So a friend of mine wanted to play an arcane archer. He looked it over decided on a concept and all that but then read that in order for the Enhance Arrows special ability to work it needs to be used on a nonmagical arrow. Because of this he tossed the idea and made a different character.
His reasoning is that with the way it's worded the arrow cannot be effected by any other magic in order for the ability to be of any use. Now I'd agree that he can't try to use +1 arrows with the ability but he thinks that none of the other arcane archer abilities will stack with it (citing them as giving the arrows magical ability and thus making them magic arrows) or even fire them from a magical bow (again the bow imparts it's abilities on the arrows making them "magic arrows").
I think that they all stack. For example if a 3rd level arcane archer shot a nonmagical arrow from a +3 bow they could fire a +3 flaming arrow (+3 from the bow overlaps the +1 from the Enhance Arrow ability but grants flaming from the elemental part of the ability) and have it be Imbued with a fireball spell.
I think that this works my way because the bow (or even the Imbue Arrow ability) doesn't make the arrow magical but simply gets magic "on" the arrow so to speak. Like coating an arrow with poison makes it deliver magic the same way shooting it from a magic bow makes the arrow deliver the magic of the bow. My friend thinks that shooting the arrow form the bow makes it a magic arrow because it gets the +3 enhancement bonus form the bow.
Which one of us is right? If I could be pointed in the direction of an official ruling that would make this that much better. Thanks.
I think that this works my way because the bow (or even the Imbue Arrow ability) doesn't make the arrow magical but simply gets magic "on" the arrow so to speak. Like coating an arrow with poison makes it deliver magic the same way shooting it from a magic bow makes the arrow deliver the magic of the bow. My friend thinks that shooting the arrow form the bow makes it a magic arrow because it gets the +3 enhancement bonus form the bow.
This. You have it right. The magic bow gives its properties to any ammunition that it fires but does not actually make the ammunition a +3 Flaming Arrow (or whatever).
There is also this pretty important bit at the end of the Imbue Arrow ability.
The bonuses granted by a magic bow apply as normal to arrows that have been enhanced with this ability. Only the larger enhancement bonus applies. Duplicate abilities do not stack.
It tells you how Imbue Arrow interacts with magic bows. This pretty much states that Imbued Arrows can be fired from magic bows.
Nonmagical arrow means exactly that--the arrow has not been enhanced using the Craft Weapons and Armor feat to be an actual magical arrow. Reading anything further into that makes the entire class somewhat useless...
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Nonmagical arrow means exactly that--the arrow has not been enhanced using the Craft Weapons and Armor feat to be an actual magical arrow. Reading anything further into that makes the entire class somewhat useless...
Agreed. By the time you reach a level high enough to qualify for an arcane archer (or any prestige class), you are at a level that the game pretty much ASSUMES you will have a magic weapon. To create a prestige class that would force you to not use your magic weapon would be very poor design.
There are a couple that WotC produced. They even involve you breaking magic items to get your power boosts. And yes, they were as useless/annoying as they sound.
Also, Vow of Poverty shenanigans.
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Also, Vow of Poverty shenanigans.
The Vow is nice, and allows for something more than a few people can't wrap their minds around. Adventuring without gear of any kind.
Admittedly, it was not meant for monks(and maybe druids) so much as allowing a new type of character to be played. And it is all to easy to get rid of it when all you need is one cursed item that can't be given away.
I wouldn't allow anyone to take it after 3rd level though, because someone has already said they waited till 18th level to take, after the had used all the magical books that upped their stats. I don't like that.
Yeah. I was just pointing out that "I don't use magic stuff!" as a character concept has been tried a couple of times by WotC in 3.5, none of which worked well. It was hard to strike a true balance. They've produced some nice options in 4e, but the system lends itself much better to simply balancing mechanics due to its modular style. It basically says "Add +X to hit and damage every Y levels" and you're done. Harder to do with the balance that Pathfinder is trying to strike.
Yeah. I was just pointing out that "I don't use magic stuff!" as a character concept has been tried a couple of times by WotC in 3.5, none of which worked well. It was hard to strike a true balance. They've produced some nice options in 4e, but the system lends itself much better to simply balancing mechanics due to its modular style. It basically says "Add +X to hit and damage every Y levels" and you're done. Harder to do with the balance that Pathfinder is trying to strike.
The 3.5 classes were put in more for the people who were whinning that they lost it in the transition from 2e to 3e. Pretty sure the Forsaker was an optional 1e class that was completely busted.
It was also sort of required for the 1e Barbarian (if I remember correctly). It couldn't use any magic items, except maybe a magic weapon, and was rewarded for breaking other magic things. Like I said, it's been tried, but that doesn't mean it works well in the 3.x system. It sort of worked previous when game balance was either non-existent or hinged entirely on the GM picking the right stuff. It sort of works in 4e where magic items are limited by level and most of your nifty things to do come from your "spells", "maneuvers", "rages" or whatever your class calls its attack abilities. There is a huge thread here (and on other forums) trying to create a viable low/no magic 3.x environment. The results are contentious at best.
You could explain it as the Arcane Archer draws the non-magic arrow, imbues it with his AA'ness, then shoots it from his magic bow, which will add *its* magic after the fact (non-stacking of course).
So in other words, get a + whatever strength bow but skip the special quality enchantments like flaming or shock, since the AA can imbue the arrows at will. Right?
More or less. You might still want to enhance the bow with things like "Seeking" or the like, since your Enhance Arrow ability doesn't grant it.
Alternately, you might give your bow, say, Frost and use Enhance Arrow to give it, say, Shock, so that your arrows do 1d6 cold damage and 1d6 electricity damage.
So in other words, get a + whatever strength bow but skip the special quality enchantments like flaming or shock, since the AA can imbue the arrows at will. Right?
Well you should be skipping those enchantments anyway since they are sub-par to straight +hit/dmg. Also the class abilities would stack in that you could have a Shocking Burst bow and, at higher levels, imbue your bow to add Flaming Burst to all your arrows.
I'm playing an arcane archer right now and it's interesting to see the difference between AA, Ranger and Archer Fighter. In the end I think I'll like the AA best, but in raw dmg the Ftr is still tops and Ranger will likely be best in out of combat utility.
More or less. You might still want to enhance the bow with things like "Seeking" or the like, since your Enhance Arrow ability doesn't grant it.
True, but AA does get Seeker Arrow which while limited use per day is much better :)