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Pathfinder has very well thought out rules creating and pricing intelligent magic items.
My question is ... can a character simply decide to create an intelligent item, assuming he has the correct feat? Assuming so, then the base price the character would actually pay for such an item, once calculated using the rules, would 50% of that total?
I ask because I cannot find anything in the rules that specifically addresses this. There is mention that only 1% of magic items are intelligent ... but is that specifically referring to a situation where a character with the right feat WANTS to create one? The rules seem more geared toward showing the DM HOW to create and price one for inclusion in his game and less for the player who wants to make one for himself, in other words.
Thanks!
This is interesting, I've never had a case where the PCs actively tried making an intelligent magic item. But, if one were to discover the process, in game, I'd certainly let them create one. Generally, I very rarely put intelligent items in my games, if ever. So, the likelihood of the PCs knowing anything about them are slim. I certainly won't stop them from creating one if that's what they want to do however.
We house-ruled that intelligent items must have a soul. And to create one you do a modified Resurrection (good version that requires the soul to be willing), or a modified Magic Jar (evil version that forces an unwilling soul).
On of my players a few years back wanted to come back as a weapon but still gain XP!
Pathfinder has very well thought out rules creating and pricing intelligent magic items.
My question is ... can a character simply decide to create an intelligent item, assuming he has the correct feat? Assuming so, then the base price the character would actually pay for such an item, once calculated using the rules, would 50% of that total?
I ask because I cannot find anything in the rules that specifically addresses this. There is mention that only 1% of magic items are intelligent ... but is that specifically referring to a situation where a character with the right feat WANTS to create one? The rules seem more geared toward showing the DM HOW to create and price one for inclusion in his game and less for the player who wants to make one for himself, in other words.
Thanks!
Yes, a PC can craft an intelligent magic item just as he could any other magic item (subject to all the same limitations). Doing so would (generally) cost half of the market price value.
In D&D v3.5 there was an additional restriction: A character had to be at least 15th (caster?) level before crafting an intelligent magic item. If this additional limitation still exists in Pathfinder, I have NOT been able to find it.
As when creating ANY magic item, consult with your GM first.
As when creating ANY magic item, consult with your GM first.
Sounds like a commercial for Enzyte, or Lipitore. However you spell them. "As always, consult your doctor before using intelligent magic items. Side effects may include delusions of grandeur, arguments with equipment, or impotence."
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As when creating ANY magic item, consult with your GM first.Sounds like a commercial for Enzyte, or Lipitore. However you spell them. "As always, consult your doctor before using intelligent magic items. Side effects may include delusions of grandeur, arguments with equipment, or impotence."
LOL ...
OK, so, from the sounds of it, according to the rules, one can create an intelligent magic item as long as he has the neccessary item creation feat and is willing and able to pay the costs associated as detailed in the magic item section of the book. There is no other requirement (again, per the rules).
There are various interesting additional requirements or ruling that some of you would or have added at your table but these are all houserules.
Are we all pretty much in agreement on this?
I just really want to make sure I have this correct according to the rules ...
Thanks!
OK, so, from the sounds of it, according to the rules, one can create an intelligent magic item as long as he has the neccessary item creation feat and is willing and able to pay the costs associated as detailed in the magic item section of the book. There is no other requirement (again, per the rules).
There are various interesting additional requirements or ruling that some of you would or have added at your table but these are all houserules.
Are we all pretty much in agreement on this?
I just really want to make sure I have this correct according to the rules ...
Thanks!
Yes, I think that's right. If you come across that level 15 rule in Pathfinder, please let me know.
I've always taken that 1% of items are magical to mean that 1% of items crafted randomly gain sentience. I always make sure and roll for every item my players craft just for the heck of it.
From the section on magical items there doesn't appear to be any reason a PC couldn't craft a an intelligent magical item. So long as they pay the extra 500gp for sentience.
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I've always taken that 1% of items are magical to mean that 1% of items crafted randomly gain sentience. I always make sure and roll for every item my players craft just for the heck of it.
From the section on magical items there doesn't appear to be any reason a PC couldn't craft a an intelligent magical item. So long as they pay the extra 500gp for sentience.
... and the additional gold over and above the initial 500 extra for the added senses, abilities etc that sentience brings ...
Yeah, that does indeed seem to be how the rules read.
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I've always taken that 1% of items are magical to mean that 1% of items crafted randomly gain sentience. I always make sure and roll for every item my players craft just for the heck of it.
Yes except that the rules also say that a certain percentage of magic items glow, but they specify that you choose whether or not they do this when you create them (and that the choice is binding).
Not that I don't think random sentience isn't a hilarious idea :)
I've always taken that 1% of items are magical to mean that 1% of items crafted randomly gain sentience. I always make sure and roll for every item my players craft just for the heck of it.
From the section on magical items there doesn't appear to be any reason a PC couldn't craft a an intelligent magical item. So long as they pay the extra 500gp for sentience.
... and the additional gold over and above the initial 500 extra for the added senses, abilities etc that sentience brings ...
Yeah, that does indeed seem to be how the rules read.
Well yeah, but you can just pay an extra 500gp and make a +1 longsword have a 10 Int/Wis/Cha with 30ft senses and empathy. It'd have an alignment and give a negative level to the wrong wielder as well.
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Well yeah, but you can just pay an extra 500gp and make a +1 longsword have a 10 Int/Wis/Cha with 30ft senses and empathy. It'd have an alignment and give a negative level to the wrong wielder as well.I've always taken that 1% of items are magical to mean that 1% of items crafted randomly gain sentience. I always make sure and roll for every item my players craft just for the heck of it.
From the section on magical items there doesn't appear to be any reason a PC couldn't craft a an intelligent magical item. So long as they pay the extra 500gp for sentience.
... and the additional gold over and above the initial 500 extra for the added senses, abilities etc that sentience brings ...
Yeah, that does indeed seem to be how the rules read.
Right - good point.
Creative Director
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Personally, I think we might have made it a little TOO easy for casters to create intelligent items.
My take: Intelligent items should be relatively rare. They're pretty powerful, since they can give a character "extra" actions on their turn, and they're also very flavorful. They're also pretty complex; every time you add a new personality to a group, be it a new player character or a new cohort or a new summoned minion or a new intelligent item or whatever, things get more complex at the game table.
Certainly, intelligent items will remain quite rare in official Pathfinder products and adventures. The final line of the first paragraph on the subject on page 532 bears this out: "In general, less than 1% of magic items have intelligence."
I'd honestly be okay with changing the cost for intelligence up to 50,000 gp or something like that... basically, twice the cost of a true resurrection, since you're basically creating a new form of life rather than restoring an existing consciousness to life. Alternatively, I'd say that the 500 gp price stays the same but you have to FIND an intelligence to put into the weapon, which means something like casting trap the soul or soul bind or miracle or wish or otherwise bargaining with (if you're good) or forcing (if you're evil) a soul to inhabit your item.
Then again, disjunction would just ruin your day.
Only for a few rounds.
With that second part in mind (putting an existing soul into an object) I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the first person to transfer their soul into a suit of armor and animate it.
"An object is not subject to critical hits or sneak attacks."
Then again, disjunction would just ruin your day.
Durring the final battle in my last campaign, the fighter tank in our group jumped in the way of beam that was draining a god's power for annother god. It was one of many epic things that happened in the last round of combat. The player spent 1/2 the campaign getting his magic, adamantine armor made for him, and was quite proud of it. The GM had the character's soul implanted in the armor. We errected a statue of him in honor and placed his equipment on it. The statue animated, and is now the eternal guardian of the city.
This, in my mind is how inteligent items should be made. Epic things that result in death, or souls being permanently bound.
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Creative Director
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With that second part in mind (putting an existing soul into an object) I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the first person to transfer their soul into a suit of armor and animate it.
"An object is not subject to critical hits or sneak attacks."
Then again, disjunction would just ruin your day.
Nor can an object move on its own. It's a pretty rough trade off. ;-)
If an object CAN move on its own, it's best handled as an animated object or construct... at which point it IS subject to crits and sneak attacks, of course...
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With that second part in mind (putting an existing soul into an object) I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the first person to transfer their soul into a suit of armor and animate it.
"An object is not subject to critical hits or sneak attacks."
Then again, disjunction would just ruin your day.Nor can an object move on its own. It's a pretty rough trade off. ;-)
If an object CAN move on its own, it's best handled as an animated object or construct... at which point it IS subject to crits and sneak attacks, of course...
I did mention it would have to be animated, and animated objects are the exception to the rule that constructs can be crit/sneak-attacked.
Assuming the armor has gauntlets of some form the player could still use weapons and cast spells, though they lose their con score.More a funny scenario than broken and it would cost 15,500gp anyway (500 for "intelligent item" transfer, 15,000 for animation).
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I can well imagine a human and elf falling in love and, fifty years later, the wizened human willingly passing her soul (or at least imprinting her personality) into a weapon or shield for her beloved to use. Or a dwarf passing his personality into a weapon to be used by his descendants.
In the cosmos of Golarion, I wonder what Pharasma's opinion of such things is.
or just play a gearsman...
Or create a mechanic (similar to reincarnate) that brings a character back as a gearsman....
I fixed that for you.
With that second part in mind (putting an existing soul into an object) I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the first person to transfer their soul into a suit of armor and animate it.
"An object is not subject to critical hits or sneak attacks."
Then again, disjunction would just ruin your day.Nor can an object move on its own. It's a pretty rough trade off. ;-)
If an object CAN move on its own, it's best handled as an animated object or construct... at which point it IS subject to crits and sneak attacks, of course...
Two of the powers available provide an item to move on it's own. Specifically power 46~50 and power 76~80... however that doesn't change the fact that your answer covers what to do in those situations rather easily... the only real question at that point is what size the item is (and that is covered again elsewhere in the rules so it's all good).
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Personally, I think we might have made it a little TOO easy for casters to create intelligent items.
My take: Intelligent items should be relatively rare. They're pretty powerful, since they can give a character "extra" actions on their turn, and they're also very flavorful. They're also pretty complex; every time you add a new personality to a group, be it a new player character or a new cohort or a new summoned minion or a new intelligent item or whatever, things get more complex at the game table.
Certainly, intelligent items will remain quite rare in official Pathfinder products and adventures. The final line of the first paragraph on the subject on page 532 bears this out: "In general, less than 1% of magic items have intelligence."
I'd honestly be okay with changing the cost for intelligence up to 50,000 gp or something like that... basically, twice the cost of a true resurrection, since you're basically creating a new form of life rather than restoring an existing consciousness to life. Alternatively, I'd say that the 500 gp price stays the same but you have to FIND an intelligence to put into the weapon, which means something like casting trap the soul or soul bind or miracle or wish or otherwise bargaining with (if you're good) or forcing (if you're evil) a soul to inhabit your item.
Thanks James !!!!
Nor can an object move on its own. It's a pretty rough trade off. ;-)If an object CAN move on its own, it's best handled as an animated object or construct... at which point it IS subject to crits and sneak attacks, of course...
How about carpets of flying? One of my players in a game I ran made an intelligent flying carpet (named, unfortunately, "Shaggy") that used to chauffer him around the battle field. :)
I like having lots of random sentient items myself ^ _^ I've got no problem with anyone who's got the chump change making them.
Furniliars anyone?
I like having lots of random sentient items myself ^ _^ I've got no problem with anyone who's got the chump change making them.
Furniliars anyone?
LOL! Like the chest from Discworld ...
I think it would be hilarious for a Headband of intellect to be sentient...
So, when you make those knowledge checks, it's literally the headband telling you the information. Maybe even shouting it.
"Oh my god Happy look out Ahhh."
LOL! Like the chest from Discworld ...I like having lots of random sentient items myself ^ _^ I've got no problem with anyone who's got the chump change making them.
Furniliars anyone?
...also The Luggage is awesome.
They're pretty powerful, since they can give a character "extra" actions on their turn, and they're also very flavorful.
This can get broken, Lets say we have a warrior who wants to make his sword Intelligent. He could pay the 500 for Intelligent, 400 (200x2) to up its wisdom and intelligence to 11 then pay 1200 for each level one spell he wants to be able to cast 3/day. What comes to mind is wizard shield spell and cleric Divine Favor. So his two handed Greatsword +3 now can give him a plus 4 AC frist round while he is charging into battle, then next round, up his attack and Damage by 3. All for the grand total of 3300 gold. This seems to be abusive, there are reason sheild is only a self only spell. While if he had to activate these spells himself it would be balanced but as it stands, because the item is intelligent these are free buffing actions.
How would other DM's handle this? Could you say the sword cant cast shield or divine bond on you cause its self only? The sword could cast them on itself but since its not his skill your fighting with Divine bond would be useless. Dont know how to handle shield. I can see these free buffs and actions being very abused.
They're pretty powerful, since they can give a character "extra" actions on their turn, and they're also very flavorful.This can get broken, Lets say we have a warrior who wants to make his sword Intelligent. He could pay the 500 for Intelligent, 400 (200x2) to up its wisdom and intelligence to 11 then pay 1200 for each level one spell he wants to be able to cast 3/day. What comes to mind is wizard shield spell and cleric Divine Favor. So his two handed Greatsword +3 now can give him a plus 4 AC frist round while he is charging into battle, then next round, up his attack and Damage by 3. All for the grand total of 3300 gold. This seems to be abusive, there are reason sheild is only a self only spell. While if he had to activate these spells himself it would be balanced but as it stands, because the item is intelligent these are free buffing actions.
How would other DM's handle this? Could you say the sword cant cast shield or divine bond on you cause its self only? The sword could cast them on itself but since its not his skill your fighting with Divine bond would be useless. Dont know how to handle shield. I can see these free buffs and actions being very abused.
yes shield is a self only spell so the sword could only cast it on itself.