I teach High School math. Some of my students found out I DM, and they asked me to run a session at a school-sponsored game night. I did and everyone had fun, but is it too weird to make it a regular thing? One of the players is actually in my algebra class.
What say you?
If you were asking me as a kid, I'd say cool. Are you worried about some parents saying, weird?
Not weird unless your intention are (which I'll assume they aren't) but there are some social and professional risks involved. They may not be huge risks but they are still present.
If you were asking me as a kid, I'd say cool. Are you worried about some parents saying, weird?
I've always DM-ed for my friends... peers. Here there's a serious power differential.
No. Don't do it. You just know at some point some parent is going to freak out about something and it could cost you your job.
Just my 2 cp.
True, but kids are people too. If they want you to GM for them, then by all means, do. You can think about you would have liked to have been treated in such a situation as a kid, and I bet that side of things will fine.
EDIT: Because of clarification of OP, I left off the parental side of things.
It's probably not any more weird than having your math teacher as a volleyball coach (which is not uncommon in Canada, at least).
As long as you act professionally and hold your sessions on school property, there shouldn't be a problem.
Because of the stigmata that D&D has, I would take those concerns seriously. Most families won't look up the info and might just go off of the old, tried and true reasons for not having the kids play the game.
A good reason to run a Pathfinder game instead of a D&D game...
A good reason to run a Pathfinder game instead of a D&D game...
I meant D&D in a blanket term. :P
Knew I should have brought my weed whacker....
Pathfinder has no stigma!
You'll need that weed whacker for wannabes...
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While I would DM for students in my school, I don't thing DMing for a student who is in your class is a good idea. Regardless of your intent there is always going to be the smart alek who decides the kid is getting a better grade then he deserves because he is in your group. There is also going to be the student who thinks he should get a better grade because he plays in your group. I played D&D in school with a teacher as the DM and there were no issues, but none of us were his students at the time.
Also talk to your administrators and see what they think. If they know what is going on and okay it, it will go a long way to aleviating parental concerns.
Pathfinder has no stigma!
You'll need that weed whacker for wannabes...
LMAO
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My only thought is that you should leave the gore descriptions, rituals, and other stuff to a minimum. You don't want a kid going home and having mom overhear how "dude totally got his arm lopped off and fell onto the alter with the naked virgin tied up for sacrifice but then he got up and summoned a fiendish creature to rip the demon's throat out. Blood was everywhere!!!"
My only thought is that you should leave the gore descriptions, rituals, and other stuff to a minimum. You don't want a kid going home and having mom overhear how "dude totally got his arm lopped off and fell onto the alter with the naked virgin tied up for sacrifice but then he got up and summoned a fiendish creature to rip the demon's throat out. Blood was everywhere!!!"
But....thats the best part!!!!!!!!!
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The entire reason I played D&D in middle school."dude totally got his arm lopped off and fell onto the alter with the naked virgin tied up for sacrifice but then he got up and summoned a fiendish creature to rip the demon's throat out. Blood was everywhere!!!"
The entire reason I play Pathfinder now.... ;P
My only thought is that you should leave the gore descriptions, rituals, and other stuff to a minimum. You don't want a kid going home and having mom overhear how "dude totally got his arm lopped off and fell onto the alter with the naked virgin tied up for sacrifice but then he got up and summoned a fiendish creature to rip the demon's throat out. Blood was everywhere!!!"
This being High School I don't think that's as much of a problem, though it's probably still best to rein it in a bit.
While I would DM for students in my school, I don't thing DMing for a student who is in your class is a good idea. Regardless of your intent there is always going to be the smart alek who decides the kid is getting a better grade then he deserves because he is in your group. There is also going to be the student who thinks he should get a better grade because he plays in your group. I played D&D in school with a teacher as the DM and there were no issues, but none of us were his students at the time.
Also talk to your administrators and see what they think. If they know what is going on and okay it, it will go a long way to aleviating parental concerns.
Do think it would be different than say, coaching a team with a student from one of my classes? Maybe because D&D is hours of facetime conversation?
On the one hand my school does have an established "Anime and Gamers Club" at which D&D is a regular occurrence, but I can see how there's a difference between advising a club where gaming happens vs. getting right in there and running the game.
i'll definitely talk to my mentor teacher (I'm new at this whole teaching thing).
But....thats the best part!!!!!!!!!My only thought is that you should leave the gore descriptions, rituals, and other stuff to a minimum. You don't want a kid going home and having mom overhear how "dude totally got his arm lopped off and fell onto the alter with the naked virgin tied up for sacrifice but then he got up and summoned a fiendish creature to rip the demon's throat out. Blood was everywhere!!!"
The funny thing is the only word there that would get me trouble is "naked."
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While I would DM for students in my school, I don't thing DMing for a student who is in your class is a good idea. Regardless of your intent there is always going to be the smart alek who decides the kid is getting a better grade then he deserves because he is in your group. There is also going to be the student who thinks he should get a better grade because he plays in your group. I played D&D in school with a teacher as the DM and there were no issues, but none of us were his students at the time.
Also talk to your administrators and see what they think. If they know what is going on and okay it, it will go a long way to aleviating parental concerns.
Do think it would be different than say, coaching a team with a student from one of my classes? Maybe because D&D is hours of facetime conversation?
On the one hand my school does have an established "Anime and Gamers Club" at which D&D is a regular occurrence, but I can see how there's a difference between advising a club where gaming happens vs. getting right in there and running the game.
i'll definitely talk to my mentor teacher (I'm new at this whole teaching thing).
It is definately different then coaching a team. There you still have the authority heirachy that exists in the class room. However, as a DM it is a more social atmosphere and one where lines of authority could easily get blurred.
While I would DM for students in my school, I don't thing DMing for a student who is in your class is a good idea. Regardless of your intent there is always going to be the smart alek who decides the kid is getting a better grade then he deserves because he is in your group. There is also going to be the student who thinks he should get a better grade because he plays in your group. I played D&D in school with a teacher as the DM and there were no issues, but none of us were his students at the time.
Also talk to your administrators and see what they think. If they know what is going on and okay it, it will go a long way to aleviating parental concerns.
Do think it would be different than say, coaching a team with a student from one of my classes? Maybe because D&D is hours of facetime conversation?
On the one hand my school does have an established "Anime and Gamers Club" at which D&D is a regular occurrence, but I can see how there's a difference between advising a club where gaming happens vs. getting right in there and running the game.
i'll definitely talk to my mentor teacher (I'm new at this whole teaching thing).
The big difference between coaching a sport and running a campaign would be that the sports team is school sanctioned, they gave you that position and one of your students happens to be on it. Meanwhile D&D is something you'd have to run on your own time and has no direct control from the school. Probably the safest thing to do is start a D&D club or join in at the VG/Anime clubs. I don't think the administrators would have much of a problem with that.
Also, talk to Anime/Manga club teacher. There may be room for another club, and structure is the way to go in the school setting.
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As a student myself I have to say, good on you for being the, if not the cool teacher, the interesting teacher (which is always better). Although i know it might be great to be able to dm for the younglings, maybe it would be better for them, and less work for you, if this went more in the direction of a student run teacher directed club?
If your school already has a gaming club this might be a little cumbersome but it could work out if scheduled correctly.
Short answer: Don't.
I used to GM at university while being a Research Fellow. Because my job involved running postgraduate projects at master level, I made damn sure than none of the students I played with were in my Department. To be fair it never happened, so I never had to face the problem. Had it happened, I would have turned down the player.
The concept is that of being in a "position of influence", where one has to mark or otherwise evaluate someone with whom they have a social/leisure interaction. The wording is usually associated with situations of teachers/lecturers/etc potentially taking advantage sexually of the student, but it extends pretty easily to such an extra-curricular situation, unless the activity is sanctioned by the school as it has been mentioned above - in this case GMing an RPG session would technically become part of your job.
In other words, also as mentioned above, if one kid or the kid's family starts complaining or making stuff up, you are pretty likely to lose your job first and defend yourself second. Then even if proven innocent, because of the nature of the profession and the popular belief that all male employees in a teaching profession are pedophiles and females "sexual predators" (thanks to the British press), the stain on one's reputation becomes even bigger on one's CV.
Playing and GMing Pathfinder is great, I am not saying the contrary, but to my knowledge one needs a job to survive, and risking one's for a leisure activity (however low the chance of encountering problems) is not a great move to make.
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I teach High School math. Some of my students found out I DM, and they asked me to run a session at a school-sponsored game night. I did and everyone had fun, but is it too weird to make it a regular thing? One of the players is actually in my algebra class.
What say you?
Make sure that you have all of the procedural bases covered for running such a club after-school and go for it. It was my English teacher wandering in one morning with an interesting looking red box with a gold dragon on the front that got me hooked, and I played in his Lord of the Rings campaign using the ruleset he devised (from scratch) for the world.
He was single-handedly responsible for making me realise that I still needed to pass English to get into university to study Astrophysics. DnD was a large help towards me doing so.
Good luck.
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because of the nature of the profession and the popular belief that all male employees in a teaching profession are pedophiles and females "sexual predators" (thanks to the British press), the stain on one's reputation becomes even bigger on one's CV.
I do hate my country sometimes. It really wasn't an issue when I was at school. I really hope it won't be when my kid is old enough to chuck a d20.
Howdy, Lord Slaavik. I was thinking of starting a Pathfinder Club at my college, as I'm trying to go from adjunct to professor and they've spread the word around that they are going to be looking to see what applicants have done with students outside of class!
By the way, you look like the kind of fellow who should have posted in my Atlantean fiction thread. ;)
In the end I think many happy hours of gaming is NOT worth putting my career at risk. It would only take one complaining parent or one student with emotional problems acting out to make me regret the whole thing. Sad.
You might want to make sure that you get permission from the school and permission slips or something from every student and under 18 person who attends. If you do this then make sure everyone, including the parent, know what is going on and is cool with it. As myself and others have pointed out (and I'm sure you are already aware of) there is a potential disaster waiting to happen if all your basises aren't covered.
Might want to check with the wife too if you have one just to be sure. :)
EDIT: We understand. It does suck.
In the end I think many happy hours of gaming is NOT worth putting my career at risk. It would only take one complaining parent or one student with emotional problems acting out to make me regret the whole thing. Sad.
Is it possible/feasable to have them sign waivers
or something to that extent? If I was still in schoolI would have loved a teacher to do this.
Howdy, Lord Slaavik. I was thinking of starting a Pathfinder Club at my college, as I'm trying to go from adjunct to professor and they've spread the word around that they are going to be looking to see what applicants have done with students outside of class!
By the way, you look like the kind of fellow who should have posted in my Atlantean fiction thread. ;)
As long as there is no relation examiner/student it is perfectly fine for a member of staff at university to be friendly, or to participate in activities (team sports, RPG society, arts, religious societies, etc) with students.
To be fair to the system, it is true that if one is supervising or assessing a friend or an acquaintance as part of their professional activity, there is a great potential for breaking the rules.In fact it is highly probable that your running RPG sessions at the local Student Union (with students not related to your Department/School) would count positively towards a professional evaluation exercise.
After a while, you may realise though that students are always young, each and every one of them lasts only for the duration of their degree, and your are always around. I solved that issue by joining a local D&D meetup group (meetup.com). Now, I play with people belonging to my own age group.
[Atlantean fiction thread]
Sorry, I did not get that...
Playing with people of my own age group is my vast majority of experience, but teaching my daughter and then my nephews, where I employed a lot of what I've learned teaching across the grade levels, opened me up to the idea. As did the promise of a salary and benefits instead of contract pay. I'll go bump my thread so I can pick your brain.
PI'll go bump my thread so I can pick your brain.
Done.
Ehhhhhhhh....
Talk to the parents first.
First sign of trouble, bow out.
Look out for number one, man.
UUURRRGGG!!!!
It ticks me off that this question even has to be pondered or asked. People are people, not students or teachers. Those are merely titles applied to certain relationships at certain times. When you're not teaching them, you're not their teacher, you're a human being. When they aren't in class, they aren't students, they're human beings. We all really should be able to relate to each other on that level.
Unfortunately, in most peoples minds, title = identity, and we have to live with that, which is the reason that this question has to be asked.
Philosophy aside, I'd say that since it would be at an already approved school club (at least that's what you seemed to be saying), during that club's meeting time, and the activity is related to the club's purpose for existence, you're scott free. This of course depends on making sure that you speak with the teacher that sponsors the club and get the permission from him/her to cut in on their space. Also, don't do anything that could be construed as endorsing satanism or witchcraft (not that there's anything wrong with those religions per se, but most of the American population, and especially most parents, don't realize that, or the fact that NONE of the D&D diabolistic things are actually even related to satanism or witchcraft in anything other then name and undeserved reputation). Only allow good aligned PC's, and just don't make the evil too heavy or dark.
Personally, I don't think you really should be worried about the student that is in one of your classes, just as you would have to be worried about a student that is in your class joining any other club that you may be the sponsor of, though I guess the others have a point about the assumption of bias towards the student.
Just my 2 cp, and I know you already seemed to have decided against it, but I just wanted to present the fact that I think you should respect them as human beings and be willing to interact with them on that level. I know I would have done a LOT better in school if I had been treated that way.
Now I'm leaning toward it being ok in the context of the already-existing gaming club.
Now I'm leaning toward it being ok in the context of the already-existing gaming club.
I would suggest you find out who originally authorized the formation of the gaming club. That's the person who already assessed the potential risk of having D&D in a setting connected to the school. They can tell you far more about your particular school and town than we can.
As for ethical issues - you place yourself in the position of being better acquainted with certain students than you are with others. It's no different than coaching a sports team, having a student as a neighbor, or going to the same church as a student. Which means be self-aware and watch for favoritism, but you'll otherwise be fine.
AS others probaly mentioned make sure that the kids parents give approval before alowing a kid to play and also make sure the school is ok with it too.
If everyone inolved is cool with it run the game.
I teach High School math. Some of my students found out I DM, and they asked me to run a session at a school-sponsored game night. I did and everyone had fun, but is it too weird to make it a regular thing? One of the players is actually in my algebra class.
What say you?
I have a friend in NY who DMs for grade school kids in an after school program. He started small - trying it out with a handful of kids - and got amazing results with kids learning how to work together to acheive a goal and helped them practice their math skills. (The kids get to keep cards with the stats of the monsters they defeat.) He put together a proposal and now gets paid (not much)to run D&D games. (He's a full time teacher and runs a game or two for a few hours on a weekend or after school.)
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Technically, you are "fraternizing with students" and furthermore as DM you're in a position to reward/punish a student for non-academic matters. You have to bow out, but you can do so with grace....snip...
A coach oversees a team from a clear authority position but does not play on the team.
..snip...
Gaming is inherently a social and group-oriented activity, and the relationship is different.
I disagree utterly. This falls into the "sports are different" trap.
A coach is in a more powerful position to punish people for non-academic matters, as he can kick people off the team. Team sports are, if anything, more 'social and group-oriented' than gaming.
If we were talking about a chess club where the teacher wanted to play a few games, would we even be having this discussion?
Mentorship is never wierd; everyone needs a niche, so I say cool.
As RezDave suggests, I think I'll start by running a few sessions, but with the goal of transitioning into the background.
I'll have assistant DMs to do things like run specific encounters, create NPCs or handle plot questions until they feel ready to take the reigns, with me as an advisor.
BTW RezDave, which Rez?
if you have to go through the rigamarol of selling it to the school and to parents; I would stick to a theme of selling it as learning English literature themes of archtypes; Mythology if you use the stuff from dieties and demigods; and about story themes and how to write and adventure as compared to writing a novel; also that it has situational logic puzzles and things like that; defang the hype this way and sell it as a scholastic thing; after all; only the best and brightest can play this game well; those who read and study; consider how much source material is out there. The more you know; the better you play this game.