Parties with multiple spellcasters can be quite deadly in many situations, particularly if they use spells inventively, as it appears Novalord's did. However, they have lots of problems if they are ever surprised, or lose initiative, or start a battle in tight quarters with no room to get spells off without hitting friends or provoking attacks of opportunity. That's what all those lumbering, high AC, high HP meat shields are absolutely necessary for - keeping the big beasties off of the spellchuckers long enough for them to do that voodoo they do so well. The druid's bear is a decent enough tank in some respects, but its low AC is going to make it just a speed bump for the typical troll. If Novalord's party is cruising so easily through the AP, they must 1) never get surprised, 2) always win initiative, and 3) never have any encounters start up close and personal. Since laws of probability indicate that is an improbable string of exceptional dicerolling, I might suggest he could maybe be a wee bit tougher on them.
Parties with multiple spellcasters can be quite deadly in many situations, particularly if they use spells inventively, as it appears Novalord's did. However, they have lots of problems if they are ever surprised, or lose initiative, or start a battle in tight quarters with no room to get spells off without hitting friends or provoking attacks of opportunity. That's what all those lumbering, high AC, high HP meat shields are absolutely necessary for - keeping the big beasties off of the spellchuckers long enough for them to do that voodoo they do so well. The druid's bear is a decent enough tank in some respects, but its low AC is going to make it just a speed bump for the typical troll. If Novalord's party is cruising so easily through the AP, they must 1) never get surprised, 2) always win initiative, and 3) never have any encounters start up close and personal. Since laws of probability indicate that is an improbable string of exceptional dicerolling, I might suggest he could maybe be a wee bit tougher on them.
well im not gonna cheat a dice roll to get the jump on them
tuskgutter did get the jump on them as they rolled atrocious all around to spot him, as he got in a good hitsurprise isnt easy, i think the half elf druid started with like 11 or more perception
a troll outdoors isnt gonna surprise anyone anyway!
they have oodles of bluff, diplomacey etc as well so have made lots allies throughout the land. (boggards, mites, kobolds....no so much the fey so far)
they are perfectly set up for exploring wilderness, chatting to the inhabitants, and neutralising threats. As they should be. before given charter each character was interviewed, mostly to ensure no chaos went forth in Brevoys name.
They are well co-ordinated team of mostly LN and LE. reading around I am amazed at the number of chaotic parties given charter...im sure it will be there undoing!!!!
Im sure my time will come.
We are all enjoying the AP immensely, which is the main thing.
Mind if I ask what the exact party make up is and what encounters you think they'll be running into next? Might be a fun exercise to see how other DM's have handled those encounters or would handle your party.
I'm pretty sure it's 100xp for the whole party. That's what I've been handing out. I seem to remember James confirming it, but must have been in a different thread.
Mind if I ask what the exact party make up is and what encounters you think they'll be running into next? Might be a fun exercise to see how other DM's have handled those encounters or would handle your party.
hmm ok. But not looking for 'this is what you need to slaughter your party' . Too many GMs have wiped out first level parties with a d4 troll encounter, and this, TBH , is plain daft.
7 pcs so i up the encounter as per the documentation someone kindly posted elsewhere
as there has been no dungeons thus far, apart from abit in the kobold lair where they fought the main BBEG and some of his loyal minions
1. cleric/ranger, archer.....but not overly keen on his character so is gonna change it ( to fighter/rogue, would-be-royal assassin)
2. celestial sorceror, with high AC, and in your face touch spells and short range
3. infernal sorceror, summoner
4. infernal sorceror/ anti-fey ranger
5. bard, archer/buffer
6. melee-ish druid and bear
7. melee-ish rogue/inquisitor
next tuesday they begin the kingdom building bit
they are all just 4th, and have 2 or 3 permenant magic items each.
players range from 24-50 years, with most above 40...so many of us have played for 30 years.
Parties with multiple spellcasters can be quite deadly in many situations, particularly if they use spells inventively, as it appears Novalord's did. However, they have lots of problems if they are ever surprised, or lose initiative, or start a battle in tight quarters with no room to get spells off without hitting friends or provoking attacks of opportunity. That's what all those lumbering, high AC, high HP meat shields are absolutely necessary for - keeping the big beasties off of the spellchuckers long enough for them to do that voodoo they do so well. The druid's bear is a decent enough tank in some respects, but its low AC is going to make it just a speed bump for the typical troll. If Novalord's party is cruising so easily through the AP, they must 1) never get surprised, 2) always win initiative, and 3) never have any encounters start up close and personal. Since laws of probability indicate that is an improbable string of exceptional dicerolling, I might suggest he could maybe be a wee bit tougher on them.well im not gonna cheat a dice roll to get the jump on them
tuskgutter did get the jump on them as they rolled atrocious all around to spot him, as he got in a good hitsurprise isnt easy, i think the half elf druid started with like 11 or more perception
a troll outdoors isnt gonna surprise anyone anyway!
they have oodles of bluff, diplomacey etc as well so have made lots allies throughout the land. (boggards, mites, kobolds....no so much the fey so far)
they are perfectly set up for exploring wilderness, chatting to the inhabitants, and neutralising threats. As they should be. before given charter each character was interviewed, mostly to ensure no chaos went forth in Brevoys name.
They are well co-ordinated team of mostly LN and LE. reading around I am amazed at the number of chaotic parties given charter...im sure it will be there undoing!!!!
Im sure my time will come.
We are all enjoying the AP immensely, which is the main thing.
Sorry, hit the wrong button and submitted too soon. You're right. If your party is enjoying the AP, go with it. My group, similarly experienced, likes to be challenged, and expects that every now and then a PC will die when they do something stupid or the dice just roll wrong (even with great skills and abilities a 1 is still a 1). Keeps the juices flowing. I constantly adjust encounters in the AP to make sure they are getting the right level of challenge, making some easier if they are struggling and some tougher if they are breezing, with the understanding that not every encounter should be difficult.
I also wouldn't say a troll would "never" surprise someone outdoors, particularly in rough terrain where lines of sight are limited. They do have some limited intelligence, enough to set up rudimentary ambushes. If the encounter takes place in thick woods/brush where visibility is limited to 10-20 yards or so, and you throw in a heavy rainstorm to deaden sound and surprise becomes not only possible, but likely. And that's not even mentioning the possibility of a night assault on their campsight, as presumably the half-elf with the ungodly perception can't be on watch all the time.
Just thoughts if you think they would enjoy a challenge. If they are having fun the way its going, keep on going that way.
I also wouldn't say a troll would "never" surprise someone outdoors, particularly in rough terrain where lines of sight are limited. They do have some limited intelligence, enough to set up rudimentary ambushes. If the encounter takes place in thick woods/brush where visibility is limited to 10-20 yards or so, and you throw in a heavy rainstorm to deaden sound and surprise becomes not only possible, but likely. And that's not even mentioning the possibility of a night assault on their campsight, as presumably the half-elf with the ungodly perception can't be on watch all the time.Just thoughts if you think they would enjoy a challenge. If they are having fun the way its going, keep on going that way.
i do have a set of random weather cards based on a website someone pointed out. as luck would have it they havent yet had an encounter in detrimental weather
i think a death is all a matter of time. for every group thats been TPKed in its 2nd encounter, there will be groups like mine, who have been very lucky.
the night time watch thing you mentioned is actually a funny point. he is on 3rd watch, i have a d3 i roll to see if an encounter happens at night....it rolls some many 3's
but again there luck must run out.
my dice havent been terrible. i posted elsehwere i rolled 5 20's in a row, but unfortunately they where all for non-deadly things, i think it was intitiative (which i didnt win!!), save, a hit n a confirm for a weak monster, and another save!!
my only worry is that when there luck does turn, these characters who they are now attached too, may crash n burn badly....
im pretty sure ive also made this thread go slightly OT!!
they start rivers run red next week, so i can start posting on that one instead!!
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Had a look through the stat blocks in this adventure, posting up the very few mistakes I found.
p20, Davik Nettles: Fear Gaze doesn't include the bonus from his Ability Focus feat. Should be DC 18.
p35, Giant Whiptail Centipede: CMD should be 18 due to -4 from squeezing.
p50, Akiros Ismort: CMD should be 17 due to -2 from rage.
they are perfectly set up for exploring wilderness, chatting to the inhabitants, and neutralising threats. As they should be. before given charter each character was interviewed, mostly to ensure no chaos went forth in Brevoys name.
They are well co-ordinated team of mostly LN and LE. reading around I am amazed at the number of chaotic parties given charter...im sure it will be there undoing!!!!
Favoring order over chaos? Did you even read up on brevoy and the river kingdoms? Brevoy: CN, River Kingdoms: CN. Kesten Garess, the reinforcement sent by Brevoy; CN.
My assumption is rather diametrically opposed to your assumption: I think Brevoy would avoid sending someone that the headstrong, government-hating and freedom-loving riverfolk might lynch in the streets.
When the ruler in my campain issued a bunch of strict laws, I forced him to make a loyalty check as to not immediately gain unrest, and it carried a lot of protest from the native council members (especially Oleg, Corax, and Akiros, who all are chaotic and know what their fellow riverfolk want)
p35, Giant Whiptail Centipede: CMD should be 18 due to -4 from squeezing.
p50, Akiros Ismort: CMD should be 17 due to -2 from rage.
No those are actually right.
Squeezing only reduces your attack rolls and AC.
Raging doesn't reduce your CMD, only AC.
19 = 10 base + 4 Str + 1 Dex + 4 BAB
Favoring order over chaos? Did you even read up on brevoy and the river kingdoms? Brevoy: CN, River Kingdoms: CN. Kesten Garess, the reinforcement sent by Brevoy; CN.My assumption is rather diametrically opposed to your assumption: I think Brevoy would avoid sending someone that the headstrong, government-hating and freedom-loving riverfolk might lynch in the streets.
When the ruler in my campain issued a bunch of strict laws, I forced him to make a loyalty check as to not immediately gain unrest, and it carried a lot of protest from the native council members (especially Oleg, Corax, and Akiros, who all are chaotic and know what their fellow riverfolk want)
Yep. Im not saying most of The Brevoy stuff makes no sense alignment wise, for example sending forth a party to do a complex and orderly thing, while they themselves are oppossed to such things.
BUT
Surtova two rulers, and the main pretender Orlosky...both suit the L/N/E triangle well
AND
for the most part the Brevoy stuff is fluff and not 'overly' important according to the paizo posters here....
I think you're party is going to have a lot of fun with the mud pit fight. Nothing to entangle with their and plants have an excellent amount of immunities.
I do wonder if you can blind them though...
I think you're party is going to have a lot of fun with the mud pit fight. Nothing to entangle with their and plants have an excellent amount of immunities.
I do wonder if you can blind them though...
yeah, nauseated is horrendous, esp for that duration....surely the CR should be upped because of that?
as its a differnet mod to this thread, perhaps discuss there
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p35, Giant Whiptail Centipede: CMD should be 18 due to -4 from squeezing.
p50, Akiros Ismort: CMD should be 17 due to -2 from rage.
No those are actually right.
Squeezing only reduces your attack rolls and AC.
Raging doesn't reduce your CMD, only AC.
Can't give you page reference in the main rules since I don't have my book at work, but it's in the PRD under Combat Maneuver Defense:
'Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD.'
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First session
14 months pass
kingdom up to size 11
survived flood, plague and finished with assaasination attempt for next time
horrible takeover of 'Olegton'
Kingdom rules all worked really well.
Printed all the buildings onto stickers so they could just be stuck in place
Hartlake, is the capital city and boasts a fine brothels, shrine, various trade areas and a dump
bravo to Paizo
doh, wrong thread
I recently got the Stolen Lands paper minis. Aside from mites, kobilds, bandits and zombies there are four minis that are puzzleing me.
A small character (gnome/halfling), a young dark haired woman in a gown with a yellow apron, a muscular bald man with a bandana, and an androgenous cloaked figure.
Does any one know who these minis represent?
I imagine the gnome and woman might be characters from Rivers Run Red, but I don't know for sure.
Those are the hirelings Crystal made.
Hirelings: Into the Wild
Those are the hirelings Crystal made.
Hirelings: Into the Wild
Thanks!
Really depends on how you want to run it and what you think would be fun for your players. Those are all valid options. Kingmaker is crazy like that. If your party is having some trouble with bandits perhaps a little extra experience fighting off a large group with the help of Keston is just what they need.
Maybe as they are returning have them come across a group of bandits heading to Oleg's to "answer the call of the Stag Lord to battle." Then they reach the fort while it's under siege. With Keston on the inside and the party on the outside they can crush the bandits against the walls. Maybe have the baddies being led by Akiros who surrenders as soon as enough men fall and provides some insider info on the Stag Lord.
As a GM, you need the outpost. Don't burn it!
It is a focal point for many quests and is important for establishing the PCs' relation to the area and its people.
Also it is evident that your party is in need for a confidence boost. Let the bandits attack the outpost while the PCs are there. Have a trapper arive two days in advance of the attack with news of a bandit force making its way. The players should be allowed some preparation, but most important should be allowed a decisive victory that boosts their confidence once more. The battle needs not be an easy one, but I suggest you let all players survive and make sure they each have a moment in the spotligt, where each of them strike decisive blows against Kressle and her gang.
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.... Maybe have the baddies being led by Akiros who surrenders as soon as enough men fall and provides some insider info on the Stag Lord.
If you go by this suggestion I think it will work out better if Akiros turns on the bandits early in the fight and makes an obvious move to ally with the PCs.
I've run this exploration system several times before, giving out XP for each hex the PCs explore and simply drawing in the details of the hexes they explore on a big hex battlemat.
By the way, I suppose that any one PC will get those 100 XP, right? Or is it a group reward? And the listed XP reward for quests, are they for the entire group or for each PC?
I've run this exploration system several times before, giving out XP for each hex the PCs explore and simply drawing in the details of the hexes they explore on a big hex battlemat.By the way, I suppose that any one PC will get those 100 XP, right? Or is it a group reward? And the listed XP reward for quests, are they for the entire group or for each PC?
As far as I know, there are no xp rewards given to each PC in Kingmaker, so you'll have to split it all. There are quite a few hexes to explore though.
The same with quests, but most of them give out a fair amount of xp and treasure in addition to the quest rewards.edit: You might want to increase it proportionally if you have more than 4 players though.
Creative Director
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I've run this exploration system several times before, giving out XP for each hex the PCs explore and simply drawing in the details of the hexes they explore on a big hex battlemat.By the way, I suppose that any one PC will get those 100 XP, right? Or is it a group reward? And the listed XP reward for quests, are they for the entire group or for each PC?
All XP awards in Pathfinder products are group awards. We generally don't go in for the "single player XP award" scene.
I'm a little confused with the centipede on page 35.
I understand it was made CR 3 as a sort of correction from the bestiary, but why is it's poison DC so low? Is this a misprint or an effort to scale the beastie down for a low level party?
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I'm a little confused with the centipede on page 35.
I understand it was made CR 3 as a sort of correction from the bestiary, but why is it's poison DC so low? Is this a misprint or an effort to scale the beastie down for a low level party?
Misprint. See earlier in the thread. I believe I saw a correction posted there. Alternately, the excellent thread on running Chapter 1 for 6 players has a mention of the correct poison DC at the very beginning of the thread.
Misprint. See earlier in the thread. I believe I saw a correction posted there. Alternately, the excellent thread on running Chapter 1 for 6 players has a mention of the correct poison DC at the very beginning of the thread.
DC 17 Fort. Thanks. I missed that.
In area T is written:
...the creature’s eyes are milky and sightless, indicating the creature was blind at the time of its death.
...but a Nymph's Blinding Beauty affects only humanoids?
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Creative Director
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In area T is written:
...the creature’s eyes are milky and sightless, indicating the creature was blind at the time of its death....but a Nymph's Blinding Beauty affects only humanoids?
Good point, but said nymph can also cause folks to go blind with any number of spells as well.
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Ok few statements and questions.
Party found Tuskguters lair..he wasn't home..Rouge and Druid set bear trap from trap glade in lair and they caught him!!!..lol
Also The Mine in area L. says it can be developed into healthy mine and details are in #32..Can't seem to find them??
The Druid "The Holly King" is developing well. He has managed to secure the Sootscales to mine the gold vein for the party.
Druids animal campanion died in first episode and he has since befriended a wild brush thacalyine and trained it and called a regular one as a companion. Flavor is really developing nicely.
kudos to Paizo for this Adventure path. Great to run!!
Happs is kind of the looser in the bunch, since he's the first named bandit the PCs beat up after all. If you want the PCs to learn about the Stag Lord from Happs, though, that's fine.
Funny, I just noticed that Happs wears a silver Stag Lord amulet, signifying him as an officer of the Stag Lord. Yet, Kressle does not own one. This is strange both because Kressle is a higher 'rank' and because she has actually met the Stag Lord. Any thoughts why this is?
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Happs is kind of the looser in the bunch, since he's the first named bandit the PCs beat up after all. If you want the PCs to learn about the Stag Lord from Happs, though, that's fine.Funny, I just noticed that Happs wears a silver Stag Lord amulet, signifying him as an officer of the Stag Lord. Yet, Kressle does not own one. This is strange both because Kressle is a higher 'rank' and because she has actually met the Stag Lord. Any thoughts why this is?
I've been giving the pendants to all but random bandits as an additional treasure and to aid the group's disguises if they opt to impersonate bandits(since it's not very clear why a bandit would look different than a typical warrior, gear aside).
The problem I'm having with the exploration of the Stolen Lands is that I don't have a pdf to extract the map from. It seems like that would be the simplest method of providing them with travel information, but there's no way I could accomplish it with just the copy I bought from my FLGS.
I think I'll have to rely on a digital camera to get a photo of the map, pull it into Photoshop and mess with it, and then print that out. Or just draw it on the hex map, I suppose, but that's not nearly as handy in some ways...
The problem I'm having with the exploration of the Stolen Lands is that I don't have a pdf to extract the map from. It seems like that would be the simplest method of providing them with travel information, but there's no way I could accomplish it with just the copy I bought from my FLGS.
I think I'll have to rely on a digital camera to get a photo of the map, pull it into Photoshop and mess with it, and then print that out. Or just draw it on the hex map, I suppose, but that's not nearly as handy in some ways...
i just made a simple hex map, printed onto card, and the party colour it in as they go along
Try to get a scan from your book? Not sure what the drop of quality would be between that and using a camera.
I wouldn't let the colouring of the map in my player's hand personnally! The result would be just sad.
Try to get a scan from your book? Not sure what the drop of quality would be between that and using a camera.
I wouldn't let the colouring of the map in my player's hand personnally! The result would be just sad.
they love it. on a seperate map one of them colours in hexes they have claimed for the kingdom, roads, farms etc
they love it. on a seperate map one of them colours in hexes they have claimed for the kingdom, roads, farms etcTry to get a scan from your book? Not sure what the drop of quality would be between that and using a camera.
I wouldn't let the colouring of the map in my player's hand personnally! The result would be just sad.
This is a great idea once the kingdom building starts, but not so much for the exploration part imo. See this thread for an awesome exploration map idea:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePa th/kingmaker/myThanksToEveryone
I've run this exploration system several times before, giving out XP for each hex the PCs explore and simply drawing in the details of the hexes they explore on a big hex battlemat. It worked out VERY well, and the satisfaction of seeing your map slowly fill in not only gives the players constant physical proof that they're actually exploring and expanding and doing stuff, but also makes it blatantly obvious where the PCs have and haven't gone yet. It's really fun.
I think laying the entire map out for the PCs to see at once, while it looks prettier, is not nearly as fun or rewarding from a discovery and exploration viewpoint, but your tastes may differ.
I photoshopped the hex handout from the Player's Guide (to remove the "explored" checkboxes) and then blew it up and printed it out over 12 pages so it's roughly 3' x 3'.
Our first real mapping session was the last one and both myself and the players were amazed at how much fun we had drawing out and revealing the map as we went along. One player didn't want to look at the map the whole game so he could have a big reveal at the end of the session! :) Pencil crayons (woot elementary school flashbacks!) allow colourful sections of plains, hills, forest, and artistic representations of significant encounters - including one big sycamore.
It will get quite insane as additional map areas (Nomen Heights, the slough, etc.) get tacked on but by the end of it we should have a pretty amazing hand-drawn map that the players can keep as a proud souvenir. They will also need it to plan city-building.
Is Fort Serenko still occupied at the beginning of the AP?
Implicitly, yes.
FWIW - I had my party spend an overnight there in the trip out from Restov. (our game started a bit before the AP's beginning)
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I would say yes. Pg. 11 of #33 says specifically that the soldiers stationed there were recalled to Rostland because of the increasing tensions between Rostland and Issia. These tensions, I believe, started after the campaign when Issia began to see Rostland's sponsored settling of the Stolen Land as a grab for power.
Shane
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Creative Director
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I would say yes. Pg. 11 of #33 says specifically that the soldiers stationed there were recalled to Rostland because of the increasing tensions between Rostland and Issia. These tensions, I believe, started after the campaign when Issia began to see Rostland's sponsored settling of the Stolen Land as a grab for power.
Shane
Yup; Rostland pulls her forces out of the fort, I suspect, at some point late during "Rivers Run Red." The EXACT time this event occurs is left to the GM to decide, as best fits the specifics of his or her Kingmaker campaign.