Earth Glide casting from the ground

[Steely Sam]

So I'm a 6th lvl druid, my wild shape allows me to go elemental now (one of my favorite things to do as a druid), so I decide earth elemental and earth glide under my allies feet to heal him from the ground.

my question is how does this work and what benefits/drawbacks does an enemy adjacent to my ally get as far as AoO and Cover bonuses go

for the time being I use the rules for water (treating the ground as water for the purposes of the earth glide)

[Mabven the OP healer]

Steely Sam wrote:

So I'm a 6th lvl druid, my wild shape allows me to go elemental now (one of my favorite things to do as a druid), so I decide earth elemental and earth glide under my allies feet to heal him from the ground.

my question is how does this work and what benefits/drawbacks does an enemy adjacent to my ally get as far as AoO and Cover bonuses go

for the time being I use the rules for water (treating the ground as water for the purposes of the earth glide)

I would give you a bit better situation than water. Since you only need to get your head and a hand out to heal, I would rule that the earth-gliding druid has improved cover.

[cp]

While I completely agree with the providing improved cover, I would also note that your ally doesn't know whats happening either.

I think it would be reasonable to require you to make a melee touch attack at least the first time; alternately, I would give the player a perception check at some penalty to see your hand and recognize it as friendly.. with an adjacent enemy it is pretty reasonable to assume he is spending a fair amount of attention trying to not get hit - and not looking for mysterious hands between his legs...

[Ravingdork]

If you are under the ground, everyone has total cover and total concealment relative to you (and vice versa). If you cannot see a target, you cannot target them with a targeted spell unless you can touch them.

Basically, if you are under your ally, but know he is standing above you, you can simply reach up, grab his ankle, and hit him with a heal or similar spell, despite the fact that you can't see him.

You would maintain your total cover, unless someone prepared an action to attack your limb, in which case it would only be improved cover.

[azhrei_fje]

Ravingdork wrote:

You would maintain your total cover, unless someone prepared an action to attack your limb, in which case it would only be improved cover.

D&D 3.x was silent about the correct way to handle this, but PFRPG has the Strike Back feat:

PRD wrote:

Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.

Note the wording of the feat and how without it, you can't take the action you proposed.

[Ravingdork]

azhrei_fje wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

You would maintain your total cover, unless someone prepared an action to attack your limb, in which case it would only be improved cover.

D&D 3.x was silent about the correct way to handle this, but PFRPG has the Strike Back feat:

PRD wrote:

Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.

Note the wording of the feat and how without it, you can't take the action you proposed.

If you and the creature are within reach of each other, you absolutely can do what I propose.

The reason you can't normally attack a creature with a prepared action when they attack without that feat is because they typically have reach (and can attack you) and are not within your reach (which is why yo can't attack them in turn).

[Steely Sam]

Ravingdork wrote:

If you are under the ground, everyone has total cover and total concealment relative to you (and vice versa). If you cannot see a target, you cannot target them with a targeted spell unless you can touch them.

Basically, if you are under your ally, but know he is standing above you, you can simply reach up, grab his ankle, and hit him with a heal or similar spell, despite the fact that you can't see him.

You would maintain your total cover, unless someone prepared an action to attack your limb, in which case it would only be improved cover.

anyone else think thats broken

[stringburka]

Steely Sam wrote:

anyone else think thats broken

Healing is usually a really subpar thing to do with your actions in combat. It isn't broken in any way, especially since you as a druid isn't even very good at healing.

[gbonehead]

Bah.

I wrote a long answer and the stupid post monster ate it.

I do this all the time.

Use improved cover or total cover, and remember that with tremorsense, all creatures have total concealment.

[Ravingdork]

gbonehead wrote:

Bah.

I wrote a long answer and the stupid post monster ate it.

I do this all the time.

Use improved cover or total cover, and remember that with tremorsense, all creatures have total concealment.

I've made a habit of copying my posts before hitting the SUBMIT POST button. That way, if it gets eaten, I can simply paste it in again on the retry.

[gbonehead]

Ravingdork wrote:

gbonehead wrote:

Bah.

I wrote a long answer and the stupid post monster ate it.

I do this all the time.

Use improved cover or total cover, and remember that with tremorsense, all creatures have total concealment.

I've made a habit of copying my posts before hitting the SUBMIT POST button. That way, if it gets eaten, I can simply paste it in again on the retry.

I do that 9 times out of 10. Guess what :)

I just installed whatzis (Lazarus?) so hopefully that's the last time I'll be bitten by the post monster.

[FGee]

Using earth glide is very similar to an incorporal creature moving within an object. And this has clear rules in the core rulebook I would use that as a reference.

"An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks."

According to this, a creature with earth glide and tremorsense hiding in the ground below his enemy, has total cover, and can emerge for a moment when attacking, having only cover at that moment. Thus can be attacked only with a readied action, and at AC+4 (because of the cover). Broken, but true.

Of course if under the ground in total cover, the creature does not see who is standing above it (if someone newly moved into the range of the tremorsense). So it must emerge to identify if it is ally or enemy. But I do not see this as a hindrance.