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Is there any game legal way to use the disguise skill (and a large cloak perhaps?) to hide the fact that you are wearing armor?
I wanted to play a fighter that specalized in the quarterstaff, and stuck in the back of the party near the wizards, blending in. If the front line folks let any baddies by he would then protect the second line and provide a nasty surprise(and help flank said baddies.)
Depending on the character's size and his cloak (or any other covering garment), I think you could hide a Leather armor, but that's pretty much all. All other armors are either too bulky (plate armor, hide armor) and/or clunky (all hard armors).
Some time ago, I read something about silenced armors (I don't remember where, though). IIRC, it was a chain mail with tissue woven in between the links. Such an armor, especially if made with thin metal (check with the special materials section) and properly covered, could be hidden as well. I leave you with your GM to determine an appropriate price.
Any armor that's hidden like this is susceptible to being discovered at the first hit of a weapon against it. Or the first pat in the back. NPC's Perception checks being rolled behind the GM's screen, there is always a risk of being discovered.
...or, as suggested by Chris Mortika, you can also buy a Glamered armor.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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At a comicbook convention years ago, the creative team behind Captain America admitted that they just ignored the difficulties of Steve Rogers hiding his mailed uniform and shoulder-slung shield under a shirt and sport coat.
"Hey, Steve, you look a little warm there..."
"I just ... need a little ... " *k-thunk*
"Oh my gosh! He passed out. Give him some air! Loosen his -- hello."
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Always like the thought of a quarterstaff-wielding warrior. See them in movies, books, but not much in D&D. In any case, you should be able to make a case to try and hide light armors. Are you attempting to make enemies think you're a caster? Throw in some arcane gestures and you might draw some fire!
A mithril chain shirt could be easily hidden under clothing. Other, heavier armors might be concealed by a large enough cloak, but once you start moving they'll be pretty easy to spot.
As has already been mentioned, magic would be your best bet at concealing your armor. Glamered armor, a hat of disguise, etc.
I don't know if there's a rules specific way to hide armor under clothing but speaking from experience of wearing armor I'll tell you it would be bloody difficult. Most of the heavier armors are just too bulky and restrictive to be able to hide effectively against someone that knows what to look for- which would be pretty much anyone in a normal D&D world that either makes their living fighting or around armored fighters.
I'd represent it by applying double the ACP of the armor to all Sleight of Hand checks to conceal the armor. I know that may sound like a lot but it still gives you a decent chance to hide a chain shirt but makes hiding the more bulky armors next to impossible to hide. Which they should be, I don't care how voluminous your cloak/robe is if you get one big enough to hide the fact that you're wearing plate armor you'll look like a fool and not be able to move.
Now once you get to higher levels magic and special materials are the way to go. In 2nd Edition one of the cool things about elven chain was that it was so light it could be worn under a shirt with no one the wiser of you wearing it. At higher levels I'd recommend magic and mithral as was said above.
Just apply the armor's Armor check penalty to the Disguise check...
Mithral Chain shirt +0
Full plate -7
Makes sense,
I am using disguise, moving on all fours and disguising myself as an ass at the back of the party. I am using my disguise skill to do so, what is my penalty?
-50?
You get a +10 if you have a Donkey costume, this would reduce you penalty to -40 :)
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Makes sense,
I am using disguise, moving on all fours and disguising myself as an ass at the back of the party. I am using my disguise skill to do so, what is my penalty?
-50?
Well, if you were on all fours at the back of the party I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have a hard time convincing people that you're an ass :P
Oh, you mean a donkey. Yeah, that'd be harder.[/snark]
There is also Celestial Armor.
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence.
You have 22k for armor, right? :-)
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Have you considered glamered armor?
In a society game you have little control in the sorts of armor you are lucky enough to stumble across. So I take it there is no game legal way to perform this action using skills at this time. Perhaps I will need to actually take levels in wizard to be able to cast disguise self, or level up stealth so that they don't see me in the first place. *sad* Poor disguise skill... it needs some love.
Well, if you can make the argument that hiding your armor is considered "minor details only" that would give you a +5 to the check. Another thing to consider is taking 20 on the Disguise check. Of course, this takes 20 times as long, so it would take you (1d3x10)x20 minutes to do it this way. Flavor-wise, that would probably include muffling your armor with cloth so it doesn't clank, possibly padding out certain portions so you look like a somewhat larger guy under a cloak rather than a guy with armor poking the cloak out at the shoulders and elbows, etc.
Have you considered glamered armor?
Indeed. Isn't this situation, in fact, the very reason for the existence of the otherwise pointless Glamered enhancement?
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Is there any game legal way to use the disguise skill (and a large cloak perhaps?) to hide the fact that you are wearing armor?
A character in plate could disguise themselves as being overweight. A overweight character could have limited mobility. So he could in fact put cloth in between the joints of his armor to limit the noise it makes.. but that would incur a move penalty I would think.
Is there any game legal way to use the disguise skill (and a large cloak perhaps?) to hide the fact that you are wearing armor?A character in plate could disguise themselves as being overweight. A overweight character could have limited mobility. So he could in fact put cloth in between the joints of his armor to limit the noise it makes.. but that would incur a move penalty I would think.
Cast Grease on your armor :nod:
But really. Just put on an oversized robe. You effectively look like a caster. You just sound like your pockets are full of iron...
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Have you considered glamered armor?
In a society game you have little control in the sorts of armor you are lucky enough to stumble across.
Is this a Pathfinder Society game you're talking about? (It's not in the PFS section of the messageboards, so I didn't presume so.)
According to Table 11.2 (page 24), if you have 18 PA points saved up from successful faction missions, you can buy any item available in the campaign up to 5250 gp cost. That would easily accomodate a +1 suit of armor (+1000 gp) with the glamered enhancement (+2700 gp).
So I take it there is no game legal way to perform this action using skills at this time.
Hey! That's not what people have said. We've provided our takes on how that might be reasonable.
Just buy hide armor.... it's already hidden! :P realistically you could hide a chain shirt...that is until you moved.
Just buy hide armor.... it's already hidden! :P realistically you could hide a chain shirt...that is until you moved.
Actually Chain shirts can be very quiet(own and have worn a chain shirt for years as costume etc) as long as your not seriously running. Even then they are not overly noisy. If you thread black silk ribbon through the links you can go a LONG way to minimizing shine and sound produced by even extreme exertions and it makes nearly no impact on manueverability.
A chain shirt with proper padding under it (the kind you would be wearing for combat anyway) and a belt around the waist can be quite quiet and usually makes no more noise than a nomral shirt if your walking around casually or moving quickly but evenly.
Everyone knows the best way to hide armor is to show alittle cleavage. :P
Personal House-rule:
If the armor would have under 0 skill check penalty it fits well under normal clothes.
Ex.: Masterwork Leather or Mithral chainshirt.
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Having seen a lot of medieval armors in my hobbies, it would be pretty difficult to conceal this.
Now depends on the armor :
Anything up to chain mail COULD be concealed under a heavy cloak ... that is if you keep to dark corners and such places ... AND ... you don't wear any kind of helmet/head gear/head protection ...
Otherwise, you are just busted.
The suggestion above to use armour penalty sounds ok to me, but you'd also need ranks in disguise, and/or stealth, IMO.
Just buy hide armor.... it's already hidden! :P realistically you could hide a chain shirt...that is until you moved.Actually Chain shirts can be very quiet(own and have worn a chain shirt for years as costume etc) as long as your not seriously running. Even then they are not overly noisy. If you thread black silk ribbon through the links you can go a LONG way to minimizing shine and sound produced by even extreme exertions and it makes nearly no impact on manueverability.
A chain shirt with proper padding under it (the kind you would be wearing for combat anyway) and a belt around the waist can be quite quiet and usually makes no more noise than a nomral shirt if your walking around casually or moving quickly but evenly.
Agreed. I've put a large long coat over my reenactment gear and gone into restaurants only to have the waitstaff look at me in total shock and surprise when I take the coat off and am amoured cap a pé in chain and random bits of plate.
The hardest (or impossible) parts of armour to hide would be the joints on your more "full" armours. "Full" plate, for example, often has haute guards (the large "fins" extending upwards from the shoulder), besagews (round plates that are attached to other pieces to defend the inside of the knee & elbow joints and sometimes the armpit) and the like... all of which would be too large to realistically fit under any garment without notice. Any joint protection with lames (plates that slide over each other to add flexibility) would bind... that means spaulders & pauldrons (shoulders), full knee cops, full elbow cops, and faulds (hip/waist protection). All of the rigid protection, however, can be hidden under overlarge clothing without too much issue if properly fitted... that means rerebrace & vambrace (upper arm and forearm), cuisse & greave (thigh and shin/calf), and a breast & backplate.
In fact, many LARPs have had to institute rules disallowing armour to be hidden under garb so that referees can tell who is armoured and who isn't.
For game purposes, I think most posters here are on the right track to say that a disguise check modified by the armour penalty would be suitable. In my game, I would require a more heavily armoured character to strip their armour of its more complex joints (and thus reducing its AC) before even allowing such a check.
just play a really scrawny female Tian-Min and wear a mithril chain shirt (or the equivalent) underneath a really loose fitting kimono. if you do this, you may have to take certain precautions to be understood. being japanese may not be your thing, but it justifies the kimono.
I own and wear a suit of chainmail. It would not be hard to hide. Anything bigger than that though (or with plates) is going to be rather tricky though.
For game purposes, I think most posters here are on the right track to say that a disguise check modified by the armour penalty would be suitable. In my game, I would require a more heavily armoured character to strip their armour of its more complex joints (and thus reducing its AC) before even allowing such a check.I will reiterate my earlier assertion that the inverse of AC value of the armor's "base type" rather than the Check Penalty should be the way to go.
Masterwork armor shouldn't reduce a Disguise check penalty, and Masterwork Studded Leather should still have some penalty. As Clockwork says, Full Plate should have a considerable penalty, and a -9 inverse of it's armor value rather than the mere -6 normally applied to Dex. and certain physical checks seems more in line.
Also, as Clockwork states, it would be necessary to remove pieces and lower the AC value. Using an inverse of the AC value thus is a no-brainer in this case. "What's my AC going to be if I lower my check penalty by 2?" ask the Player. Well, now the answer is clear without more haggling over things that are outside the normal rules.
FWIW,
Rez
I like your idea of using an inverse of the base protective value to modify the disguise check. I must have missed that in my first reading. It doesn't really account for bulkier armours that have less protective value, but it's still a relatively easy rule of thumb to follow with a fair amount of diversity.
I disagree a bit that masterwork armour shouldn't lower the penalty though, but I think that's just a difference in how I picture the fluff than any real game rules reason. I make armour (for stage, LARP, and reenactment) in real life, mostly I make what can be referred to as "munitions grade" armour. That is a nice way of saying "one size fits most" which was the historical standard. When I think of masterwork armour in game, I think of the pieces I took the extra time and effort to fit more closely to the intended wearer, where I used articulations with smaller tolerances to to produce a smoother moving piece, things such as that. Some of those factors would make it easier to hide armour, mainly a cleaner fit would allow the character to wear clothes closer to their actual size and would have less excess strap material to bind down.
Just hope that your game is played in a really cold climate. Large heavy coats and cloaks can go a along way to hinding anything underneath.
Look at the outside bar scene in 'Ladyhawke' when Mouse has just escaped from the dungeons for what a hooded cloak can cover and how well.
Most non rigid armors can be hidden relatively well. Plus the more rigid the armor and the more of the body it coveres the less likely you are that you can get away with your armor not showing.
A chain shirt is definately hidable though, as is glamored armor and the Celestial armor listed before.
