A Tiny dog, sure. Maybe a little terrier. Yap yap!
Use a weasel or rat's basic numbers, tweak a bit to be more canine.
Survival sounds right.
Edit:
Use weasel, but Speed 30, feats/skills/racial skill modifiers of a dog.
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Aye, the wizard Haris Pilton carries a chihuahua-doodle in her knapsack. Gives a +3 to moronic image and incites elves (who believe poodles should run free in the forest) to a +1 attack.
That aside, the dog as written would be too big to "share" your space, I'd think, and it might impair ability to share spells per the familiar ability. Still, I'd allow it though as William describes. I think the player who gets this will be more interested in their familiar and character.
The Book of Arcane Magic includes a Badgerhound Dog as a familiar which is basically a Dachshund. I want my next familiar to be a weiner dog!
But, back to the question..., using the DOG from the Pathfinder Bestiary I and granting a +3 Survival bonus, if using it as a familiar is, in my opinion, a solid bit of GM-fu.
If a player wanted to do that, I'd have no problems at all with allowing it. Yeah, technically familiars are all supposed to be Tiny instead of Small, but a dog is in no way going to break the game.
If a player wanted to do that, I'd have no problems at all with allowing it. Yeah, technically familiars are all supposed to be Tiny instead of Small, but a dog is in no way going to break the game.
What about a hygenically challenged monk?
A boggle (MMII) will require the Improved Familiar feat.
Depends entirely on the GM I suppose, it is somewhat inbetween a normal familiar and an improved familiar.
Personally I would not have a problem bending rules a bit that puts some effort in creating a memorable character, if it is just about an extra bonus I'd not allow it.
Well, the thing is that a Small dog is actually useful. It has +4 Stealth, a decent bite attack, can carry small amounts of gear, and so on.
If you 'just' want flavor, what's wrong with a Tiny dog?
I don't think it's unreasonable to require Improved Familiar; after all, the dog wouldn't have a level modifier like most improved familiars, so that's already a good 'in-between.'
The problem with 'intent' is that it invites arguments about what actions are and are not reasonable.
The Dog has the same CR (CR 1/3) as the Hawk & the Owl and a lower one than the Viper & the Weasel (CR 1/2.) If familiars are based solely on them being normal animals & what their CR is I'd allow the Eagle, too.
Not anything that could be counted as a PC's mount though. Using your familiar as your mount is just too much, in my opinion. Well, at 1st level anyway.
The Weasel is frankly not a CR 1/2 creature (it's got great skills for stealthing but that's about it) and the viper is CR 1/2 largely because of it's poison.
In contrast a dog has a pretty decent AC, better HP, decent speed, a decent attack (d4+1), a high perception score, and scent.
Yeah a dog is arguably too powerful for a familiar. It's pretty much a wash at mid to high level but it's a not inconsiderable boost at low level. However it's certainly not game-breaking by any means.
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Well, the thing is that a Small dog is actually useful. It has +4 Stealth, a decent bite attack, can carry small amounts of gear, and so on.
If you 'just' want flavor, what's wrong with a Tiny dog?
I don't think it's unreasonable to require Improved Familiar; after all, the dog wouldn't have a level modifier like most improved familiars, so that's already a good 'in-between.'
The problem with 'intent' is that it invites arguments about what actions are and are not reasonable.
This is kinda why I asked.
So lets peg it at first level.
I'm talking about the "dog" entry from the bestiary, as opposed to a modified weasel. I do not want a tiny pink chihuahua poking its head out of my mage satchel.
And yes, this would be more useful to a first level character than most familiar options, which is why I'm asking.
Okay, the hawk or owl can scout, and the weasel and monkey can maybe russel up some snacks.
But the dog has scent and can track and function as a 'free' guard dog, and is actually capable of defending itself (though if you send it into a fight you deserve to have it die).
The counter to this is it can't hide in your robes. You still get the alertness bonus as long as its next to you, but it has to follow you around, like a pack animal or animal companion.
So I don't know. I'm not sure. It'd certainly be balanced if there was some kind of negative feedback when the familiar died, like damage. Maybe forcing the wizard to pay for a guard dog would be enough to balance things. Giving up the +3 survival seems like a bad trade at higher levels.
If a player wanted to do that, I'd have no problems at all with allowing it. Yeah, technically familiars are all supposed to be Tiny instead of Small, but a dog is in no way going to break the game.
You can set up a flank with a small creature, not so with a tiny one: huge difference if you ask me. Take that level of rogue and enjoy sneak attack with a free flanker you will later be able to boost and protect with stoneskin. A huge advantage if you are going for Arcane Trickster.
Also, I think (but I'm not sure) a small creature gains AoO as it have a zone of control, where tiny ones don't... Makes it a lot easier for you to use your dog as a "shield" to keep that nasty fighter out of your face for another round at low levels.
Going from tiny to small is a big difference in term of battlefield control.
If you make the penalties too steep a player could just BUY a "medium" sized dog pre-trained and be done with it. Wizards typically get a bunch of skill points, it would be nothing to drop one in Handle Animal every level.
Seriously, a "small" dog isn't scary at all. Most of the gamer nerds I know (including myself) could kill a small dog with one swift kick, now throw it in front of something that's trained to use weapons... right.
Oh a flanker pooch and a level of rogue... oh noes, please don't attack me guy who has a total BaB of +2 and is maybe +6 to hit after flank with a dagger. Are you really gonna spec your Wizad for STR or Weapon Finesse based on a 1/2 HD dog? *laughs shaking head* I think I'd be a bit more concerned about the armored guy swinging at +15 (to hit) with a greatsword, no flank required.
As a trade off for having a SLIGHTLY more durable familiar I would just NOT give the Wizard(owner) a skill bonus from the familiar at all. Or as others have suggested make it "tiny", which is probably the better solution if you're dealing with a player trying to work the combat rules/system. (Honestly, if the player really wanted a "combat buddy", Druid, Ranger or Summoner is just a much better route.)
You can set up a flank with a small creature, not so with a tiny one: huge difference if you ask me... Going from tiny to small is a big difference in term of battlefield control.
That's what your 750 gp wand of summon monster I is for... it's a 1st level spell. If you use your familiar to set up flanks, it'll get killed. It's up to the GM to apply the penalties for lost familiars (200 gp/level), in that case. The wand is cheaper than the familiar starting at 4th level, and the difference increases rapidly from there.
And what kind of an idiot wizard intentionally gets into melee anyway, unless he's an Eldritch Knight (in which case your dread of sneak attack is misplaced)?
Seriously, a "small" dog isn't scary at all. Most of the gamer nerds I know (including myself) could kill a small dog with one swift kick, now throw it in front of something that's trained to use weapons... right.Oh a flanker pooch and a level of rogue... oh noes, please don't attack me guy who has a total BaB of +2 and is maybe +6 to hit after flank with a dagger. Are you really gonna spec your Wizad for STR or Weapon Finesse based on a 1/2 HD dog? *laughs shaking head* I think I'd be a bit more concerned about the armored guy swinging at +15 (to hit) with a greatsword, no flank required.
From the SRD : Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.
The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.
Yes, it's not the best pet class you can have, still, a rogue/wizard who can cast mirror image on the dog (using share spell), use true strike, and get in an easy flanking position seems a viable build to me. Make him a diviner for the initiative boost and sure, spend a rogue talent on weapon finesse. Go into arcane trickster as soon as possible. For that build, the difference between a tiny and a small familiar is something to consider.
I don't mean you will be able to take on that greatsword swinging barbarian alone, but you got spells, lots of skills, and you can take care of yourself in combat against mooks - a good addition to any party if you ask me.
Sure, if all you care about is DPR don't play this...
That's what your 750 gp wand of summon monster I is for... it's a 1st level spell. If you use your familiar to set up flanks, it'll get killed. It's up to the GM to apply the penalties for lost familiars (200 gp/level), in that case. The wand is cheaper than the familiar starting at 4th level, and the difference increases rapidly from there.
Sure. Get attacked by assassins in the middle of the nigh without SM memorised and without your wand (you know, you don't have the time to search it in the dark) and that dog will be really handy.
I don't mean it's a huge boost, just enough of an edge to consider asking spending a feat on or give something in exchange (one less memorised cantrip/day, maybe)
Feat : your familiar is small, not tiny and have a Zone of control, it can flank ennemies and can use AoO. Special : if you gain improved familia later on, you can retrain this feat for free.
If you have issues make it a feat.
Dog Familiar
+ Handle Animal becomes a class skill
Dogs give their masters +2 survival bonus and no hps. If you have a dog familiar through this feat it dies, you may summon another dog without taking this feat again.
Seriously, a "small" dog isn't scary at all. Most of the gamer nerds I know (including myself) could kill a small dog with one swift kick, now throw it in front of something that's trained to use weapons... right.
I hate to toss in the 'nerd posturing' card at this point, but most pit bulls and many working dogs are Small.
A Small dog of the right breed can seriously mess your stuff up.
Seriously, a "small" dog isn't scary at all. Most of the gamer nerds I know (including myself) could kill a small dog with one swift kick, now throw it in front of something that's trained to use weapons... right.I hate to toss in the 'nerd posturing' card at this point, but most pit bulls and many working dogs are Small.
A Small dog of the right breed can seriously mess your stuff up.
lol, D&D really doesn't take breed into account, it's small or medium. The comment was considering that the "ankle biter" that would be the only one that qualifies as a familiar. The other major difference is that Guard Dogs (aka medium) come trained for combat/tripping or riding depending on the character I suppose.
I don't mean you will be able to take on that greatsword swinging barbarian alone, but you got spells, lots of skills, and you can take care of yourself in combat against mooks - a good addition to any party if you ask me.
Sure, if all you care about is DPR don't play this...
I never said it wasn't possible to play, or that it didn't sound like potentially fun RP. However functionality suffers a little IMO. I don't particularly care about DPR, but I do care whether or not I'm carrying my weight in a party of 4-5 characters. The other pet classes could be just as cool concept-wise and still carry their own weight.
EDIT: Heh, Wizard/Familiar Flanker makes me think of that Gnome in the 4E videos with his minion badger. "I'm a monster! Rawr!" Video1 Video2
I never said it wasn't possible to play, or that it didn't sound like potentially fun RP. However functionality suffers a little IMO. I don't particularly care about DPR, but I do care whether or not I'm carrying my weight in a party of 4-5 characters. The other pet classes could be just as cool concept-wise and still carry their own weight.EDIT: Heh, Wizard/Familiar Flanker makes me think of that Gnome in the 4E videos with his minion badger. "I'm a monster! Rawr!" Video1 Video2
Hilarious! Thanks, I didn't know about those.
Yes, I understand your point about carrying your weight - but I still think that, if I was to play a rogue/wizard, an option to have a permanent flanker, not depending on a spell or a wand, and that you can boost with target:personnal spells and that can deliver touch spells is not bad an option.
Cast true strike and mage armor on the small bastard (you can do that in the morning...) then chill touch first round - set up a flank, etc...
And taking thoughness as a feat is good for you and your familiar - you get 1/2 more hp between you and your familiar from the same one feat...
I did not do the math, but I guess it could be, if not a powerfull build, at least a viable one that could carry his weight around.
All that speculation is very dependent on the game you are going to play anyway - for a city-based, political/intrigue game, it would be awesome, but for classic dungeon crawls not that much. Would also shine in a game where magic items are not that easy to get.
I really hope this doesn't get me in any trouble for mentioning other properties I'm new to the boards.
After playing way too much Dragon Age I'd really like a larger canine like the Mabari war hound they have. I agree that ankle biters don't really seem like they'd scare anyone. The Shadow Mastiff looks about the appropriate size for what I want. I really like the Bay special ability that the shadow mastiff has and think this version of a larger animal companion war dog should keep that ability.
I'd like to make it unique without copying the Shadow Mastiff's every stat.
Does anyone have any idea how to pull off something like this?
I'm pretty new to the system.
you can take improved familiar to be able to summon a more powerful familiar, something with the stats of a hellhound is very much possible at relatively low level.
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Okay, when were we ever talking about a Riding Dog as a familiar?
The medium size option is very clearly OP as a normal familiar, and a perfectly viable choice for the Improved Familiar feat (go halfling, have mount, enjoy).
Correct me if I'd wrong, but the "Guard Dog" option listed in the "goods and Services" section refers to the "small dog" from the bestiary, with the "guard" package of tricks. There's no way it's talking about the Riding Dog, which only costs 150g. There's no way a "Guard Dog" is nothing more than a "Riding Dog" without training to carry a rider (but all the other combat training). That makes no sense to me. It's got to be referring to the "Small Dog".
So the small dog. Okay, it can flank. So can a Guard Dog, which costs 25g. Neither is a viable combat option at higher levels, and at lower levels it's still a rather significant risk. It can put itself bodily between you and your opponent, who will simply go diagonal around you, with its 3 hp (1/2 yours) being a big threat, and being able to make an attack of opportunity bite attack of +1 that does 1d4+1 damage.
It is, technically, more useful in combat than any of the other familiars. And it does allow for an interesting build focused on the familiar. But I don't see how it's overpowered, given the additional vulnerability compared to other familiars.
Transformation would make the dog fairly scary, particularly combined with, oh, stoneskin or something.
Okay, when were we ever talking about a Riding Dog as a familiar?
Sorry, that was my fault. I mentioned basing familiars solely on their CR. I added not allowing anything that could be used as a mount. I said it because the Dolphin, Riding Dog, and the Pony all have CR 1/2, the same CR as a viper or weasel familiar. If things were based solely on CR these would also be possible choices at 1st level.
Witch gets a goat familiar, also a small creature I think, but there are no stats for it that I can find. You wont be able to cary that in your robes either though. It grants +3 survival. I don't see a problem with granting a wizard a small dog familiar.
Guard Dog is a small trained dog (probably 50-60 pounds max), a wolfhound/mastiff is more in the riding dog territory.
Weirdly enough a Dog would generally take a substantial HP hit becoming a Wizard Familiar ;) I'd be tempted to say that HP is 1/2 the Wizard's HP or the animal's base HP (whatever is higher).
A small dog as combatant is pretty much a level 1 trick at best but for that level that loyal dog between you and the goblin's spear is not an inconsiderable meat shield.
Further goblins are afraid of dogs and would probably be assessed a morale penalty for opposing a dog :D
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So you could take a feat to have a construct as a familiar...
In the old days, I ran a higher level adventure where the player wizard convinced an archmage to build him a construct in return for retrieving some ancient lore, and then he played upon the archmage's propensity for research to collaborate to imbue the construct with a familiar spirit. It's no Feat, and in the beginning I had no clue the adventure would proceed this way, but with all the party went through, I figured it made a great reward. (coincidentally enough to this thread, the construct was a steel dog).
Just a thought if you're not inclined to have a rule for everything!
So you could take a feat to have a construct as a familiar...In the old days, I ran a higher level adventure where the player wizard convinced an archmage to build him a construct in return for retrieving some ancient lore, and then he played upon the archmage's propensity for research to collaborate to imbue the construct with a familiar spirit. It's no Feat, and in the beginning I had no clue the adventure would proceed this way, but with all the party went through, I figured it made a great reward. (coincidentally enough to this thread, the construct was a steel dog).
Just a thought if you're not inclined to have a rule for everything!
Golem as Cohort/Familiar reminds me of Fantasia Faust in Bill Willingham's Elementals/Ironwood series. Human Sized intelligent Iron Golem made with illusion spells so she looks like a human female.
So you could take a feat to have a construct as a familiar...Golem as Cohort/Familiar reminds me of Fantasia Faust in Bill Willingham's Elementals/Ironwood series. Human Sized intelligent Iron Golem made with illusion spells so she looks like a human female.
I've always wanted an 'animated object' as a familiar, but it's usually a matter of price(permanency) that keeps it out of reach until it's just about useless/pointless. As a Cohort, it's just a ton easier to take a humanoid with class levels.
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I've always wanted an 'animated object' as a familiar, but it's usually a matter of price(permanency) that keeps it out of reach until it's just about useless/pointless. As a Cohort, it's just a ton easier to take a humanoid with class levels.So you could take a feat to have a construct as a familiar...Golem as Cohort/Familiar reminds me of Fantasia Faust in Bill Willingham's Elementals/Ironwood series. Human Sized intelligent Iron Golem made with illusion spells so she looks like a human female.
Per Rock for the win.
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Recently, one of my players, a hilariously self-serving CN rogue, asked me if he could get a tiny crab as a familiar when he multiclassed into wizard. I hesitated, what with crabs being vermin (no Int) and all, but when he said he wanted to carry it around in a fanny pack, he sold me.
To make it, I replaced a dungeon encounter with a giant mutated intelligent crab just so I could rationalize his familiar as being one of the mutant's offspring.
The crab is now the most entertaining aspect of the party, which is saying a lot considering that the gnome druid has a tyrannosaurus for an animal companion.
The best thing about pen & paper RPG's? When every session reminds you why you love them so much.
Yes! That. Can I use that as my familiar? And add a level of fighter get the +1 attack bonus and take the feat Exotic Weapong (Orc Shotput).Orc Shotput.
exotic weapon, 10ft range increment. 2d6 damage, 20x2 crit. Thrown only.
It is perhaps the single most awesome weapon ever printed. I saw it and made a barbarian/rogue that specialized in throwing it into peoples faces.
Would you use it to deliver touch spells?
I have one thing to say about this thread, Yap!
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You have awakened the thread from its eons of sleep! Now be prepared to suffer its curse!
lulz.
Well with the fighter archetype Eldritch Guardian a dog would be nasty... but it would actually be kinda cool and fitting... Like a Grey Warden and her faithful companion... Dog...
Like a Grey Warden and her faithful companion... Dog...
Also known as "Alistair".
The animal archive book says to use the fox stats for a dog familiar.