Entirely a GM call, but I wouldn't allow it. Mostly because any archer knows its bad to keep a bow strung all the time. It keeps it in a stressed state and over time weakens it. The string will also strech and lose power. As for it atcually fitting in the mouth of the opening, it depends on the bow and the quiver. Your standard longbow will be 6-10 inches maximum width strung, and other bows will be larger. Some quivers can fit that, but not most.
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From my reading of the magic item, I would say it does not store them strung.
From the PRD:
This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.
It references staves and spears as being the same size and shape of a bow generally. This points me to believe that they are speaking of an unstrung bow. Now, if this would just slow down game without adding anything, then feel free to say that it can hold them strung. :)
A character in the campaign I'm GMing has obtained an "Efficient Quiver". He asked me if he could stow his "strung" bow in the large compartment. I'm not sure if it is possible or not. It does not seem possible because an opening of a quiver does not seem wide enough to fit a strung bow into, but it is a magical after all so I am unsure.
Thanks
Strung as in the arrow is nocked?
No, that's just kinda dumb. It's not even a question of right or wrong or rules, you just glare at him a bit and say "No. That's really, really stupid. Seriously, come on now."
A character in the campaign I'm GMing has obtained an "Efficient Quiver". He asked me if he could stow his "strung" bow in the large compartment. I'm not sure if it is possible or not. It does not seem possible because an opening of a quiver does not seem wide enough to fit a strung bow into, but it is a magical after all so I am unsure.
ThanksStrung as in the arrow is nocked?
No, that's just kinda dumb. It's not even a question of right or wrong or rules, you just glare at him a bit and say "No. That's really, really stupid. Seriously, come on now."
Nobody said anything about a nocked arrow. Strung as in having its string on and ready to use. As this seems obvious to anyone with any degree of familiarity to a bow, allow me to inform you as to how a bow works. First you take your bow staff (the wooden bit) and depending on the type of bow (compound, recurve, etc.) you apply one side of the string to the bow. After that you bend the bow into shape (sometimes by hand but usually by way of an apparatus involving string longer than the bowstring) and apply the other side of the bowstring to the bow. because the bowstring is shorter than the bowstaff tension is created from the bow attempting to assume its original shape. This tension is enhanced from pulling the string back with an arrow and finally when you release the arrow it is propelled by the snap action created by the release of tension. This explanation was all overly simplified but it should give you an idea of how a bow works before you assume a "strung" bow means a "nocked" bow before calling someone "really, really stupid" for your own ignorance.
Nobody said anything about a nocked arrow. Strung as in having its string on and ready to use. As this seems obvious to anyone with any degree of familiarity to a bow, allow me to inform you as to how a bow works. First you take your bow staff (the wooden bit) and depending on the type of bow (compound, recurve, etc.) you apply one side of the string to the bow. After that you bend the bow into shape (sometimes by hand but usually by way of an apparatus involving string longer than the bowstring) and apply the other side of the bowstring to the bow. because the bowstring is shorter than the bowstaff tension is created from the bow attempting to assume its original shape. This tension is enhanced from pulling the string back with an arrow and finally when you release the arrow it is propelled by the snap action created by the release of tension. This explanation was all overly simplified but it should give you an idea of how a bow works before you assume a "strung" bow means a "nocked" bow before calling someone "really, really stupid" for your own ignorance.A character in the campaign I'm GMing has obtained an "Efficient Quiver". He asked me if he could stow his "strung" bow in the large compartment. I'm not sure if it is possible or not. It does not seem possible because an opening of a quiver does not seem wide enough to fit a strung bow into, but it is a magical after all so I am unsure.
ThanksStrung as in the arrow is nocked?
No, that's just kinda dumb. It's not even a question of right or wrong or rules, you just glare at him a bit and say "No. That's really, really stupid. Seriously, come on now."
Cranky~!
Protip: I don't really care how a bow works. Putting a bow already nocked is stupid regardless of your giant and needless paragraph :B
This explanation was all overly simplified but it should give you an idea of how a bow works before you assume a "strung" bow means a "nocked" bow before calling someone "really, really stupid" for your own ignorance.
Dismissive, insulting people are no fun at all. They tend to be ignorant of a number of things, particularly their own rudeness.
I enjoy this site because so many people here have the emotional maturity to disagree respectfully.
The OP had a fair question. Strung isn't the same as nocked.
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Entirely a GM call, but I wouldn't allow it. Mostly because any archer knows its bad to keep a bow strung all the time. It keeps it in a stressed state and over time weakens it. The string will also strech and lose power. As for it atcually fitting in the mouth of the opening, it depends on the bow and the quiver. Your standard longbow will be 6-10 inches maximum width strung, and other bows will be larger. Some quivers can fit that, but not most.
Of course, it is being stored in an extra-dimensional space, maybe time and stress don't work the same way there? *shrug*
But the item description does specifically state "bow" in the write-up.
This explanation was all overly simplified but it should give you an idea of how a bow works before you assume a "strung" bow means a "nocked" bow before calling someone "really, really stupid" for your own ignorance.Dismissive, insulting people are no fun at all. They tend to be ignorant of a number of things, particularly their own rudeness.
I enjoy this site because so many people here have the emotional maturity to disagree respectfully.
The OP had a fair question. Strung isn't the same as nocked.
Actually, ProfCirno's OP was rude and condescending to start with. Inconvieniance's response was actually a good explanation of how a bow works and was no more rude than the post he replied to.
No, that's just kinda dumb. It's not even a question of right or wrong or rules, you just glare at him a bit and say "No. That's really, really stupid. Seriously, come on now".
But anyway, I would say, No. Both the item description and passing knowledge of how bows are maintained would say this would not work like that.
An efficient quiver fits a bow. It doesn't restrict the state or condition of the bow. If its a colossal greatbow of a titan its still a bow and it still fits. And 6 of them fit no less.
As to whether its strung or not. That is pure semantics. There is no mechanic for stringing a bow. When you draw a bow regardless from what source it is ready to be used. Bows don't fatigue. Strings don't snap. Wood doesn't warp. And swords don't rust or get dull. Etc.
It D&D, not a medieval simulator. If you want to add simulation rules to you campaign go ahead but you'll be have to make a lot of your own rules for that. And I am not really sure that D&D or Pathfinder are really the best starting place for that anyhow.
Except that James already said it has to be unstrung.
I know, a quibble, but it seems like nobody noticed his one line post.
Slightly OT... but what kind of action would it be to string a bow? Move, standard or full round?
Slightly OT... but what kind of action would it be to string a bow? Move, standard or full round?
I've always included it as part of 'readying' the weapon. So move equivalent.
Which is why it's kind of moot, to me, whether the bow is strung or not since pulling it out of the case (standard) and then readying it (move equivalent) is already taking care of stringing it. You run into the same issue if you just have it on your back, you have to string it, or you are walking around damaging the bow by having it strung all the time. Six = Half Dozen.
EDIT: @Maezer. I agree, really moot, it's just semantics to me.
Slightly OT... but what kind of action would it be to string a bow? Move, standard or full round?
My Male Answering Syndrome is telling me (without looking at the book so I could be way off) that in the absence of an official rule, stringing a bow would be part of the move action it takes to ready the weapon. Not very realistic but it shoehorns into the rule already given.
Zo
There are things, like sneezing, for which no rules exist, and no rules are wanted.
I'd put stringing a bow in that category.
Ask yourself this: Does worrying about every detail of a character's equipment make the game more fun?
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No rule exists for stringing a bow.
However, Real Life gets up in my face and tells me that, should I be so inclined to make a rule for it, I should make one like this:
Stringing a non-composite bow is a full-round action requiring a strength check of DC 10. For composite bows built for strength, each point of strength bonus above 0 adds a like ammount. To get really detailed, add the same size modifiers as the CMD size mods to the check for larger or smaller bows.
But Real Life isn't going to make me come up with rules for wet bowstrings, stretching strings, stressing bows, or maximum time a bow can remain strung. That way lies insanity!!
Thanks for the responses... it was just a random thought that crossed my mind. With the group I DM/play with, it would not be unexpected for questions/arguments like this to come up in the middle of a game.
The horsebow was stowed strung as can be seen in the website below.
Just click the link to see a perfect example of how to carry a strung bow.
horsebow quiver.
This is the website I got the image from, check it out, it'll be informative.
Grozer horsebows
By the way, not all unstrung bows look like wooden staves. Horsebows have a distinct 'C' shape when unstrung.
Actually, ProfCirno's OP was rude and condescending to start with. Inconvieniance's response was actually a good explanation of how a bow works and was no more rude than the post he replied to.
I meant to address Prof Cirno's comments. Inconvenient put him in his place, and rightly so.
For the more visually oriented among us this little video covers 3 ways to do it.
I'd call it a standard action that provokes AoOs, and be kind enough to the bow-boys that it's not likely to come up often.
You can't quick draw wands in Pathfinder.You're correct that the Quick Draw feat doesn't apply to wands.
The Efficient Quiver, "can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow" which generally includes wands. The larger pockets are sized about right for rods and staves.
I've seen more than one GM interpret, "the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard." to mean that any item in the quiver can be drawn, "As if drawing an arrow from a quiver or a weapon from a scabbard."
The item is written a little vaguely, so I can see a ruling going either way. If you know of a ruling or FAQ that specifically addresses the efficient quiver, I'd love to see it.
Does anybody know the answer to Mr. Blueluck's question? If it is at all possible to draw wands and/or staves more quickly by way of an efficient quiver, I would very much like to know!
Perhaps you could help answer this one, James?
No rule exists for stringing a bow.
However, Real Life gets up in my face and tells me that, should I be so inclined to make a rule for it, I should make one like this:
Stringing a non-composite bow is a full-round action requiring a strength check of DC 10. For composite bows built for strength, each point of strength bonus above 0 adds a like ammount. To get really detailed, add the same size modifiers as the CMD size mods to the check for larger or smaller bows.
But Real Life isn't going to make me come up with rules for wet bowstrings, stretching strings, stressing bows, or maximum time a bow can remain strung. That way lies insanity!!
I agree however i would like to suggest a -2 to the dc for every feat you have invested in that bow so focus would be -2 dc specialization -4 dc ect.
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Basically, you just don't want to penalize the player for attempting to store his bow properly instead of just carrying it around strung all the time.
Most players just walk around with their bow out anyways, eh? A friend of mine, in one of his first d&d games, carried around a big 2-handed sword without a sheath. He literally could not put it away lol.
Trust me, while it can be really funny, it's also all about breaking the reality of the world. If someone wants to try to do things right, take it at that value and go with it. Don't make them regret ever wanting to do things the "right" way.
So I resurrect this thread months and months after it dies so to ask my own related question and I get passed over by everyone as they run to help the long gone OP.
It's no wonder there are so many duplicate threads from people not using the search function! What's the point of even trying?
:P
So I resurrect this thread months and months after it dies so to ask my own related question and I get passed over by everyone as they run to help the long gone OP.
It's no wonder there are so many duplicate threads from people not using the search function! What's the point of even trying?
:P
How many people are going to have this thread in their history vs how many will see the start of it?
-James
It doesn't take much to check the time stamps and actually read the thread.
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Actually, it takes a bit to remember to check timestamps on threads, since most forum viewers don't expect frequent thread rezzes. Thus, 95% of the time, reading timestamps is nothing more than a waste of time for them. Whether that opinion is correct or not doesn't really matter. :)
Remember, you could have left this one buried and started a new thread with that question.
As far as your specific question, I don't see why you couldn't draw wands and or staves from the quiver with the same efficiency you could pull them out of a handy haversack, or from a belt holster.
Page 186 of the CRB talks a bit about this:
Draw or Sheathe a Weapon:
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack, or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon is a free action.
Here we see a move action for drawing weapons or weapon-like objects. A weapon gets a bonus from a high bab, or from quickdraw, but we see that the weapon-like object is left behind.
Under table 8-2 actions in combat, we see that retrieving a stored item is a move action that provokes. Boo.
Retrieving an item from a handy haversack is a move action that doesn't provoke. Better.
The key like about an efficient quiver is "The quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard."
The fact that both quiver and scabbard are included here forces me to believe that there is, in fact, a distinction between how quickly you can draw ammunition and how quickly you can draw a weapon or weapon-like object.
The benefit here is that drawing from a quiver or scabbard does not provoke attacks of opportunity, so it has the same general benefit as a handy haversack in that regard. Ammunition would be a free action to draw, while a weapon or weapon-like object would be a move action. Weapons would be able to benefit from quick draw, but not weapon-like objects.
That being said, while I don't think its overpowering to allow quick draw to apply to wands, I also don't see a reason to particularly allow wand users to become more powerful. In this case, I would probably cause wands and other weapon-like objects to function as stated above.
So I resurrect this thread months and months after it dies so to ask my own related question and I get passed over by everyone as they run to help the long gone OP.
It's no wonder there are so many duplicate threads from people not using the search function! What's the point of even trying?
:P
I'll take the hit for that one sorry.
About using wands quicker it seems by RAW the only thing you could do is make an item for it perhaps a braclet item that can store different wands.
Or convince your dm to let you use the springloaded wrist sheath from the old AA book Spring Loaded Sheath
Forgive me for not reading through the entire thread. But the concern about an efficient and some other comments about drawing a wand seem disconnected to me. With that being said, I seem to remember a bracer from the Dungeonscape book that held up to 5 wands and had strings attached to each wand and one of your fingers. Essentially flex a finger and bingo you have a wand in hand. I believe replacing the wand was a move action, but if you are interested you could take some time and look it up.
If this is not pertinent to the discussion then feel free to flag it is not part of the discussion.
Just my 2 cp.
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Slightly OT... but what kind of action would it be to string a bow? Move, standard or full round?I've always included it as part of 'readying' the weapon. So move equivalent.
Which is why it's kind of moot, to me, whether the bow is strung or not since pulling it out of the case (standard) and then readying it (move equivalent) is already taking care of stringing it. You run into the same issue if you just have it on your back, you have to string it, or you are walking around damaging the bow by having it strung all the time. Six = Half Dozen.
EDIT: @Maezer. I agree, really moot, it's just semantics to me.
SO can a character ready a bow with a free action if that character has quick draw?
I have to respectfully comment that this line of discussion is a bit unneccessary. If these particular questions are a part of the fun in a particular game, then go for it. If not, don't worry about it. I understand the need for some realism and game balance, but this is a fantasy game after all. Fun is first and foremost!!
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It doesn't take much to check the time stamps and actually read the thread.So I resurrect this thread months and months after it dies so to ask my own related question and I get passed over by everyone as they run to help the long gone OP.
It's no wonder there are so many duplicate threads from people not using the search function! What's the point of even trying?
:P
How many people are going to have this thread in their history vs how many will see the start of it?
-James
Be nice. Everyone has the right to ask questions as they feel the need. Considering the length of this thread and the number of search results I got the last time I tried that, this may sometimes happen. We're all gamers, right?
Slightly OT... but what kind of action would it be to string a bow? Move, standard or full round?I've always included it as part of 'readying' the weapon. So move equivalent.
Which is why it's kind of moot, to me, whether the bow is strung or not since pulling it out of the case (standard) and then readying it (move equivalent) is already taking care of stringing it. You run into the same issue if you just have it on your back, you have to string it, or you are walking around damaging the bow by having it strung all the time. Six = Half Dozen.
EDIT: @Maezer. I agree, really moot, it's just semantics to me.
SO can a character ready a bow with a free action if that character has quick draw?
I have to respectfully comment that this line of discussion is a bit unneccessary. If these particular questions are a part of the fun in a particular game, then go for it. If not, don't worry about it. I understand the need for some realism and game balance, but this is a fantasy game after all. Fun is first and foremost!!
Yep, as I said, I personally treat it as part of the ready weapon action. If you can do it as a free action, or a swift, or a move, or whatever, then it's part of that action.
I agree, getting too bogged down in minutia is bad, so I just consider stringign/unstringing the bow as part of it. Now, if your bowstring snaps or is damaged in a sunder, you're gonna have to take some time to fix that. Generally, one end is fixed, and the other is unhookable. Once the string is broken/damaged, you need to reattach the permanent side to be able to quickly restring it.