Bombs


Round 3: Alchemist and Inquisitor


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

During our last gaming session ( a filler game between “Council of Thieves” 3 & 4, to introduce a players new character to replace the dead one. ), a question concerning my alchemists bombs came up :

“What are they and how do they affect DR (and other type of protective effects)?”

Some players said they were only alchemical devices and as such not magical. If so, then they would become less powerful at higher levels as they would be unable to overcome DR and other protective effect.

The GM & I said that it was a Supernatural Ability, going as far as stating that the alchemist puts a bit of his magical essence into the bomb. In that case, based on the general interpretation of a supernatural ability (PF 221), they can overcome SR.

However, there is no mention of a supernatural ability that can overcome DR.

So are they magical in nature and do they overcome DR?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

They are a Supernatural Ability, and should count as a magic for the purpose of DR, SR and other protective effects. Least that's what we came up with last night while bombing shadows.

Sovereign Court

You guys should probably have just flipped to the Damage Reduction section and read it completely, you missed a sentence which is very easy to do in a 500+ page book. It's just a quick line in the description of Damage Reduction that reads:

"Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction."

Alchemist bombs deal fire damage, a type of energy damage, and thus they are not subject to damage reduction. They are of course subject to resistances and immunities to the type of energy damage they deal with, fire in most cases.

As for the other effects the bombs are indeed a Supernatural Ability from their entry. That means that the following comes into effect:
"Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an anti-magic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counter-spelling."

So no DR or SR comes into play for Alchemists. They just need to watch out for fighting monsters that resist or ignore fire damage, assuming they don't take something like the Acid Bomb Discovery.


Morgen wrote:

You guys should probably have just flipped to the Damage Reduction section and read it completely, you missed a sentence which is very easy to do in a 500+ page book. It's just a quick line in the description of Damage Reduction that reads:

"Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction."

Alchemist bombs deal fire damage, a type of energy damage, and thus they are not subject to damage reduction. They are of course subject to resistances and immunities to the type of energy damage they deal with, fire in most cases.

As for the other effects the bombs are indeed a Supernatural Ability from their entry. That means that the following comes into effect:
"Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an anti-magic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counter-spelling."

So no DR or SR comes into play for Alchemists. They just need to watch out for fighting monsters that resist or ignore fire damage, assuming they don't take something like the Acid Bomb Discovery.

I think the extracts should NOT be (Su) abilities of the Alchemist. This specific post shows the contradiction.

1. (Su) cannot be dispelled, which it specifically states that extracts CAN be affected by dispel.
2. (Sp) They should be spell-like effects, because spell-like effects can be affected by dispel, and the alchemist is putting his spell energy into his bombs and extracts.

I think a clarification or a change of the abilities of the Alchemist to state either:

Alchemy (Sp) instead of (Su)

I know it is kind of offtopic for this thread, thread hi-jack not intended, but this post specifically addresses problems that could be future arguements. Or at least a rules clarification or adjustment.

Previous comment on bombs is correct, but the Alchemy (Su) is an oversight.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Hrmm, unless it was intended that Extracts not be dispelled? That would be an impressive ability on their part.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Hrmm, unless it was intended that Extracts not be dispelled? That would be an impressive ability on their part.

Just needs clarification, since their effects are spell-like effects that can be dispelled like any other spell, and the extracts "act" like potions, they could be subject to dispel magic.

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