Enemy starts on an ally outside your reach...now what?
If you can't prevent him to make the killing blow with a range weapon, a spell, an ability, a run and hit, then well, you just cry.
In my opinion, a coup de grace shouldn't even be a full action.
Start counting up your diamonds?
Can't without some form of Interrupt action.
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Intimidation/bluff check to distract the opponent long enough to allow you to reach them. Perhaps diplomacy also. Sort of "keep them talking and maybe they won't do it" approach you see in dramas, especially cop shows, where they talk the killer/suspect out of doing it just before arresting them.
Improvised weapon and throw something at them and hopefully disrupt their attempt if they are within a reasonable throwing distance and there isn't any/much cover.
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The party Paladin in the game I GM for got paralyzed (really bad roll) by a ghoul and the rest of the party was either incapacitated (harpy's song) or couldn't reach him, so the ghoul spent the next 3 rounds trying to Coup De Grace the bastard- to no success. The paladin passed all of his fort saves against the Coup De Grace and the ghould couldn't do enough damage to kill him otherwise.
Buuuuut if you aren't lucky enough to have a high enough Fort. save, then I guess you're out of luck. Most enemies will ignore someone that has fallen, preferring to take down more immediate threats first. If an enemy feels safe enough, cannot reach other targets, and/or is particularly evil, then they will take the time to Coup De Grace while the unfortunate victim's friends are still standing.
In a recent session the party lost their paladin to the orcish pirates due to a Coup de Grace. The pirate leader took the advantage of impaling the paladin with his bastard sword after the paladin had been smacked down to negative hp by the orcs summoners eidolon. Thing is, the pirate leader was down to -19 hp (20 con) and so, when he killed the paladin, he toppled over and fell down into the water, dead.
But no, if in his turn an enemy does a coup de grace on a part member, chances are he's gone. You could have a ranger ready an attack against anyone couping a helpless party member, but then you'd have to a) see it coming and b) kill the attacker with one shot, since just shooting at him won't stop him from landing a hit.
As with the ranger situation you could also have a spellcaster ready against someone couping your guy (gust of wind, color spray, glitterdust etc for lower level spells to prevent the attacekr from couping), or have a character ready a bull rush said attacker. But again, all of this rely on the players anticipating the coup, in which case you could just as well just do the actions directly instead of readying.
Coup de Gras is a full round action, so if you can do somethine before their next turn that makes them unable to finish the action.
Hold Person, Fear, Grapple, Bull Rush, Disarm, etc.
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Coup de Gras is a full round action, so if you can do somethine before their next turn that makes them unable to finish the action.
Hold Person, Fear, Grapple, Bull Rush, Disarm, etc.
This was how someone I used to play with interpreted it.
But I was under the impression that most full round actions complete at the end of the combatant's turn, with the exception of casting a 1 round spell, which goes off at the beginning of the combatant's next turn.
Coup de Gras is a full round action, so if you can do somethine before their next turn that makes them unable to finish the action.
Hold Person, Fear, Grapple, Bull Rush, Disarm, etc.
This was how someone I used to play with interpreted it.
But I was under the impression that most full round actions complete at the end of the combatant's turn, with the exception of casting a 1 round spell, which goes off at the beginning of the combatant's next turn.
Full Round actions complete at the beginning of the person's next turn. This is why full round action spells are a lot easier to interrupt. Usually, most people hand wave this because most actions are not life or death, and interrupting actions other than spells is more difficult, but in the case of a Coup de Grace, there are things you can do to stop the action, and your friends may want to try and save you.
Coup de Gras is a full round action, so if you can do somethine before their next turn that makes them unable to finish the action.By this rationale, couldn't you interrupt a Fighter's iterative attacks?
Rez
In theory yes, but the question becomes how many attacks would the fighter get off before he gets interrupted? This makes things very complicated, and you end up heading back toward the old D&D system of attacks taking a certain amount of time based on the weapon speed, etc. So for the sake of simplicity, the answer is no.
Hmm, I hadn't noticed that before. But it appears that Charender's interpretation matches a reading of the rules
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
That seems fairly straightforward in its meaning.The Combat Round
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world; there are 10 rounds in a minute of combat. A round normally allows each character involved in a combat situation to act.
Each round's activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds in order. When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
When the rules refer to a “full round”, they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
There is a difference between "Full-Round Action" (you pay your standard and move action, it completes on your turn) and "1 Full Round" (it finishes at the beginning of your next turn). The former include a Fighter's full attack, a Sorcerer's metamagicked spell, and a coup de grace. The latter includes Summon Monster type spells. Still, it's not a bad ruling for those who think Coup de Grace packs too much sting to just houserule it up to a "1 Full Round" activation time.
Full Round actions complete at the beginning of the person's next turn. This is why full round action spells are a lot easier to interrupt. Usually, most people hand wave this because most actions are not life or death, and interrupting actions other than spells is more difficult, but in the case of a Coup de Grace, there are things you can do to stop the action, and your friends may want to try and save you.Coup de Gras is a full round action, so if you can do somethine before their next turn that makes them unable to finish the action.
Hold Person, Fear, Grapple, Bull Rush, Disarm, etc.
This was how someone I used to play with interpreted it.
But I was under the impression that most full round actions complete at the end of the combatant's turn, with the exception of casting a 1 round spell, which goes off at the beginning of the combatant's next turn.
Actually, I was just corrected on this point in a different thread. There is, in fact, a difference between 1-round actions and full-round actions. And that difference is what Pygon said - full-round actions finish during your turn, 1-round actions finish right before the start of you next turn.
There is a difference between "Full-Round Action" (you pay your standard and move action, it completes on your turn) and "1 Full Round" (it finishes at the beginning of your next turn). The former include a Fighter's full attack, a Sorcerer's metamagicked spell, and a coup de grace. The latter includes Summon Monster type spells. Still, it's not a bad ruling for those who think Coup de Grace packs too much sting to just houserule it up to a "1 Full Round" activation time.Hmm, I hadn't noticed that before. But it appears that Charender's interpretation matches a reading of the rules
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
That seems fairly straightforward in its meaning.The Combat Round
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world; there are 10 rounds in a minute of combat. A round normally allows each character involved in a combat situation to act.
Each round's activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds in order. When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
When the rules refer to a “full round”, they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
Not according to the PFSRD.
look here1 round spells, full attack actions, and metamagiced sorcerer spells are all listed under the same header.
1 round spells, full attack actions, and metamagiced sorcerer spells are all listed under the same header.
Yes, same header, with different results between them.
Not according to the PFSRD.
look here1 round spells, full attack actions, and metamagiced sorcerer spells are all listed under the same header.
From your link:
Sorcerers and bards must take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than a regular spell. If a spell's normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version of the spell is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard (except for spells modified by the Quicken Spell feat, which take 1 swift action to cast). Note that this isn't the same as a spell with a 1-round casting time. Spells that take a full-round action to cast take effect in the same round that you begin casting, and you are not required to continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration until your next turn.
Avoiding Coup de Grace's can be difficult. Basically, any time I have an ally downed in melee range of an enemy, I do whatever I can to get there, kill or push the enemy back, or pull the ally away.
It being a full-round action at least means that you usually have a round to act between the drop and the coup. This may be lost if there are more than one creature attacking (one drops, the other coup's right after). No way to stop that really.
Not according to the PFSRD.
look here1 round spells, full attack actions, and metamagiced sorcerer spells are all listed under the same header.
From your link:
Sorcerers and bards must take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than a regular spell. If a spell's normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version of the spell is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard (except for spells modified by the Quicken Spell feat, which take 1 swift action to cast). Note that this isn't the same as a spell with a 1-round casting time. Spells that take a full-round action to cast take effect in the same round that you begin casting, and you are not required to continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration until your next turn.
Good point, but the Metamagiced spells are the only thing under the full round action header that have that specific exclusion. That implies that it is the exception not the rule IMO.
Good point, but the Metamagiced spells are the only thing under the full round action header that have that specific exclusion. That implies that it is the exception not the rule IMO.
No, 1 round casting times are the exception. Full attack happens in same round it is intitiated. So does run, move through difficult terrain, withdraw, spontaneous metamagic, charge.
The point of being in the same section of the table is that the *action* used is the same - your whole full-round action.
Between metamagicked sorcerer spells (or a full-attack, or coup de grace) and a 1-round spell, you don't have any further actions spent. The time to complete is different is all.
Good point, but the Metamagiced spells are the only thing under the full round action header that have that specific exclusion. That implies that it is the exception not the rule IMO.No, 1 round casting times are the exception. Full attack happens in same round it is intitiated. So does run, move through difficult terrain, withdraw, and spontaneous metamagic.
Not Quite, look right below the section you quoted. Divine Casters that apply metamagic to a spontaneous spell do require a full round of concentration, and thus are subject to interruption for the entire round. There is a specific exemption listed for Arcane Metamagic that says that it is not the same as a full round spell cast. I don't see any other exceptions for any other full round actions.
Letting the full round actions happen during the player's turn is an abstraction that allows the game to flow smoother. That doesn't mean the those actions necessarily happen right at that moment.
Good point, but the Metamagiced spells are the only thing under the full round action header that have that specific exclusion. That implies that it is the exception not the rule IMO.No, 1 round casting times are the exception. Full attack happens in same round it is intitiated. So does run, move through difficult terrain, withdraw, and spontaneous metamagic.Not Quite, look right below the section you quoted. Divine Casters that apply metamagic to a spontaneous spell do require a full round of concentration, and thus are subject to interruption for the entire round. There is a specific exemption listed for Arcane Metamagic that says that it is not the same as a full round spell cast. I don't see any other exceptions for any other full round actions.
Letting the full round actions happen during the player's turn is an abstraction that allows the game to flow smoother. That doesn't mean the those actions necessarily happen right at that moment.
Sorry man, but you are wrong. Full Round action completes during the initiator's turn, like a full attack from a fighter. A spell with a 1 Round casting time (i.e. summon spells), something distinctly different, take a Full Round action but do not complete until just before their initiative on the next turn. If your suggestion is that Coup de Grace takes a Full Round action and therefore does not complete until the beginning of that character's next turn then so does a fighter's Full Attack, meaning no one capable of taking a 5-foot step in the intervening time would EVER be hit by a fighter's attacks.
Sorry man, but you are wrong. Full Round action completes during the initiator's turn, like a full attack from a fighter. A spell with a 1 Round casting time (i.e. summon spells), something distinctly different, take a Full Round action but do not complete until just before their initiative on the next turn. If your suggestion is that Coup de Grace takes a Full Round action and therefore does not complete until the beginning of that character's next turn then so does a fighter's Full Attack, meaning no one capable of taking a 5-foot step in the intervening time would EVER be hit by a fighter's attacks.Good point, but the Metamagiced spells are the only thing under the full round action header that have that specific exclusion. That implies that it is the exception not the rule IMO.No, 1 round casting times are the exception. Full attack happens in same round it is intitiated. So does run, move through difficult terrain, withdraw, and spontaneous metamagic.Not Quite, look right below the section you quoted. Divine Casters that apply metamagic to a spontaneous spell do require a full round of concentration, and thus are subject to interruption for the entire round. There is a specific exemption listed for Arcane Metamagic that says that it is not the same as a full round spell cast. I don't see any other exceptions for any other full round actions.
Letting the full round actions happen during the player's turn is an abstraction that allows the game to flow smoother. That doesn't mean the those actions necessarily happen right at that moment.
The rules are an abstraction. You have obviously never played Warhammer 40k where melee is assumed to be fluid and constantly in motion even if the models are not.
I never suggested that you could move away from a fighter in the middle of iterative attacks to avoid them. In fact, I specifically said that because of the way that the rules are abstracted, you cannot allow full attacks to be interrupted without having to add a huge and extremely complicated extra layer of rules on top of the combat rules.
The rules say that it takes a full round action to Coup de Grace someone. If you are going to use some very narrow interpretation of the rules to conclude that the CDG happens on the attackers turn, and thus deny your players a chance to save their friend from certain death, don't blame me for your lynching...
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Enemy starts on an ally outside your reach...now what?
Hope that someone has a Breath of Life Spell available?
At lower levels daze might give you enough time....
hmm, I wonder what a fey sorcerer's laughing touch would do. They can only make move actions.....
The rules are an abstraction. You have obviously never played Warhammer 40k where melee is assumed to be fluid and constantly in motion even if the models are not.
I never suggested that you could move away from a fighter in the middle of iterative attacks to avoid them. In fact, I specifically said that because of the way that the...
The rules are an abstraction of real life, simplified as to promote ease of play. I understand this. However the rules are clear in this regard and your interpretation is not backed up by any Rules As Written nor is it held by many people in this thread.
You have suggested that a Full Round action is like a 1 Round casting time spell in that it continues to happen and is interrupted until one round later, and since the CDG rules don't exist in a vaccuum and the same rules apply to both CDG and Full Attack the same rules would govern both.
If you want to houserule otherwise be my guest, but as a discussion of the rules you are incorrect.
The rules are an abstraction. You have obviously never played Warhammer 40k where melee is assumed to be fluid and constantly in motion even if the models are not.
I never suggested that you could move away from a fighter in the middle of iterative attacks to avoid them. In fact, I specifically said that because of the way that the...
The rules are an abstraction of real life, simplified as to promote ease of play. I understand this. However the rules are clear in this regard and your interpretation is not backed up by any Rules As Written nor is it held by many people in this thread.
You have suggested that a Full Round action is like a 1 Round casting time spell in that it continues to happen and is interrupted until one round later, and since the CDG rules don't exist in a vaccuum and the same rules apply to both CDG and Full Attack the same rules would govern both.
If you want to houserule otherwise be my guest, but as a discussion of the rules you are incorrect.
Not really. Spells are important, because they require concentration and thus concentration checks. A 1 round spell takes a full round of concentration. A 1 minute spells takes 10 rounds of concentration. Any damage during that time forces a concentrations check.
There is a special exemption for metamagiced spontaneous spells where it specifically states that it does not require a full round of concentration, and the effect comes into play on your turn. Other than where it states that 1 round spells come into play right before the players next turn, it doesn't say when the effects of full round actions comes into play in the SRD. I am hoping the actually PF rulebook has more details that the SRD.
The rules are an abstraction. You have obviously never played Warhammer 40k where melee is assumed to be fluid and constantly in motion even if the models are not.
I never suggested that you could move away from a fighter in the middle of iterative attacks to avoid them. In fact, I specifically said that because of the way that the...
The rules are an abstraction of real life, simplified as to promote ease of play. I understand this. However the rules are clear in this regard and your interpretation is not backed up by any Rules As Written nor is it held by many people in this thread.
You have suggested that a Full Round action is like a 1 Round casting time spell in that it continues to happen and is interrupted until one round later, and since the CDG rules don't exist in a vaccuum and the same rules apply to both CDG and Full Attack the same rules would govern both.
If you want to houserule otherwise be my guest, but as a discussion of the rules you are incorrect.
Not really. Spells are important, because they require concentration and thus concentration checks. A 1 round spell takes a full round of concentration. A 1 minute spells takes 10 rounds of concentration. Any damage during that time forces a concentrations check.
There is a special exemption for metamagiced spontaneous spells where it specifically states that it does not require a full round of concentration, and the effect comes into play on your turn. Other than where it states that 1 round spells come into play right before the players next turn, it doesn't say when the effects of full round actions comes into play in the SRD. I am hoping the actually PF rulebook has more details that the SRD.
You have it backwards. One round casting time spells come into effect at the beginning of the next round, everything else comes in immediately. I guess they just assumed their players weren't so stupid as to interpret things so completely backwards. It doesn't say I CAN'T use a survival roll to bypass damage reduction. Assuming because it doesn't state this in the rules that you CAN is moronic. You are reading the exception AS the rule.
I've been playing this game for 10 years and never has anyone insisted that it be spelled out that actions on your turn occur ON YOUR TURN. Not only is it intuitively obvious, and all other actions (move, standard, etc) specifically say they happen immediately, but to assume OTHERWISE completely breaks the game.
You have it backwards. One round casting time spells come into effect at the beginning of the next round....
No, they don't.
I guess they just assumed their players weren't so stupid as to interpret things so completely backwards.
It's more likely "they" assumed that people could actually read the rules as written.
I've been playing this game for 10 years and never has anyone insisted that it be spelled out that actions on your turn occur ON YOUR TURN.
You mean like in this section from the rules about spell casting times?:
"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed."
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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As for the OP question, this reminds me of what my ju-jitsu sensai used to say to a common question he received.
Q: Okay, you showed us how to defend against someone brandishing a knife against us, and how to defend against someone brandishing a gun at us, so what's the defense against when someone has a gun pressed in your ear, and they pull the trigger?
A: There is no defense at that point, it's too late. The trick is not to get into that situation in the first place.
I think the same thing applies here. If you're getting coup de graced, then it's too late (other than hoping you make your fort save). The key is not to get in that situation. Since it's a full round action to perform a CdG, (which, sorry Charender, is not the same a spell with a casting time of 1 round), then there should be time between whatever made you helpless and your attacker having a chance to CdG you for your allies to intervene and prevent the CdG from happening in the first place.
PS - in case you're wondering, the correct 1st defense against a gun is to give the guy with the gun your wallet.
You have it backwards. One round casting time spells come into effect at the beginning of the next round....No, they don't.
I guess they just assumed their players weren't so stupid as to interpret things so completely backwards.It's more likely "they" assumed that people could actually read the rules as written.
I've been playing this game for 10 years and never has anyone insisted that it be spelled out that actions on your turn occur ON YOUR TURN.You mean like in this section from the rules about spell casting times?:
"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed."
So you tell me that "No, they don't." Meaning that one round casting time spells DON'T happen at the beginning of your next turn. Okay.
Then you quote something that says EXPLICITLY what I had just said, one round casting time spells come into effect at the beginning of your next turn.
So which is it? You can't both agree with me and disagree with me in the same post and expect me to take you seriously.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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PS - in case you're wondering, the correct 1st defense against a gun is to give the guy with the gun your wallet.WRONG.
The correct defense is to throw your wallet away and run in the other direction. This will let you get away alive, as he has to chase the wallet or try to hit a moving target.
While that does have some merit, it could also piss off a guy with a gun and cause him to shoot. I prefer the 'don't piss of the guy with the gun' strategy, and am willing to show some faith that if he asked for my wallet, that's probably what he wants.
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While that does have some merit, it could also piss off a guy with a gun and cause him to shoot. I prefer the 'don't piss of the guy with the gun' strategy, and am willing to show some faith that if he asked for my wallet, that's probably what he wants.
If he really wants the wallet, he will go after it. If he doesn't, giving him the wallet doesn't get you free. You're still a sitting duck, easily shot and murdered. Same reason you don't get in a car or drive where he says to. You gun the engine and ram your car into something to hopefully launch him out or activate the airbags. Driving where he wants you to gets you to a secluded area where help is non-existant. Admittedly, I read this from an email, but it is sound advice to me. Accepting a robbers word on what he wants is possibly trusting in a psychopath.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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While that does have some merit, it could also piss off a guy with a gun and cause him to shoot. I prefer the 'don't piss of the guy with the gun' strategy, and am willing to show some faith that if he asked for my wallet, that's probably what he wants.If he really wants the wallet, he will go after it. If he doesn't, giving him the wallet doesn't get you free. You're still a sitting duck, easily shot and murdered. Same reason you don't get in a car or drive where he says to. You gun the engine and ram your car into something to hopefully launch him out or activate the airbags. Driving where he wants you to gets you to a secluded area where help is non-existant. Admittedly, I read this from an email, but it is sound advice to me. Accepting a robbers word on what he wants is possibly trusting in a psychopath.
See, there I agree with you - someone carjacking you and not throwing you out of the car and taking it away generally is going to have some malice in mind beyond robery.
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See, there I agree with you - someone carjacking you and not throwing you out of the car and taking it away generally is going to have some malice in mind beyond robery.
Checked up on Snopes. Looks like we're both right depending on the circumstances. :)
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Unless PF really changed things, 1 round and full round has not changed from 3.5.
Full round means that characters' round.
1 round means start at that character's round, and continues through every characters' next round until the original character's next round.
The part where it says "a spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action" really means the caster takes a full round, meaning he cannot take a move or standard. But the completion does not happen until that caster's next round.
Casting a Metamagic Spell: Sorcerers and bards must take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than a regular spell. If a spell's normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version of the spell is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard (except for spells modified by the Quicken Spell feat, which take 1 swift action to cast). Note that this isn't the same as a spell with a 1-round casting time. Spells that take a full-round action to cast take effect in the same round that you begin casting, and you are not required to continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration until your next turn. For spells with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the metamagic spell.
The bold clearly shows the meaning. A spell with casting time of 1 standard is increased to 1 full action. And then it clearly states it completes in the same round.
Only spells with casting time of 1 round (or longer) takes more than 1 round to cast.
In a recent session the party lost their paladin to the orcish pirates due to a Coup de Grace. The pirate leader took the advantage of impaling the paladin with his bastard sword after the paladin had been smacked down to negative hp by the orcs summoners eidolon. Thing is, the pirate leader was down to -19 hp (20 con) [...]
A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered [...]
A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions) [...]
How could the pirate make a coup de grâce (full-round action) if he was disabled?
You have it backwards. One round casting time spells come into effect at the beginning of the next round, everything else comes in immediately. I guess they just assumed their players weren't so stupid as to interpret things so completely...The rules are an abstraction. You have obviously never played Warhammer 40k where melee is assumed to be fluid and constantly in motion even if the models are not.
I never suggested that you could move away from a fighter in the middle of iterative attacks to avoid them. In fact, I specifically said that because of the way that the...
The rules are an abstraction of real life, simplified as to promote ease of play. I understand this. However the rules are clear in this regard and your interpretation is not backed up by any Rules As Written nor is it held by many people in this thread.
You have suggested that a Full Round action is like a 1 Round casting time spell in that it continues to happen and is interrupted until one round later, and since the CDG rules don't exist in a vaccuum and the same rules apply to both CDG and Full Attack the same rules would govern both.
If you want to houserule otherwise be my guest, but as a discussion of the rules you are incorrect.
Not really. Spells are important, because they require concentration and thus concentration checks. A 1 round spell takes a full round of concentration. A 1 minute spells takes 10 rounds of concentration. Any damage during that time forces a concentrations check.
There is a special exemption for metamagiced spontaneous spells where it specifically states that it does not require a full round of concentration, and the effect comes into play on your turn. Other than where it states that 1 round spells come into play right before the players next turn, it doesn't say when the effects of full round actions comes into play in the SRD. I am hoping the actually PF rulebook has more details that the SRD.
The thing is that I have been playing longer then that. From a time when melee attacks took time to land based on weapon speed.
The SRD clearly states that 1 round spells land at the beginning of the next turn, and metamagiced spontaneous spells take a full round action but land on the player's turn. The problem is that the default behavior for full round actions(that they land on the player's turn) isn't spelled out anywhere in the SRD.
For the record, most full round actions should land on the players turn, but Coup De Grace and 1 round spells should be exceptions to that rule.
As for not letting yourself get into that situation. That is a fine thought, but in a world where you can be paralyzed and rendered helpless with a single failed save, it is not a pratical suggestion.
Fighter walks into melee to keep the bad guys of his friends. Enemy wizard paralyzes fighter with hold person. Wizard's level 3 rogue minion CDG fighter and he dies. Now what exactly should the fighter have done differently? Not get into melee? Make his will save?
In a recent session the party lost their paladin to the orcish pirates due to a Coup de Grace. The pirate leader took the advantage of impaling the paladin with his bastard sword after the paladin had been smacked down to negative hp by the orcs summoners eidolon. Thing is, the pirate leader was down to -19 hp (20 con) [...]A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered [...]
A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions) [...]
How could the pirate make a coup de grâce (full-round action) if he was disabled?
Diehard feat most likely.
Nope, DM fiat. You're still staggered while using Diehard.
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Diehard feat most likely.Nope, DM fiat. You're still staggered while using Diehard.
Ah, I missed that part of the feat. Haven't used it enough. If splatbooks were allowed, there is a feat that lets you Coup De Grace as a standard action tho. Death Blow, Complete Adventurer, pg 106.
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...You have it backwards. One round casting time spells come into effect at the beginning of the next round, everything else comes in immediately. I guess they just assumed their players weren't so stupid as to interpret thingsThe rules are an abstraction. You have obviously never played Warhammer 40k where melee is assumed to be fluid and constantly in motion even if the models are not.
I never suggested that you could move away from a fighter in the middle of iterative attacks to avoid them. In fact, I specifically said that because of the way that the...
The rules are an abstraction of real life, simplified as to promote ease of play. I understand this. However the rules are clear in this regard and your interpretation is not backed up by any Rules As Written nor is it held by many people in this thread.
You have suggested that a Full Round action is like a 1 Round casting time spell in that it continues to happen and is interrupted until one round later, and since the CDG rules don't exist in a vaccuum and the same rules apply to both CDG and Full Attack the same rules would govern both.
If you want to houserule otherwise be my guest, but as a discussion of the rules you are incorrect.
Not really. Spells are important, because they require concentration and thus concentration checks. A 1 round spell takes a full round of concentration. A 1 minute spells takes 10 rounds of concentration. Any damage during that time forces a concentrations check.
There is a special exemption for metamagiced spontaneous spells where it specifically states that it does not require a full round of concentration, and the effect comes into play on your turn. Other than where it states that 1 round spells come into play right before the players next turn, it doesn't say when the effects of full round actions comes into play in the SRD. I am hoping the actually PF rulebook has more details that the SRD.
Hey Char, I'm not attacking you but look on this chart of Combat actions under Full Round Actions.
A coup de grace is the same as a full attack, a charge, escaping from a net, etc.I don't know if it changed from 3.5 to PRPG or not but that is how we always played it.
To answer the OP, hopefully you are in a position to get off an AoO when he tries to attempt the CDG and can either kill the dude or grapple, trip, disarm him.
For the record, most full round actions should land on the players turn, but Coup De Grace and 1 round spells should be exceptions to that rule.
Except with that ruling, you can do a coup de grace, take a five foot step away from the victim and have it resolve the next round when you're not in melee range. 1 round spells are an explicitly stated exception too, so I'm not seeing why a coup de grace "should" be an exception when it's closer to a full attack in function.