more generic term without the baggage Mage-Blade is solid and communicates it's meaning extremely effectively without the stupid debates.
Gish is an invented term which there are other terms which are MORE USEFUL without the baggage that gish brings along with it.Terms such as?Jedi(-like) is a good one has a very well defined scope.
Spell sword is also good though not quite as well defined.
For a more generic term without the baggage Mage-Blade is solid and communicates it's meaning extremely effectively without the stupid debates.
Aside from all of those being too long, they all have the same lack of specifics as 'gish'.
Jedi first of all has HUGE roleplay connotations, fluff ties to a very specific weapon, and not to mention it covers even more concepts then the 'gish'. Dont believe me? Go look up how many different ways you can put together a jedi in saga edition (i've literally built dozens for my saga edition game, and none of them played the same). It goes all the way from pure 'caster' to pure fighter and everything in between. That is not any more useful then gish, and it has MORE bagage.
Spell sword, um how is this more descriptive at all? Doesnt help for characters not using, you know, a sword. Mage blade does the same thing, they dont have to be using a blade. And neither indicates arcane casting, so cleric could apply to both, or an inquisitor. They both will have the EXACT same disagreements on 'true meaning' as a gish. The same 'is a bard or isnt a bard a one of these' will happen. Not to mention im almost certain their is an existing 3.x class or prestige class for spell sword, not certain of mage-blade.
Thats why people use gish, there is not short and descriptive word to replace it. At least it implies (because of it's origins) an arcane caster who also fights. That is better then all 3 you suggested.
Let me be clear, I do not expect people to KNOW a word simplify from the context. But I do expect them to know that they do NOT KNOW the word from the context.
An old girlfriend once commented that her roomate was a "jap". In my part of the world, that's a negative slang for being Japanese. In hers, it's being a spoiled Jewish girl.
I responded with a shocked look and said "She doesn't look Japanese."
Akward laughter followed.
Sounds like the reason you said that was the statement didn't fit the context of the situation. Seems as if you understand context just fine.
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So no, you don't have any examples that don't have lots of irrelevant extra baggage themselves, except for goofy compound words.Jedi(-like) is a good one has a very well defined scope.
Spell sword is also good though not quite as well defined.
For a more generic term without the baggage Mage-Blade is solid and communicates it's meaning extremely effectively without the stupid debates.
Seeing as you can't use it by itself how is Gish not a goofy compound word? You can say "Spell Sword" and it communicates something to everyone. You say "Gish" and it communicates a lot of different things depending on the reader. Some people the term Gish is completely devoid of meaning (thus this thread).
Given the choice being a goofy compound word or a goofy word which communicates nothing and draws stupid flame wars, I'll take the goofy compound word.
Incidentally how is 'gish' any less goofy than spellsword or mageblade?
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So no, you don't have any examples that don't have lots of irrelevant extra baggage themselves, except for goofy compound words.Jedi(-like) is a good one has a very well defined scope.
Spell sword is also good though not quite as well defined.
For a more generic term without the baggage Mage-Blade is solid and communicates it's meaning extremely effectively without the stupid debates.
Seeing as you can't use it by itself how is Gish not a goofy compound word? You can say "Spell Sword" and it communicates something to everyone. You say "Gish" and it communicates a lot of different things depending on the reader. Some people the term Gish is completely devoid of meaning (thus this thread).
Given the choice being a goofy compound word or a goofy word which communicates nothing and draws stupid flame wars, I'll take the goofy compound word.
Incidentally how is 'gish' any less goofy than spellsword or mageblade?
Scratch that Q, I don't care. Wasted too much time on a silly subject as it is. Ogre Out
You can't say that word,<punches the poster>, only we can say that word. Sorry, watched Something, Something, Something Darkside last night.
I love you.
F- off.
So no, you don't have any examples that don't have lots of irrelevant extra baggage themselves, except for goofy compound words.Jedi(-like) is a good one has a very well defined scope.
Spell sword is also good though not quite as well defined.
For a more generic term without the baggage Mage-Blade is solid and communicates it's meaning extremely effectively without the stupid debates.
Seeing as you can't use it by itself how is Gish not a goofy compound word? You can say "Spell Sword" and it communicates something to everyone. You say "Gish" and it communicates a lot of different things depending on the reader. Some people the term Gish is completely devoid of meaning (thus this thread).
Given the choice being a goofy compound word or a goofy word which communicates nothing and draws stupid flame wars, I'll take the goofy compound word.
Incidentally how is 'gish' any less goofy than spellsword or mageblade?
Im going to respond anyway, it WOULDNT be goofy if arrogant purists didnt flame the heck out of it. Sure newcomers wouldnt know what it meant, but they also may not know what BAB, AC, SR, CR, etc mean. Or for that matter, munchkin, troll, powergamer, these are all accepted terms, but they are equally difficult for newcomers to decipher. They ask, people explain, they learn. The confusion stems FROM THE FLAMMERS and no where else. Spell Sword, A is too long, if you disagree, why dont we write out challenge rating, why do people search for a way to shorten animal companion? No one wants to type out that much, and B it still offers up confusion, namely, does one have to use a sword? What kind of spells? Arcane? Divine? Psionic? It offers no real information in my opinion. Gish because of it's history is actually rather descriptive, even if it isnt perfect.
As for why they are 'goofy' they are compound words. You are writing things out longhand. You might as well just say, fighter/mage. And any term that is not more useful then fighter/mage is not useful at all. Spell sword is in fact LESS useful the fighter/mage, as is mageblade. So what? Martial Arcanist? A real mouthful no? And it's longer then fighter/mage so again, thats out.
Give me a word thats more useful then fighter/mage that isnt an existing 3.x class or PrC, and I promise i'll use it every chance i get. But untill then, you have to respect people's right to use the word gish, as there is no sound replacement.
So no, you don't have any examples that don't have lots of irrelevant extra baggage themselves, except for goofy compound words.Jedi(-like) is a good one has a very well defined scope.
Spell sword is also good though not quite as well defined.
For a more generic term without the baggage Mage-Blade is solid and communicates it's meaning extremely effectively without the stupid debates.
I like acronyms.
Guy That Magically Stabs Dudes.
GTMSD.
Or, to be cheeky, MST-GT!
same problem as mageblade etc. (though interesting idea with acronyms), leaves out bludgeoning weapons, or unarmed combat for that matter.
I've seen the term P.E.A.C.H. before on various gaming message boards -- but have no idea what it means. Can someone venture a brief answer without inciting a riot?
CJ
I've seen the term P.E.A.C.H. before on various gaming message boards -- but have no idea what it means. Can someone venture a brief answer without inciting a riot?
CJ
Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly (as opposed to just flaming the idea)
How about Wizard of Weapons (WoW). What? What? ;D
I've seen the term P.E.A.C.H. before on various gaming message boards -- but have no idea what it means. Can someone venture a brief answer without inciting a riot?
CJ
Please Examine And Critique Honestly?
Edit: Pres got there first.
You might as well just say, fighter/mage.
So what's wrong with saying fighter/mage?
It's not like 'gish' is the 'Kleenex' of fighter/mage-dom.
An old girlfriend once commented that her roomate was a "jap". In my part of the world, that's a negative slang for being Japanese. In hers, it's being a spoiled Jewish girl.
Jewish American Princess, to be precise.
GishYou keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
InconCEIVable!
Ok I have been resisting saying this...but every time this comes up that damned Hudson hawk pops in my head, but with that damned word
"Would you like to swing on a star
Carry moonbeams home in a jar
And be better off than you are
Or would you rather be a gish?
A gish is an animal that swims in a brook
He can't write his name or read a book
To fool the people is his only thought
And though he's slipperly
He still gets caught!
If that's all life is what you wish
You may grow up to be a gish"
Gods I hate that word but damned if that don't jump in my head every damned time...I hate you all
You might as well just say, fighter/mage.So what's wrong with saying fighter/mage?
It's not like 'gish' is the 'Kleenex' of fighter/mage-dom.
There's nothing wrong with saying that. I don't think anyone here is saying people HAVE to use the term "gish" when discussing a fighter/mage. There are several people that are trying to make others STOP using it is all.
If you prefer a different term and you understand what someone else means when they use this term, then when posting comments, use the term you prefer. And when someone else uses this term, and you understand what they mean, mentally do a translation into your prefered term. Why do people feel like they have to act as the grammar ... oh whats a word ... you know like a police force that arrests people for the smallest infractions ... damn it just isn't coming to me ... you know like Stalin's forces ... whatever, you know what I mean.
One time Dorothy Gish...
was visiting me on the set of ...
Little Neddy, Grab Your Gun.
And she came up to me...
and she looked me in the face.
I'd never met her.
I just know her from the films.
You know, Dorothy Gish...
Lillian's sister.
And she looked me in the eyes
and she said...
"Young man, you have got it."
And...
Dorothy Gish.
It's a true story.
-Ned Nederlander (Three Amigos)