Well I've been pondering how do do the Shaman class, the only one I don't feel comfortable with the existing plethora of pathfinder classes. (I just used summoner for warlocks)
My thoughts on Shaman so far:
CHA based, spontaneous divine casters
Weapons - simple, Quarterstaff, 1-h Axes.
Armor - Light and Mediumof course my biggest issue is how to do the various totems.
I was thinking the drop would be 1 at level 4 and then every 4 levels after that (8, 12, 16)Bonus feats would would allow for combat style feats for the "Enhancement Shammy"
But it's all kind of pinging around in my head.
Maybe it could be a CHA based Druid with some minor tweaks to class abilities or an Oracle without the curses and more of a focus on Nature.
If you wanted to make stats for Worgen why not look at the Shifter race of Eberron for inspirations behind a 'Lesser' Werewolf race as a playable race that isn't powerful (as to be required to start at later levels as Core Rulebook suggest for powerful races)?
Maybe it could be a CHA based Druid with some minor tweaks to class abilities or an Oracle without the curses and more of a focus on Nature.
Actually, I sort of did just that. I made them a Spontaneous Druid Caster essentially, tweaked the spell list a bit. Still decided to go with some totems but the abilities are still coming slowly, I've been using Hero Lab and just throwing stuff in (the easy stuff first, Languages, a few races, etc).
I've been going mostly quick and dirty, decided to use the "Race Levels" from the White Wolf game and have been working on those.
Also added (from a previous non-related campaign) a Giant Borne Bloodline for sorcerers.
And one more.
Gnome Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength; Gnomes are quick and charming, but the lack the strength of larger races.
Small Size: Due to their size, gnomes get a +1 bonus to Armor Class, a +1 bonus to attack rolls, a +4 bonus to Stealth checks, and a -1 penalty to Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense.
Slow Speed: Base speed for gnomes is 20 ft.
Low-light Vision: Gnomes can see twice as far as human in poor lighting conditions.
Crafty: Gnomes gain a +2 racial bonus to all Craft checks.
Keen Senses: Gnomes get a +2 racial bonus to Perception checks.
Resilient: A gnome gets a +1 bonus to all saving throws.
Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes are proficient with all weapons with the word Gnomish in the name.
Languages: Gnomes speak Common an Gnome. Gnomes with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Elven, Dwarven, and Goblin.
Wayyyyy late for this...but I might give gnomes a high Intelligence than Charisma. But YMMV
I'd like to thank David and Omega9999 for their work on the conversions, since I gobbled them up for my campaign. :)
Anyway since I've taken and not really given, here's some stat blocks of the creatures I've converted from the White Wolf game.
Riding Kodo CR 4
Male Kodo Beast, Riding
NN Large Animal
Init +1; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +2
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DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 16. . (+1 Dex, -1 size, +7 natural)
hp 76 (8d8+40)
Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +4
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 50 ft.
Melee Gore (Kodo Beast, Riding) +13 (2d6+12/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Powerful Charge, Stampede, Swallow Whole, AC 13, 7 HP)
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STATISTICS
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Str 26, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 7
Base Atk +6; CMB +15; CMD 26 (30 vs. Trip)
Feats
Skills Fly -1, Stealth -3
Languages Common
SQ Improved Grab
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Improved Grab Start a grapple if you hit with your Bite attack.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Powerful Charge (Ex) Your charge attacks deal additional damage.
Stampede (Ex) Trample improves with multiple tramplers.
Swallow Whole, AC 13, 7 HP) (Ex) You can swallow smaller targets whole.
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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
WIP Frostsaber
Frostsaber CR 6
Male Panther, Frostsaber
NN Medium Magical Beast
Init +3; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision; Perception +0
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DEFENSE
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AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 15. . (+3 Dex, +5 natural)
hp 85 (9d10+36)
Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +3
DR 5/magic
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OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 40 ft.
Melee Bite (Panther, Frostsaber) +14 (1d6+5/20/x2) and
. . Claws x2 (Panther, Frostsaber) +14 x2 (1d4+5/20/x2) and
. . Rake x2 (Panther, Frostsaber) +14 x2 (1d4+5/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Pounce
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STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +9; CMB +14; CMD 27 (35 vs. Trip)
Feats
Skills
Languages Common, Darnassian (can't speak)
SQ Improved Grab (Ex), Shadow Blend (Su)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Damage Reduction (5/magic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Magic attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Improved Grab (Ex) If you hit with your bite, you can start a grapple.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
Nightsaber CR 2
Male Panther, Nightsaber
NN Medium Magical Beast
Init +2; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision; Perception +0
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DEFENSE
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AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13. . (+2 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 27 (3d10+9)
Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +1
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OFFENSE
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Spd 40 ft.
Melee Bite (Panther, Nightsaber) +7 (1d6+4/20/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Panther, Nightsaber) +7 x2 (1d4+4/20/x2) and
. . Rake x2 (Panther, Nightsaber) +7 x2 (1d4+4/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Pounce
--------------------
STATISTICS
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Str 19, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 19 (23 vs. Trip)
Feats
Skills Modifiers Shadowmeld
Languages Common, Darnassian (can't speak)
SQ Improved Grab (Ex)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Improved Grab (Ex) If you hit with your bite, you can start a grapple.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Shadowmeld (Su) A nightsaber cat is virtually invisible while under cover of darkness. This ability provides a +15 circumstance bonus on Stealth checks to hide while in shadows.
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
And zing I go away for another four months! buwahahahaha!
Has anyone done any more work on this using the Advanced Race Guide?
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Not sure it has been covered yet (I'm a big WoW fan myself, currently playing on a 3.3.5 server) but I wanted to get in on this action with a few suggestions.
1.) Consider dumping D&D magic altogether. It's very poor for emulating WoW magic, and Vancian casting does not really mesh well with Warcraft's Mana system (which predates WoW and is also present in WoW). Instead, use the psionics rules and create new powers as needed. Psionics already has a very mana-like feel, would be easy for people to pick up going from WoW to D&D, and supports "downcasting" to pace yourself (see spoiler).
Pre-WotLK, downcasting was a tactic that was favored by the smart and experienced (so much that some would hotkey different levels of the same spell on their toolbars). The reason for this was that it allowed you to more comfortably pace yourself. Don't use a fireball (rank 8) when fireball (rank 4) would suffice. In both PvP and PvE environments, smart spellcasters were improving their longevity in battle by using spell-power buffs and equipment and then using lower level spells to conserve on mana but still getting the job done (this could allow a healer to pace herself and avoid overhealing, or could allow a mage to avoid running out of mana in PvP situations).
In essence, it worked just like D&D psionics. In the psionic system, you can pace yourself in much the same way. You are capped as to how powerful a spell you can use, but you are not limited to the strongest spell you can use. If a 20th level psionic caster wants to use a lot of power to deal 20d6+20 fire damage, they can do that. But they could happily spend half that to deal 10d6+10 fire damage, or a quarter of that to deal 5d6+5 fire damage, or they could spend one twentieth of that to deal 1d6+1 fire damage. Allowing you to change your pacing between blowing your roll or having enough mana throughout the day.
In that vein, I would like to present a series of powers that you might consider if you go with the psionic system, more or less ripped from WoW itself.
===================================================================== ===
Elemental Bolt
Discipline Psychokinesis [see text]
Level Mage 1, Warlock 1
Display Auditory
Manifesting Time 1 standard action
Range Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft/level)
Effect Ray
Duration Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw Reflex or Willpartial; see text; Power Resistance Yes
Power Points 1When you manifest this power, you create a bolt of powerful elemental energy (arcane, cold, fire, or shadow) that streaks towards your target as a ranged touch attack. The bolt deals 1d6 damage and has additional effects depending on the chosen element.
Arcane A bolt of this type gets a +2 bonus on attack rolls and manifester level checks to overcome power resistance.
Cold A bolt of this type deals -1 damage per die (minimum 1 damage per die) and those hit by it must succeed on a Reflex save or have their movement speed halved for 1 round.
Fire A bolt of this type deals +1 damage per die and those hit by it suffer a 1 additional fire damage per die on the following round.
Shadow You deal 1d6 shadow damage and your target and the target must succeed on a Will save or be sickened for 1 round.This power's subtype is the same as the element chosen.
Augment For every additional power point you spend, this power's damage increases by 1 die (d6). For every 2 additional points spent, the power's save DC increases by 1.
Elemental Storm
Discipline Psychokinesis [see text]
Level Mage 3, Warlock 3
Display Visual, Auditory
Manifesting Time 1 standard action
Range Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. / level)
Area 20 ft. radius spread.
Targets Enemies and objects in the area.
Duration Concentration up to 1 round / level; see text
Saving Throw Reflex half or Fortitude half (object); see text; Power Resistance Yes (object)
Power Points 5You conjure a storm that rains elemental energies down on your foes. When you manifest this power, choose a type of energy (arcane, cold, fire, or shadow). Enemies and objects caught in the area when you manifest the power suffer 3d6 damage of the chosen energy's type, and are subject to the power again at the beginning of your turn as long as the power remains in effect. Enemies and objects who move out of the area are not harmed further by the power unless they return to the power's area.
Arcane Arcane lightning arcs through your enemies. You gain a +2 bonus on checks to overcome power resistance.
Cold A blizzard of sharp icicles and snow rain down on your enemies. A storm of this type deals +1 damage per die. Enemies who fail their saving throw become entangled for 1 round per 2 manifester levels. Fortitude halves this damage instead of Reflex.
Fire A rain of fire crashes guided firebolts down on your enemies. A storm of this type deals +1 damage per die. Enemies who fail their Reflex saving throw suffer 1 additional fire damage per die on the following round.
Shadow A cloud of darkness envelopes and destroys all within it. A storm of of this type sickens anyone damaged by it (even if their saving throw is successful).This power's subtype is the same as the element chosen.
Augment For every 2 additional power points spent, this power's damage increases by 1 die (d6) and the power's saving throw DC increases by 1.Corrution/Shadow Word Pain
Discipline Psychokinesis [Shadow]
Level Priest 1, Warlock 1
Manifesting Time 1 standard action
Range Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. / level)
Targets 1 creature
Duration 5 rounds; see text
Saving Throw Fortitude negates; see text; Power Resistance Yes
Power Points 1You curse your enemy with shadow, causing their body to rapidly decay. Each round until the power ends, the afflicted creature suffers 1d4 shadow damage for the duration of the power. A creature cannot be subject to more than one instance of this power per caster at a time.
Augment For every 2 additional power points you spend to augment this power its damage increases by 1 die and the power's saving throw DC increases by 1.
Life Tap
Discipline Psychometabolism [shadow]
Level Warlock 1
Manifesting Time 1 standard action
Range Personal
Target You
Power Points see textThis dangerous power represents the unending hunger for power that warlocks are known for. When manifesting this power the warlock consumes their own life force and converts it into power. This power inflicts 5 points of damage to the manifester and then restores 1 power point to the manifester (up to the manifester's maximum power points).
Effects that reduce the power point cost of powers have no effect on this power.
Augment You may increase the damage this power inflicts by 5 per manifester level. For every 5 points of additional damage, increase the amount of power points returned by 1.
========================================================================
I would then suggest to build classes similar to how D20 Modern does so, with talent trees. The result might look like this.
Warlock Talent Trees
Affliction Tree Affliction warlocks specialize in death and decay. They unlock the hidden mysteries of their art, and their curses and wilting powers can bring any foe to their knees and beyond.
Improved Corruption (Ex) Whenever the warlock's corruption/shadow word pain power deals damage, it deals an additional point of damage per die (3d4 becomes 3d4+3). A warlock may choose this talent up to 3 times. Its effects stack. A warlock must have corruption/shadow word pain as a warlock power known to select this talent.
Empowered Corruption (Ex) Whenever the warlock's corruption/shadow word pain power deals damage, the it deals an additional point of damage per 2 dice (4d4 becomes 4d4+2). This talent may be selected up to two times. Its effects stack. A warlock must be at least 8th level, have 3 affliction talents, and have corruption/shadow word pain as a warlock power known to select this talent.
Nightfall (Ex) Each time a warlock's shadow powers have a chance to cause the warlock to enter a shadow meditation state. Whenever the warlock deals damage with a power with the shadow subtype, there is a 5% chance that the dark channeling effect occurs. The effect lasts for 1 round. While the effect is active, the warlock may manifest elemental bolt (shadow) with a manifesting time of 1 swift action. A warlock may choose this talent up to 3 times. Its effect stack (the chance increases from 5% to 10% to 15%). A warlock must have the elemental bolt power as a warlock power known to select this talent.
Suppression (Ex) The warlock gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls, saving throw DCs, and checks to overcome power resistance for all powers she manifests with the shadow, curse, or disease subtypes. In addition, when augmenting a power with the shadow subtype, she reduces the amount of power points she expends on the augment by 1 (to a minimum of 0 additional power points). This talent may be taken up to three times. Its effects stack.
Fell Concentration (Ex) The warlock gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Concentration checks made to manifest any power with the shadow, curse, or disease subtypes. This talent may be taken up to three times. Its effects stack.
Improved Drain Soul (Ex) If the warlock defeats an enemy with the drain soul power (reduced to 0 or fewer hit points), she immediately regains a number of power points equal to half the amount she spent to manifest drain soul. This talent may be taken up to two times. Its effect stack (restoring up to 100% of the cost of drain soul). A warlock must have the drain soul power to select this talent.
Improved Life Tap (Ex) The warlock increases the power points regained from the life tap power by 1 per 5 hit points expended. This talent may be taken up to two times. Its effects stack.
Grim Reach (Ex) The warlock treats his manifester level as 5 higher when determining the range of warlock powers with the shadow, curse, or disease subtypes. This talent may be taken up to 2 times. Its effects stack.
Soul Syphon (Ex) When a warlock manifests drain life or drain soul, he increases the amount of damage dealt by +0.5 per die rounded down (so 2d4 becomes 2d4+1). This talent may be taken up to two times. Its effects stack (up to +1 per die).
Everlasting Affliction (Ex) The warlock increases the damage of his corruption/shadow word pain and unstable affliction powers by +0.5 per die (so 2d4 becomes 2d4+1), and each time a target currently affected by his corruption/shadow word pain is damaged by his drain soul, drain life, shadow bolt, and haunt powers there is a 35% chance that the duration of the corruption/shadow word pain power resets and begins again. This talent may be taken up to three times. Its effects stack (damage increases up to +1.5 per die and 100% chance to reset the duration of corruption/shadow word pain). A warlock must be at least 15th level to select this talent and have at least 10 affliction talents.
========================================================================
Doesn't that just look like fun? :3
Yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
Also, before anyone freaks out, yes I know that the warlock talents make some of those powers seem crazy at high levels (by my figures the damage per round of corruption fully specced is about 90/round for 5 rounds at about 19th level). However, it was written with a few critical considerations.
1.) It's before effects that would grant resistances to elemental damages (such as shadow resistance), which means other effects that would be written into the system would allow you to reduce the damage of these effects.
2.) It's assumed that other effects would be modeled more like WoW as well, which means healing would not suck, temporary HP (like priest bubbles or last stand) would be implemented throughout the game, and classes would have methods of clearing or dispelling certain abilities.
3.) The effect has to land (it's save negates) and it's a damage effect, and requires multiple rounds before it kills something, so it's intentionally nasty.
Depending on how close we desired to mimic the WoW feel in the RPG mechanics, we could make it so that equipment provided certain benefits (such as equipment or buffs that grant bonuses to saves vs certain subtypes). Part of what I was trying to capture in the above writeup was the play-aspect. One of my favorite things about WoW (particularly in PvP which is closest to D&D combat IMHO) is how you use your abilities together.
For example, if you were a 6th level Warlock using the above abilities, you might have specced Nightfall, so every time an enemy takes shadow damage from one of your spells you have a 15% chance to get a swift-action shadowbolt off. So every round you'd roll a d20 per enemy you have taking damage over time, and on an 18+ you'd get to get a quickened shadow bolt off that round.
Makes combats a little more dynamic, because generally focus-firing on enemies is the tactic of choice in most games. However in WoW, you DoT as many enemies as you can so they're all taking damage while your party is wearing down your enemy. Meanwhile, each time those enemies take damage, it has a chance to let you open a can of whupass (rewarding you for using your abilities cleverly).
Has anyone done any work on the races using the ARG? I downloaded it for Herolab but I still need to buy the book. It's much easier to learn from the book instead of in pieces from software.
Has anyone done any work on the races using the ARG? I downloaded it for Herolab but I still need to buy the book. It's much easier to learn from the book instead of in pieces from software.
Not I. I haven't got a copy of the ARG (not sure when or if I will yet).
Looking at some of the options through Hero Lab, I know I'm buying it. I can see it being something you would like too. It is chock full of options and really allows you to tweak or create just the race you want.
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Looking at some of the options through Hero Lab, I know I'm buying it. I can see it being something you would like too. It is chock full of options and really allows you to tweak or create just the race you want.
Cool, thanks for the recommendation. I just came into an extra $30 from doing a house call to solve someone's computer woes.
Not sure it has been covered yet (I'm a big WoW fan myself, currently playing on a 3.3.5 server) but I wanted to get in on this action with a few suggestions.
1.) Consider dumping D&D magic altogether. It's very poor for emulating WoW magic, and Vancian casting does not really mesh well with Warcraft's Mana system (which predates WoW and is also present in WoW). Instead, use the psionics rules and create new powers as needed. Psionics already has a very mana-like feel, would be easy for people to pick up going from WoW to D&D, and supports "downcasting" to pace yourself (see spoiler).
** spoiler omitted **...
Then again, Vancian magic fits very well with turn based mechanics and that's the framework you're operating with. When they went from D20 to OGL, the Warcraft paper and dice game went with a system like Monte Cook's you memorised a spell list and spent spell slots to power it.
You could save yourself a lot of effort, and just make the minor adaption from the OGL rules which were 3.5 based.
What you are describing is the god-awful spell-point system, which is horribly unbalanced.
What you describe can be done with the OGL psionics rules (same SRD by the way, and it's already been updated and rebalanced for Pathfinder and is available on the d20pfsrd.com here. It works better, is more balanced, easier to learn, fits the source material far better, and so forth.
Also, I don't understand what you mean by "fits very well with turn based mechanics". 3.5/PF psionics operates on the exact same system and works with the same turn based mechanics; so I have no idea what you mean by this statement.
Spell Points System. Also know as "flushing the last remnants of balance down the toilet". Poor sorcerers. In fact, here's the metagame analysis from that very system.
Metagame Analysis: Spell Points
The spell point system dramatically expands the versatility of a spellcaster. Since he’s no longer tied to using a specific number of spell slots, he can much more easily adapt to situations. In effect, spell points make all classes work more like the sorcerer, and make the sorcerer (or bard) work even more like the sorcerer. In general, spellcasters become more powerful—though they aren’t capable of casting any spell they couldn’t cast before, they are now capable of casting more high-level spells per day and more of whichever spells they need. If a 15th-level cleric needs to cast heal a dozen times during an adventure, he can do that (though not much else).
One balancing factor is the cost for casters to increase the damage dealt by their spells. This cost helps to maintain balance between spells of different level. If you didn’t have to pay more for a 9d6 lightning bolt than for a 5d6 lightning bolt (a 3rd-level spell costing 5 spell points), then the 9d6 lightning bolt would cost barely more than half as much as a 9d6 cone of cold (a 5th-level spell costing 9 spell points), even though both spells deal equal damage.
If you use this variant, consider adding other game elements that influence (or are influenced by) spell points. These might include magic items that grant (or cost) spell points, feats that grant bonus spell points (or make certain spells cost fewer spell points to cast), special abilities that drain spell points from casters, and so forth.
Psionics works more like sorcerers + wizards + WoW. You get a small but every growing pool of abilities that can be made to get better as you progress, and while you do not have the ability to switch out your abilities constantly as a wizard, you enjoy a measure of versatility because your old powers never become obsolete (so if you have a 3rd level fireball-like power, you could crank it up so that the save DC and damage is appropriate for 20th level as well).
The spell point system looks like someone casually flipped through the psionics rulebook, said "pfft, I don't need this" and threw it aside, took the point cost from the psionic powers, slapped them on magic spells, decided damage dealing spells were obviously the best powers, and so made you have to spend even more points to scale your damage powers (while not figuring the point values for the classes in a way to support this idea) while allowing you to steamroll encounters with non-damaging or side-effect damaging spells.
It would be a nightmare to try and balance everything around that horrible spell point system instead of using the far more stable and existing OGL rules for psionics.
Spell points and psionic power points are essentially the same thing. To be honest, when I get around to updating all my WoW books to Pathfinder, I won't be using spell points or psionics simply because I have found that it is a royal PITA for some people to have to calculate how many points they are going to use for something especially when there are several ways to spend the points on some powers.
Spell points and psionic power points are essentially the same thing. To be honest, when I get around to updating all my WoW books to Pathfinder, I won't be using spell points or psionics simply because I have found that it is a royal PITA for some people to have to calculate how many points they are going to use for something especially when there are several ways to spend the points on some powers.
They really aren't essentially the same thing. They have similarities, but it is akin to comparing a grey barn to a grey elephant. Sure, they're both big, and grey, but they are definitely not the same.
The impact on sorcerers for this conversion would be moot since you would not be running sorcerers anyway. I am of the strong opinion that what's in Azeroth should stay in Azeroth. Trying to mix WOW and Golarion would be rather ugly.
????????????????????
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I assume this has already come up.
Our group only played it a few times due to other campaigns, but I remember we liked it. It is still on the shelf in my game library on extended loan.
ciretose, I have all of those books but they aren't set up for the Pathfinder rule set.
Ashiel, spell points and power points are just a collection of points that you spend to take a base spell/power to increase it's effectiveness. I don't see any difference in the concept and I've used them both.
The WoW books already have Vancian casting as part of them so they will require little work to update. Besides, I'm not going for a 100% conversion of the online game to the tabletop game. I'm going for a general feel of the setting. That can be done without having to introduce a system that will bog down play. I'm already going to have to be working with the crafting rules so tinkers can have fun.
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ciretose, I have all of those books but they aren't set up for the Pathfinder rule set.
Ashiel, spell points and power points are just a collection of points that you spend to take a base spell/power to increase it's effectiveness. I don't see any difference in the concept and I've used them both.
I've used them both too. Which is why I would say definitely use psionics. In either case you need to do some conversions to maintain great balance. It's just that when we're talking spell points, you will produce a less balanced game. I mean, any system that says casting a 9d6 DC 14 fireball costs more than casting a full powered black tentacles is sick and wrong. At least with psionics they try to balance their abilities out.
Whether going from spell slots to spell points or psionics, there will need to be considerations made. If there are going to be considerations made, then psionics fits better. The psionics system feels more like Warcraft in both terms of Warcraft III and World of Warcraft. The mages in these settings tend to not carry around spellbooks, and operate more like sorcerers but with obvious focus on learning magic as opposed to simply being born with it. Pretty much screams psion by default.
In fact, you could probably take a core psion and emulate the mages from Warcraft with little to no adjustment thematically and avoid balance issues. Whereas both with wizards and sorcerers you will not find either to fit Warcraft very well, because wizards are all spellbooks and bat poop, and sorcerers have weird spell slot issues that could be patched with either the crappy spell-point system or the far better defined psionics system.
The WoW books already have Vancian casting as part of them so they will require little work to update. Besides, I'm not going for a 100% conversion of the online game to the tabletop game. I'm going for a general feel of the setting. That can be done without having to introduce a system that will bog down play. I'm already going to have to be working with the crafting rules so tinkers can have fun.
I actually have the Warcraft core books (the first printing of the setting and the monstrous manual). One of my biggest complaints with them core rulebook is that a lot of the stuff doesn't feel much like Warcraft. Some of it does, but since it's written as a mod to the 3.5 core, it uses spell slots which feels weird when every iteration of Warcraft I've seen uses mana. Likewise, some of the material was seemingly random and irrelevant to flavor (the gladiator prestige class for example just seemed there to make 2 hander characters sexier).
I suppose if you just want do a strait 3.x splat to PF splat update, then that's fine. But if we want to talk about actually creating a great and usable conversion of Warcraft source material to Pathfinder, we could set our sights a little higher and make something truly great. Because it's not the mechanics in those books that are great, it's the lore and world information, which is more or less indifferent to the mechanics (but some mechanics can represent the lore better).
Best sub for the CORE magic system I've found is the HypertextD20 system.
If you have the later WoW books then I would just do away with the sorcerer and use the system they have there which LazerX mentioned. It may not act like mana as much as you like but it still works and requires little updating. You could use the healer/arcanist classes more or less as is.
Frostsabers are not aberrations, nor underground dwellers. Darkvision makes no sense. Low-light pretty much does the job needed.WIP Frostsaber
Frostsaber CR 6
Male Panther, Frostsaber
NN Medium Magical Beast
Init +3; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision; Perception +0
No, but this stat bloc does say Magical Beasts, and those have Darkvision (60 feet).
I don't personally know whether Frostsabers are supposed to have more than animal intelligence. If so, then this fits well enough. If not, then they should probably be Animal type.
I actually have the Warcraft core books (the first printing of the setting and the monstrous manual). One of my biggest complaints with them core rulebook is that a lot of the stuff doesn't feel much like Warcraft. Some of it does, but since it's written as a mod to the 3.5 core, it uses spell slots which feels weird when every iteration of Warcraft I've seen uses mana. Likewise, some of the material was seemingly random and irrelevant to flavor (the gladiator prestige class for example just seemed there to make 2 hander characters sexier).Which books do you have?
WOW D20 was actually published in 2 separate editions not just printings.
The Second Edition uses the "World of Warcraft" name as opposed to "Warcraft" and went for OGL instead of D20 licenseing. It's far far more in tune with the actual game feel itself than the original edition was. They're very much like two separate games save that material of the first can be used in the second with a bit of tweaking. (there was even a conversion guide published)
Both editions, actually; though I was primarily speaking of the 1E book in my post.
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Warlock Preview
I don't like it.
It doesn't fit with Pathfinder. I think with Pathfinder's options, though, we can split the warlock up.
Warlock PreviewI don't like it.
It doesn't fit with Pathfinder. I think with Pathfinder's options, though, we can split the warlock up.
Could you elaborate?
I personaly kinda like it. It captures the flavor of wow well. However its kinda bland in the versitility department and lacks player options.
Thoughts about Arcanists.
Thought 1: Unless you want to convert the classes and paths from the WoW rpg, then I would probably just enforce specialisation.
Mage: Evocation
Necromancer: Necromancy or Necromancy (Undead)
Warlock: Conjuration (Infernal Binder)
Each of their opposed schools would be the other two (so a mage has necromancy and conjuration as opposition schools)
These would be the only arcanist classes and they would prepare individual spells and then spontaneously cast them with spell slots similar to the WoW rpg method.
Thought 2: If you would prefer to convert the arcanist and healer paths then I would treat them as sorcerers and convert each path into a bloodline. The main difference is that they would be able to prepare spells at the beginning of each day using their spells known.
Why not just play 4th edition?
How would 4E capture the feel of WoW better than Pathfinder?
I'm not sure if it would and it would make using the books you do have much more difficult since you would have to do that much more work converting to 4e.
With pathfinder you can more or less just drop stuff in with little to no changes (as in items, monsters, etc).
The only real work needs to be done with some classes and spells, some have parallels but some might need to be looked at.
How would 4E capture the feel of WoW better than Pathfinder?
I'm not sure. I never understood the 4E = WoW argument. It plays nothing like WoW, feels nothing like WoW, and none of its mechanics are like WoW. I loved WoW, but dropped 4E in a month of playing it. They are clearly two hugely different animals.
WoW has a lot that D&D/PF could walk away with in a positive way. Some of the mechanics are more entertaining (such as having abilities that work together), and there is a greater emphasis on teamwork in the mechanics themselves. Healing is good, and can even be proactive rather than reactive. There is an abundance of heal and damage over time effects. Martial characters have more dynamic abilities other than just preforming the same physical attacks over and over again. There is a lot that is good mechanically speaking from WoW that could be brought to tabletop RPGs, but none of it is in 4E from what I've seen.
I have played 4E and I have played plenty of other systems. I think that you can get a good feel for a campaign based more on the GM than on the system unless that system is specifically designed for that campaign (like Buffy or Serenity). 4E was never meant to be WoW even if it did use some elements (that are actually in many other games not just video or online games). I don't have a problem with 4E even if it's not my preferred system. I enjoyed the few games I did get to play.
I still can't pick up a copy of the ARG so I haven't had the opportunity to work on the races. Has anyone else tried this yet?
In my WoW campaign I use the MMO's characters, creatures, history, and locations dictate the flavor of the game. I don't try to adapt the mechanics of the MMO to my campaign because A) it is a long and tedious process of trial an error for balance for only one or two players to use and B) If I wanted to play the MMO with my friends we would just play the MMO.
If a player wants a destruction themed warlock he is going to have to play a wizard or sorcerer with some sort of specialty in demon-themed magics and make existing spells and mechanics work within the game. So far playing this way has worked great in my game and we still get the feel of WoW without having to mechanically changing the game.
In my WoW campaign I use the MMO's characters, creatures, history, and locations dictate the flavor of the game. I don't try to adapt the mechanics of the MMO to my campaign because A) it is a long and tedious process of trial an error for balance for only one or two players to use and B) If I wanted to play the MMO with my friends we would just play the MMO.
If a player wants a destruction themed warlock he is going to have to play a wizard or sorcerer with some sort of specialty in demon-themed magics and make existing spells and mechanics work within the game. So far playing this way has worked great in my game and we still get the feel of WoW without having to mechanically changing the game.
+1
I'm not looking for changes on the level that Ashiel has been working on. Those work great for her but I'm looking for something more akin to what you've been doing GokaiFire. There are some things, like the crafting and the races, that I want to emulate more.
I am very interested in seeing the complete warlock (and any other classes) that you're working on, Ashiel. Mana-based spell casting (power points) is very appealing to me, as are "talents."
I am very interested in seeing the complete warlock (and any other classes) that you're working on, Ashiel. Mana-based spell casting (power points) is very appealing to me, as are "talents."
I'll try to finish it up soon and post it. I haven't gotten to work on it much over the past several days due to being busy, and didn't have time to work on it this weekend due to a local MtG tournament (which I'm happy/proud to say I won *<(^.^)>* ), and then spending time with some friends.
I'll resume work on it soon. :)
Any new updates on that Warcraft conversion, Ashiel?
Did I say 4 months?
*sigh*
Nice to see the thread has been picked up and picked on.
Ashiel's psionics based magic system is quite awesome, IMO, but for the guys I play with I think we'll stick with the old magic system. They're more D&D/Pathfinder focused than WoW mechanics focused.
As to the Frostsaber, i converted it from the Alliance book from WhiteWolf's World of Warcraft (2nd Edition) game - magical creature.
I have the glory that is the Advanced Race book and may be looking to alter my Hero Lab WoW creations to better match the source material; but I got a lot of use out of the stuff posted here.
If I get anything of value done in the next couple of weeks - GenCon next week and I might be working on stuff there; just for fun - I'll post.