Golems are annoying enough with their magic immunity, then you have to deal with a random undead popping out. I will probably have to set the knowledge DC pretty high to make sure they don't see this one coming.
I like this one.
I like this a lot. I'm a bit put off on an 'ossuary' not having bones in it but no one else seems to mind.
I think this would be a great addition to the creation section, requiring the bones of the undead creature that is going to be trapped inside of it to actually be placed in the golem during creation... for corporeal creatures just stick the whole creature in there, the bones are in side their bodies, but for incorporeal creatures it would require the creator to go "did up" what ever skeletal fragments remain of the creatures original bodies.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
aka Tarren Dei
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I like this a lot. I'm a bit put off on an 'ossuary' not having bones in it but no one else seems to mind.I think this would be a great addition to the creation section, requiring the bones of the undead creature that is going to be trapped inside of it to actually be placed in the golem during creation... for corporeal creatures just stick the whole creature in there, the bones are in side their bodies, but for incorporeal creatures it would require the creator to go "did up" what ever skeletal fragments remain of the creatures original bodies.
That sounds fine. I'd be happy with that. The bones would be there but that doesn't mean the undead has to take the form of a skeleton.
Me likee. I read it and immediately wanted to stat one up and throw it at my players. We had to end a session in the middle of a Flesh Golem fight so this would be a nasty shock, assuming they aren't all reading these entries ;-)
Nice one!
Maybe the flesh can fall off the golem, revealing some kind of nasty skeletal undead.
Maybe the flesh can fall off the golem, revealing some kind of nasty skeletal undead.
What CR is Terminator?
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How did the author respond to the challenge? Not badly, spent a lot of word count on backstory and variants, though that's not necessarily wrong.
How does it stack up
- as an opponent? What's novel about this monster is its release of the bound undead, so likewise, I found the most notable difference in its tactics was its leakage of negative energy, using the comparatively rare bolstering mechanics. Enervating rays from a construct, which typically demand the best attacks and damage the party can muster to deal with them, could be a particularly nasty combination.
- as something other than an opponent? The author describes their creation in detail and gives reasons why their creator might place them in larger numbers (a consideration for their likely Challenge Rating).
- in relation to other monsters? I like interesting variant monsters, which I think this is, rather than a freestanding concept. The mentioned shadow demon variant seems dubious, probably needing very different abilities, though I note it's only a suggestion.
- in relation to the author's item? I liked the batrachian helm, but I'm a little uneasy about how far the author's stretching his ideas, in combination with this entry.
- in itself? I thought its powers and abilities delved a little too much into various streams of negative energy, which I don't think is the most interesting side of this concept.
It's a creditable monster concept in general, perhaps as a secondary encounter in an adventure. I don't think it goes far enough as a bid for Superstardom.
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I like this a lot. I'm a bit put off on an 'ossuary' not having bones in it but no one else seems to mind.
I'm not rapt about that either, but plenty of other entries have naming issues. I suppose there's nothing to stop it having (inert) bones of the undead thing's body inside as a detail of its construction.
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I could *totally* see this as an animated sarcophagus-dealie, that when finally broken down, releases the mummy that has been empowering it, or a special ornate ambulatory burial crypt that when sundered open releases the vampire lord who is trapped within.
It's also a neat tweak to have a vampiric wizard craft a non-prison version of such a thing for his own resting place, and it can defend him while he's asleep. During the night, he slips out in gaseous form and does his thing (and the golem is powerless and inert during that time, as the power source, the vampire, is out and about).
Something just occurred to me --
This is kind of a D&D/Fantasy version of the Warhammer 40k Space Marines Dreadnought. I don't think that's a bad thing because A) they aren't very similar in power level (40k Dreadnoughts are one of the most powerful units a SM army can field), B) they aren't at all similar in origin (40k Dreads are sacred relics containing the barely-operational bodies of almost-dead Marines), and C) 40k Dreadnoughts are just cool and there really wasn't anything like them in D&D.
The similarities really end at "almost-dead being encased in an automaton", but I had to share the thought anyway.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
aka deemshy
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Oooooh! I really like this monster! I can see it clearly in my mind. I especially like the imagery of it marching towards fleeing adventurers while it shoots life-sucking beams from its eyes!
Great stuff!
I agree with Roguerouge that it really feels like something from an old sci-fi movie.
I also envision this as the final defense of an imprisoned uber-powerful undead. You know, it took 30 wizards to cage it, but they couldn't destroy it. They put it in this golem and bury it deep underground behind all kinds of traps and warnings. When it is finally uncovered, the thing has instructions to run to a new hiding place. I see the head rotating 360 and shooting its pursuers as it goes. The adventurers finally catch up, and when they hit it, it sprays negative energy at them (or add blinding or something like that if you want). If it can't get away and gets cornered, then it turns to destroy those that would set what's inside it free.
Or it could be a creation of a twisted evil dude... whatever.
Amazing idea.
Thank you.
Maybe the flesh can fall off the golem, revealing some kind of nasty skeletal undead.What CR is Terminator?
I finally got around to watching the first one from beginning to end yesterday! :-)
Termninators do not have See-Awwwh. They terminate you and you get no XP! MUHAHAHAHA!!!!
I like the idea of this creature.
I think it might work better as a template, requiring an level-draining undead at its core, with the creature's powers based on what's inside. Making it a template would help the CR be more accurate--it prevents Golem A with a wight in it from having the same CR of Golem B which contains a dread wraith.
I don't want to ruffle any feathers, or sound like I'm trying to out-rules lawyer the Paizo staff, but I am genuinely confused. I don't see how this should be a template. The Bestiary has a precedent for this, and I was given what I thought was an official response to this issue.
This issue is very closely related to a question I asked Paizo Customer Service on Jan 13th via email. I posed the question on the message boards on Jan 18th here as well (no reply on message board), before receiving Jason Bulmahn's response.
My question dealt with Intellect Devourers, but the essential issue was "what happens to the CR and stat block when one creature is inside another"?
Mr. Bulmahn's response, via email, was "They should generally be kept as one stat block, but you could supply the combined creature separately. As for the CR, they should probably be counted as two creatures."
I don't see how this is different than a "generic I.D." inside a drider, and an "I.D. Sorcerer 8" inside another drider.
If the CR is separate, then what difference does it make what the combination happens to be? Especially considering that an I.D. could still use it's own powers (and spell casting if it has it) while inside a host, but the trapped undead at issue here can't do anything.
If you could clarify this rule, it would both help me, and I have a feeling, help Matthew next round.
Matthew:
Good creature. I still have more to read, but you probably have my vote. I have a strong feeling you will advance.
PS. Capturing the undead will be a tough trick, especially if it's incorporeal.
Termninators do not have See-Awwwh. They terminate you and you get no XP! MUHAHAHAHA!!!!
:-)
I don't see how this is different than a "generic I.D." inside a drider, and an "I.D. Sorcerer 8" inside another drider.
If the CR is separate, then what difference does it make what the combination happens to be? Especially considering that an I.D. could still use it's own powers (and spell casting if it has it) while inside a host, but the trapped undead at issue here can't do anything.
Nor is it any different than if Encounter B shows up around when Encounter A has been defeated because the commotion alerted them to intruders. PCs could be using Negative Energy to damage the contained undead before the container is broken, but that wouldn't be doing anything to defeat the Golem. I don't really think this is the complication some people seem to think it might be, and even if it was complicated, that's an issue for the stat block not the description.
I can't help but think of the Incredibad song about "* in a box" when I read this...
1. Carve a big stone box.
2. Put your undead in that box.
3. Make the heroes open that box.
apologies... :)
-Ben.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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I like this a lot. I was wondering if anyone would submit a new type of an old monster, such as a golem, giant, etc, and glad to see you did. The trick with this is to not make too close a copy of the others. For example, a mithral golem that was just a suped up iron golem wouldn't be too creative. You avoided doing that as well.
I don't see any problem with how to mix and match golem and undead power source. You could accomplish that as simply as saying the base golem has 8 HD and uses a shadow, and you need more powerful undead to create higher HD versions of the golem, i.e. for a 10 HD version, you need a wriath, for a 14 HD version you need a specter, etc. Or, you could have the base version use the shadow, and an greater version use a specter, and have that give it stronger necromantic powers. You could use a template as well, but since the captive undead doesn't have any impact until the golem is destroyed, I don't think that's the way to go.
Excellent job, and one of my votes! (I'm particularly looking forward to the exceptions on the golem magic immunity and how they might affect the undead inside)
Make fun of my strange fancies all you want, I was particularly attracted to the sheer malevolence of this monster. Being imprisoned in one of these things would be no vacation: It's a hell on legs.
If I was to put my own twist on this golem, its holding chamber would be akin to an iron maiden torture device that, after killing its victim, prevents them from leaving the plane. Once destroyed, the spirit within lashes out in anger!
...Forgive me for getting side-tracked. This is a great idea, and at the end of the day it will probably get my vote.
Regards.
1. Carve a big stone box.
2. Put your undead in that box.
3. Make the heroes open that box.
Sadly, gricks aren't undead.
Sadly, gricks aren't undead.1. Carve a big stone box.
2. Put your undead in that box.
3. Make the heroes open that box.*rereads ghost template*
*nods head*It's a grick in a box!
Not gonna submit a +3 ring.
That kind of item don't mean anything.Not gonna submit a gross mon-star...
Girl you know this is RPG Superstar.
-Ben.
(they encouraged me!)
"Those who defeat an ossuary golem often find victory to be short-lived, as the golem's destruction merely releases the trapped undead."
"Ossuary golems generally contain incorporeal undead"
"evil individuals who dislike the willfulness of their intelligent undead minions."
"Even good-aligned spellcasters will occasionally create ossuary golems in order to seal away dangerous undead that are difficult to destroy permanently."
"The glowing eye sockets of the golem discharge magical rays that drain the life force of living targets, and opponents who heavily damage the golem's body can cause it to release a torrent of negative energy."
"Ossuary golems are particularly dangerous in groups, as the negative energy they emit can bolster undead freed from other destroyed golems."
I do not like this creature, as written it is more of a template for undead creatures than a golem, that way you can actually detemine a CR. While the idea has some merrit it would have been much better if limited to wraiths or spectres, hinting at other variants of this golem.
Typical undead to fit this golem are not very high in CR hinting at the fact that this golem is actually quite weak, the powers sounded fairly impressive dealing with a powerful golem just to be bothered by a weak undead springing up from it's remains isn't doing much for me.
A golem actually shortcuts some problems that will come up when actually creating this creature which to me doesn't seem like you actually attempted to, like : construction, gold value, spells and special attakc sit reacts to in a special way.
As a practical matter I'd expected the golem to have at least the ghosttouch ability, this would go well with containing the incorporeal undead.
The writing style might be edited but not 'great', I do not think it is a terrible creature, although not superstar material.
I do not like this creature, as written it is more of a template for undead creatures than a golem
Why does this matter? Templates are legal.
Director of Brand Strategy
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This is a really cool concept, and one with a ton of in-game applications. I think you're setting up some tough design choices down the road, though, since putting a CR on this or determining how it would work in a variety of situations can be tricky and it's easy to overlook circumstances that will make what is essentially a double-creature either way too powerful or weaksauce.
I keep thinking it's called an "estuary golem" for some reason, even though the name and concept are clearly more container-like than tidal-river-mouth-like. It's my own issue, though, and not one related to your monster.
Great work here, and I look forward to seeing your entries in future rounds. Best of luck!
I definitely like this one, and actually hope that it IS indeed a template. I haven't seen too many templates in Pathfinder, and despite the overabundance of terrible templates in 3.5, have been waiting and hoping for a good one to come along. This is one I could enjoy as such, and even see potential for increased abilities dependant upon the power of the undead imprisoned within. Yeah, tricky to stat out, but I somehow don't think you'd have too much trouble with that.
And if it's not a template, it still is an awesome concept, and still very much usable. I really like the "toy surpise inside" :-D
Best use of death throes I've seen in quite a while. Looking forawrd to seeing THIS one statted out.
Does it grab me visually: I like that the golem itself looks fairly generic, just a statue with some runes on it and a skull head; it helps hide the big ability. Not really a fan of the eye beams. I can never describe them properly without it sounding like Cyclops from X-Men.
Would I use it in game: Yes. The undead trap could easily fit into many different scenarios, and could still be fresh with a different undead baddie inside.
Would my players enjoy an encounter with it: Yes. I’ve noticed that after players kill a golem, the spellcasters can’t wait to fight something that is affected by their spells. And the ossuary golem gives them the perfect opportunity to vent their frustration.
Good point that, it sets up one of the few golem encounters that won't leave casters frustrated and feeling helpless.
I do not like this creature, as written it is more of a template for undead creatures than a golemWhy does this matter? Templates are legal.
It is aimed at the workability to stat this golem out properly and assign a CR to it, I am not implying it is illegal. It strikes me more like 'ghost in a shell' than a golem.
I have some issues with the design as a whole, it seems to get enough praise though, and after reading the other submissions I would think it has no trouble carrying over to the next round.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka flash_cxxi
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I Love it!
I like the look, the powers and the surprise ending. I agree that it will be difficult to place it in a CR, but even that doesn't sway me from liking this. Too Cool for School! :)
I defiantely think that this will be in my Top 4 and it has well earned it's place in my Keep pile.
Good Luck. :)
Ossuary Golem
cut for space
This is my thirty-second and final review. I did not read the thread or any comments before posting my thoughts. If anything here duplicates someone else’s thoughts, well great minds think alike!
Here we go. It’s an undead. It’s a construct! You got your lack of Constitution in my lack of Intelligence! Two great tastes that go great together. Annnnnnd it’s another Gotcha Monster. Kill the construct, “boo” a ghost leaps out. Alright, I do like the idea that evil necromancers like to imprison undead within these constructs since they can’t do anything while inside. But what’s the purpose? Why would the evil necromancer trap the undead within if it can’t do anything? It makes a lot more sense the way that you have it to have good casters create these as undead traps, but then why make them mobile?
Powers:
*extraordinary strength and immunity to magic of golems (check)
*trapped undead fuels potent necromantic abilities (ah, this is flavor)
*eye sockets discharge magic life-draining rays (ouch – cool – breaking the “must be a touch attack to level drain” design principle though unfortunately using one of the aspects of gameplay that is less fun for PCs, aka level drain)
*damage the golem’s body to release negative energy (check)
*when finally destroyed, it explodes (yay, like a balor!) with negative energy to bolster other undead
Summary: It’s a golem with an undead trapped in it. Nice justification for having a golem that will really mess with the PCs. There’s a certain inherent cruelty factor in this that does appeal to the Evil DM. That said, this is one of several Gotcha Monsters this year. I’m afraid I tend to discount a bit for that. Upon reflection, this is a clever combination of the two types of critters and I give you points for that, however I have to make a final voting decision soon. I would like this a lot more I think if it had a different or better justification for giving both these effects together. Your writing is solid, and that’s a point. I suspect you’ll advance given how this creature will appeal.
I can hear my players cursing at me now. Wonderful idea and I am stunned this was never done in any edition of the game before! The only thing I would lose is the eye beams..not only are they not very golem like, but they are a bit over the top.
A great idea. Deffinatley getting a vote from me. I love the fact that the undead are trapped inside and used against their will. Muahahah!
Thanks to everyone who took the time to check out the Ossuary Golem, with a special thanks to those who voted for it! ;)
Sean suggests that a discussion of mechanics would be unwise at this stage, so I'll unfortunately have to wait on those questions.
Design notes:
My "creative flash of insight" for the monster round was a scene around the table where the PCs defeat a difficult monster, only to have its malevolent spirit reform and continue the fight.
After a few flirtations with a mummy variant that manifested as an incorporeal spirit after its physical body had been destroyed, I decided that a golem would be both more versatile from a DM's perspective and a little bit more fun to design. Golems are typically powered by elemental spirits, so a golem powered by a trapped undead seemed like a fun design space to explore. My Google-fu suggested that the "undead in a box" idea was not that common as a monster concept, so I set to work!
One of the hardest parts was deciding on a name. Ossuary, sarcophagus, coffin, urn, and sepulcher were all words I considered. Sarcophagus had immediate Egyptian connotations, coffin had a similar issue with vampires, and urn seemed potentially insensitive towards those who've had relatives cremated, so they were discarded. I liked the connotations of sepulchre, particularly the well-known quotation from the book of Matthew ("for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness") but on the other hand, sepulchre usually refers to the entire tomb structure, and it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Ossuary was a term often linked to the Capuchin monks (as many of you noticed!), but it also had the more general definition of "receptacle for the bones of the dead" and was a little easier to say than "sepulchre".
Why would an evil/good spellcaster make one of these in the first place?
For evil spellcasters, it's a way to enhance the power of an undead guardian (since both the construct and the undead have to be defeated) and a way to convert an intelligent undead into a creature that is required to follow orders. Sure, that undead could always get free and want revenge, but what threat could a lowly undead minion REALLY pose to such a powerful mage, right? ;)
For good spellcasters, some undead creatures - particularly ghosts(which can reform) and vampires(which often have hidden coffins) - can be difficult to deal with. With an ossuary golem, one can seal the dangerous creature in a container that can a) remain inert for centuries unless disturbed and b) can defend itself if attacked. It's not a perfect solution by any means, but in my experience, imperfect solutions tend to make for better stories.
If you have any more non-mechanical questions, please ask! Do note that if I make it to the next round, there may be a delay before I answer said questions as I frantically work on the next challenge. ;)
Congratulations! And thanks for your design notes!
Congrats Mr. Mcgee,
I feel it's likely that we're going to see a few stated incarnations of your beastie in round 3, seems to be a real crowd-pleaser.
Matthew:
First of all, congratulations on making it to the Top 16. I thought I would wait until after the voting for Round Two ended before offering any commentary or advice. And I'm going to come at it a little differently, in that I'm not going to focus primarily on your design this round. Rather, I'm going to have a go at examining your entire portfolio to this point to sort of assess what you've done well, where you could shore up a few things in your overall design and writing, and then give you some more pointed advice on stuff you could showcase in future rounds to maybe improve your chances of going all the way to the end. So, with that in mind, here goes:
Well, you're 2 for 2 in my book. The batrachian helm and the Ossuary Golem are both right up at the top of the pile in both rounds. That's no accident and I think it speaks well to the innovative ideas you keeping bringing. I'd recommend you keep doing that. And, if you do, you'll very likely be standing at the end with a shot at the adventure proposal.
When I look back at the batrachian helm, I'm reminded that you only used 169 words out of your 300-word maximum. So, you resisted the urge to throw in everything but the kitchen sink. And I think that's a sign of a refined designer...someone who's able to distill something down to its most awesome parts, execute those parts as flawlessly as possible, and then stop. It's kind of like a painter who can sense when his artistic masterpiece is at risk of becoming too cluttered.
For the Ossuary Golem, you used up almost your full word allotment. And, since most of this assignment is flavor-based, you needed to take advantage of that. And again, you did it well. I think the biggest element to the Ossuary Golem was the innovation of the undead contained inside the golem, powering it until its released. I do agree with some of the other judges that you didn't quite take it far enough. Defining the CR for the golem and making sure its in alignment with whatever undead it contains would be paramount. Likewise, if varying types of undead could be contained, it would make more sense to turn this into a tempate and have the golem's abilities vary somewhat by the type of undead that powers it. That would also let you scale the CR depending on the "construction" requirements levied by the contained undead.
Regardless, it's a really cool concept. One of the best...if not the best...of the round. That puts you at the forefront. And the batrachian helm already had you up there to begin with...so expectations are going to keep mounting for you. Don't take your eye off the ball. Keep swinging as hard as you can and you'll almost certainly be carried into the final round with a shot to pitch an adventure proposal.
Best of luck,
--Neil
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
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I think the reason I liked this so much is that I have been playing an epic level vampire that uses a hollow, and living, warforged as armor to allow her to walk around in sunlight for a few years now.
Sneaky that I didn't make the connection until now, and gratz on the top 16.
Congratulations! Though you did not get my final vote, this was a strong entry and a strong candidate for me.
Visual: 18 Charisma
Creativity: 15 Intelligence
Would I use it: 12 Dex
Overall: 15 Strength
This one was hard for me not to like because of the golem nature. I was hooked with the idea of an undead being in it. However it would need to be a specific undead, not a random one to see any use. If you look at the CR for golems compared to undead, one half or the other will be too powerful or too underwelming.
Still I loved the basics. Good luck in the future rounds!
ps am I the only one who thinks this photo shows an undead escaping form the golem? *grin*