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Okay, I have been working on converting the d20 version of World of Warcraft over to Pathfinder. I have never played the computer game, so this is all based on what material I gleaned from the Sword and Sorcery Studios pen and paper version.
More details on everything you see can be found here.
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We will start with the orc, because they are one of the most mechanically complex races in the core rule book.
Orc Racial Traits
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence; Orcs are hardy and noble, but they lack the learning of other races.
Medium Size: Orcs recieve no special bonuses or penalties because of their size.
Normal Speed: Base speed for an orc is 30 feet.
Low-light Vision: Orcs can see twice as far in poor lighting than humans can.
Battle Rage: Orc's get the Power Attack feat as a racial bonus feat.
Forceful Personality: Orcs gin a +2 racial bonus to Handle Animal and Intimidate checks. Intimidate is always a class skill for an orc.
Weapon familiarity: Orcs are proficent with battleaxes, falchions, greataxes, and any weapon with the word orc in the name.
Languages: Orcs begin play speaking Common and Orcish, Orcs with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Giant, Goblin, Taur-ahe, and Undercommon.
Carefull with that Rage stuff. As it is it's plus 8 to Strength right from the start, it's a bit too much. I would say it's a rage that gives +2 Str and +2 Con only, and its stackable with Barbarian Rage.
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Next up, my personal favorite, the tauren.
Tauren Racial Traits
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity; Tauren are strong and in tune with the natural world, but their strength makes them slow to react.
Normal Speed: Base Speed for a Tauren is 30 feet.
Natural Weapons: Taurens have horns that they use as natural weapons. These horns inflict 1d8+their strength modifier damage.
Skilled Hunter: Taurens recieve a +2 racial bonus to Stealth and Survival checks.
Weapon Familiarity: Tauren are proficent with greatclubs, and halberds. Tauren greatclubs are often coarved with symbols of spiritual or tribal significance.
Languages: Tauren begin speaking Common and Taur-ahe, Taurens with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Goblin, Orcish, Sylvan, and Terran.
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Carefull with that Rage stuff. As it is it's plus 8 to Strength right from the start, it's a bit too much. I would say it's a rage that gives +2 Str and +2 Con only, and its stackable with Barbarian Rage.
I am confused with what you mean by "it's +8 to Strength right from the start." Rage, as written for the barbarian is only +4 to Strength and as the orc gets no Strength bonuses, I'm unsure how you are getting +8. Please explain.
This ability stacks with other Rage-like abilities, although the Constitution modifier only gets added once.
By what you said there it stacks with Rage, does it not? So a Barbarian Orc would get +8 Str and +4 Con while raging. Wasn't that the intent.
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This ability stacks with other Rage-like abilities, although the Constitution modifier only gets added once.By what you said there it stacks with Rage, does it not? So a Barbarian Orc would get +8 Str and +4 Con while raging. Wasn't that the intent.
The two only stack for purposes of duration, not for bonuses. I better edit that to make it clear.
EDIT: Wrote too slowly. So, you're saying that all Orcs get Rage, but Orc Barbarians basically get 2 extra rounds of rage?
I love WoW, and I was thinking conversion from the start. I think the way you are going is good, but that rage not so much.
Rage is a powerfull feature, it should not be given freely for a race. That's my thought at least.
If u need help in this endeavour, I'm up to it.
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Rage was one of the key features of the Orc race in the pencil and paper book from Sword and Sorcery. From what I have read it's one of the things that defines orcs. It's powerful, but no more powerful than a barbarian of any other race. It is certainly not something that is going to break the game if a paladin or a fighter or even a druid or cleric has it, as the last two couldn't really use their other class abilities while ragiing, nor could a rogue use sneak attack while raging. In fact, there are many instances where it could be of more harm then good for an orc pc. Imagine an orc wizard raging, it would not end pretty for the orc.
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I don't mean to be a dick or anything, but think about it this way:
goblins are weak, puny, sneaky mofoes. They fight underhandedly.
Hell, why not give them sneak attack for free? Sweet.....now I have a first level goblin fighter with sneak attack. Let's go flank some byoches!!!
I just think barbarian's rage, as a class ability, gets less respect than other class abilities. There's more of a tendancy to want to dole it out to define a race than other class abilities.
Hell, orcs are back woodsy types. Why not give them ranger weapon training?
I think giving orcs "power attack" or an archer feat instead might be a little easier from a "trying to avoid power creep" standpoint and still be in line with what you're trying to accomplish.
Rage was one of the key features of the Orc race in the pencil and paper book from Sword and Sorcery. From what I have read it's one of the things that defines orcs. It's powerful, but no more powerful than a barbarian of any other race. It is certainly not something that is going to break the game if a paladin or a fighter or even a druid or cleric has it, as the last two couldn't really use their other class abilities while ragiing, nor could a rogue use sneak attack while raging. In fact, there are many instances where it could be of more harm then good for an orc pc. Imagine an orc wizard raging, it would not end pretty for the orc.
I know it's an important feature of the Orc, historically for the game world it is. But you could go with a diferent kind of rage, not EXACTLY the same as the Barbarian.
As another poster said, it's an awesome feature for a fighter, it's something like a free level dip really. And a Wizard with transformation and such enhancement spells would benefit a great deal of rage ;)
Just an Idea mate, you don't need to do it if u think it's fair.
Actually, when I started writing down PFWOW some days ago I thought about giving all races something of an "ECL+1" and remove the character levels that exist but keep some of the abilities. Considering there is the undead which are very powerful on their own accord just because they are undead, I thought it would be a good idea to "enhance" all races to the same level.
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To round out the big three Horde races, Forsaken are on the back burner for now.
Jungle Troll Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence; Jungle trolls have quick bodies and wits, but their primitive lifestyle doesn't allow for intellectual stimulation.
Medium Size: Jungle trolls are medium creatures and get no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Base speed for a jungle troll is 30 feet.
Low-light Vision: Jungle Trolls can see twice as far as a human in dim light.
Acrobatic: Jungle trolls gain a +2 racial bonus to Athletic and Climb checks.
Rapid Healing: Jungle trolls gain twice as many hit points from resting as humans do. This ability only applies to non-magical healing from rest. Healing magic effects jungle trolls the same as any other rae.
Weapon Master: Jungle trolls are masters of thrown weapons and gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls when using such weapons.
Wilderness Lore: Jungle trolls gain a +2 racial bonus to Survival checks and Survival is always a class skill for a jungle troll.
Languges: Jungle Trolls begin play speaking Common and Giant. Jungle Trolls with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Goblin, Orcish, and Taur-ahe.
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I don't mean to be a dick or anything, but think about it this way:
goblins are weak, puny, sneaky mofoes. They fight underhandedly.
Hell, why not give them sneak attack for free? Sweet.....now I have a first level goblin fighter with sneak attack. Let's go flank some byoches!!!
I just think barbarian's rage, as a class ability, gets less respect than other class abilities. There's more of a tendancy to want to dole it out to define a race than other class abilities.
Hell, orcs are back woodsy types. Why not give them ranger weapon training?
I think giving orcs "power attack" or an archer feat instead might be a little easier from a "trying to avoid power creep" standpoint and still be in line with what you're trying to accomplish.
I hate it when Heathy is right.
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Okay, I'll give you one more.
Goblin Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength; Goblins are quick and they are natural salesmen, but they lack the physical prowess of other races.
Small Size: As small creatures, goblins gain a +1 bonus to AC, +1 bonus to attack rolls, +4 bonus to Sealth checks, and a -1 penalty to Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense.
Slow Speed: Base speed for a goblin is 20 feet.
Low-light Vision: Goblins can see twice as far in poor lighting conditions as a human can.
Barterer: Goblins gain a +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks.
Master Merchant: Goblins gain a +2 racial bonus to Appraise and Craft checks. In addition they gain a +2 bonus to craft any item made of adamantine, due to it's great commercial worth.
Weapon Familiarity: Goblins are proficent with hand crossbows, shortbows, and short swords.
Languges: Goblins begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Goblins with high Intelligence scores can learn any language except secret languages(like Druidic.)
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Ooh, very cool idea. I've always wondered what a WoW Warlock or Shaman or Paladin or Hunter would look like as a D&D class, but never bought the WoW conversion books (the EQ conversion was kinda 'eh' and turned me off those sorts of conversions).
The weird things that the same company did both conversions, but the WoW one was stellar and the EQ one was a soul sucking hole of darkness which should never be mentioned.
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Actually, while your point is valid, they are more the mirror universe version of gnomes in the WoW campaign world. In fact one of my favorite towns in the game is the Mirage Raceway. The goblins live on one side of town, the gnomes live on the other and the raceway runs through the middle. Gnomes and goblins constantly compete to see who can build the best, and least explosive, race car in a never ending competition.
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Yeah with Cataclysm, goblins were given to the Horde, and Worgen to the Alliance.
So Davy boy here has got a lot of work ahead of him, though its nice that pathfinder created no LA werewolves.
The worgen are going to be tough, since only monster stats exist for them. I'm also still debating how to do the Forsaken without them overpowering the game.
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I'm also still debating how to do the Forsaken without them overpowering the game.
Like most MMO 'undead,' they lack many undead resistances, and are affected just fine by poisons, diseases, critical hits, etc. It would fit the mechanics to just give them some smallish resistances or save bonuses against the sorts of attacks that 'real' undead are generally immune to.
Their ability to self-heal by feeding on the bodies of the dead is fairly balanced in the MMO, where anyone can self-heal by eating food, but in a standard D&D setting, will have to be limited to X hit points / day or something (perhaps replacing the normal living creatures ability to restore HD / level hit points overnight?).
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I....kinda don't buy a tauren with a +2 strength only. The thing's got 80 lb.s of neck muscle.
I kinda don't buy a jungle troll with no strength; the ones I googled looks like he could hold the front of a hummer up while his wife changed the tire.
I think they're both +4 to strength, but now we're delving into the wonderful world of bonuses to LA;
maybe this is all a personal deal, IDK.
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I....kinda don't buy a tauren with a +2 strength only. The thing's got 80 lb.s of neck muscle.
I kinda don't buy a jungle troll with no strength; the ones I googled looks like he could hold the front of a hummer up while his wife changed the tire.
I think they're both +4 to strength, but now we're delving into the wonderful world of bonuses to LA;
maybe this is all a personal deal, IDK.
In the Sword and Sorcery rules, they use racial class levels. Tauren can pick up another +2 to Strength using those. Trolls, however, don't get any racial strength bonuses.
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Here is a conversion I did earlier.
Magnataur
CR 16 (76,800 XP)
Usually CE Giant
Init: +0, Senses: Low Light Vision, Perception +13
AC 17, Touch 8, Flat Fppted 17 (-2 size, +9 natural)
hp: 243 (18d8+162), DR 5/-
Fort +19, Ref +14, Will +14
Cold resistance 5
Speed: 50 ft
Melee: Greatclub +22 (3d8+16)
Ranged: Harpoon +11 (3d8+11/19-20)
Space 15 ft, Reach 15 ft
Special Attacks: Frightful Presence (Save DC 18), Trample (1d8+16)
Str 32, Dex 10, Con 28, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +13, CMB +26, CMD 36
Feats: Cleave, Critical Focus, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Track
Skills: Craft (Weaponsmith) +10, Intimidate +11, Perception +13, Survival +22
Environment: Cold Mountains
Organization: Solitary
Treasure: Standard
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Ogay, well.....
looking at the "jungle troll" images, they look like mesomorphic He-Man action figures. However, so do all the human males, so I guess a more "realist" interpretation of a jungle troll would hypothetically look less like the Lou Ferigno with a Skeleton mask on that is Skeletor, and maybe a long, reedy, Abe Lincoln type (with Wicked Witch of the West nose and vulcan ears and some halloween vampire teeth).
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Here is a conversion I did earlier.
Magnataur
CR 16 (76,800 XP)
Usually CE Giant
Init: +0, Senses: Low Light Vision, Perception +13
AC 17, Touch 8, Flat Fppted 17 (-2 size, +9 natural)
hp: 243 (18d8+162), DR 5/-
Fort +19, Ref +14, Will +14
Cold resistance 5
Speed: 50 ft
Melee: Greatclub +22 (3d8+16)
Ranged: Harpoon +11 (3d8+11/19-20)
Space 15 ft, Reach 15 ft
Special Attacks: Frightful Presence (Save DC 18), Trample (1d8+16)
Str 32, Dex 10, Con 28, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +13, CMB +26, CMD 36
Feats: Cleave, Critical Focus, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Track
Skills: Craft (Weaponsmith) +10, Intimidate +11, Perception +13, Survival +22
Environment: Cold Mountains
Organization: Solitary
Treasure: Standard
CR's way too high. As is, a storm giant, which is cr 13, totally outclasses the magnataur. Ergo, I'd say cr 12 max.
Fun monster though.
Ogay, well.....
looking at the "jungle troll" images, they look like mesomorphic He-Man action figures. However, so do all the human males, so I guess a more "realist" interpretation of a jungle troll would hypothetically look less like the Lou Ferigno with a Skeleton mask on that is Skeletor, and maybe a long, reedy, Abe Lincoln type (with Wicked Witch of the West nose and vulcan ears and some halloween vampire teeth).
If you consider all the "in-game" images of races in WoW, it seems to me that the troll is more ectoporphic than meso. Also, and this is important, ALL the races are exaggerated in appearance. Suspension of disbelief requires me to imagine the Tauren, Troll etc. proportionally to actual humans, and then you have much more manageable forms to stat up.
Having said that, I can't imagine Trolls not having +2 strength from their stature, and Tauren should be a +LA race with +4 strength and Large size, or maybe "virtual large size" a la Goliath's from Races of Stone.
I realize +LA rules are on the fritz and not RAW at this time, but I personally can't live without them.
Cheers
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Alternately, just allow them to subsist on raw or rotting meat. Forsaken are living in every way that matters in D&D, and they sleep, eat, and so forth. They just happen to have unusual and rather grotesque diets at times.
Good point. Their feed ability doesn't do anything that 'eating food' doesn't normally do in WoW, so a straight conversion shouldn't have their corpse consumption benefit them anymore than eating rations does any other PC.
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Okay, more for you guys to play with.
Night Elf Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma; Night elves are quick and have keen senses, but they are stand ofish and aloof.
Medium Size: Night elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Base speed for a night elf is 30 feet.
Low-light Vision: Night elves can see twice as far in poor lighting conditions as humans can.
In Tune With Nature: +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (Nature) and Survival checks.
Shadowmeld: At night, or in low lighting conditions, the night elf gains a bonus to Stealth checks equal to their Wisdom bonus.
Weapon Familiarity: Night elves are proficent with glaives, scimitars, starknives, and any weapon with the word Elven in it.
Languages: Night Elves speak Common and Elven. Night elves with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Goblin, Orcish, or Sylvan.
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And another
Half-Ogre Racial Traits
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma; Half-ogres have the power, strong will, and spiritual insight of their progenators, but prefer to spend their time in solitary contemplation.
Medium Size: Hal;f-ogres have no special penalties or bonuses due to their size.
Normal Speed: Base speed for a half-ogre is 30 ft.
Low-light Vision: Half-ogres can see twice as far in pdim light as a human can.
Mixed Blood: Half-ogres count as both an ogre and an orc for the purpses of effects related to race.
Powerful Build: Becuase of their ancestry, half-ogres function in many ways as if they were one size catagory larger. They gain a +1 bonus to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense. They also count as Large creatures when determining whether special attacks, such as Improved Grab or Swallow Whole, can effect thim. However, they cannot use weapons for designed for Large creatures, as they find them awkward and unweildy to use.
Tough Skin: Half-ogres get a +1 racial bonus to Armor Class.
Languages: Half-ogres begin play speaking Common and Giant. Half-ogres with high Intelligence scores can choose from the folowing: Abyssal, Goblin, Orcish, and Taur-ahe.
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And one more.
Gnome Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength; Gnomes are quick and charming, but the lack the strength of larger races.
Small Size: Due to their size, gnomes get a +1 bonus to Armor Class, a +1 bonus to attack rolls, a +4 bonus to Stealth checks, and a -1 penalty to Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense.
Slow Speed: Base speed for gnomes is 20 ft.
Low-light Vision: Gnomes can see twice as far as human in poor lighting conditions.
Crafty: Gnomes gain a +2 racial bonus to all Craft checks.
Keen Senses: Gnomes get a +2 racial bonus to Perception checks.
Resilient: A gnome gets a +1 bonus to all saving throws.
Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes are proficient with all weapons with the word Gnomish in the name.
Languages: Gnomes speak Common an Gnome. Gnomes with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Elven, Dwarven, and Goblin.
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I will have some more stuff tomorrow, I was not feeling good today.
Hope ya feel better!
I'm eager to see your thoughts on some of the classes. I really enjoyed playing some of them (although, as MMOs go, it's really got an anemic class selection, compared to the 45 or so classes in Dark Ages of Camelot, or the 24 classes in EverQuest 2!).
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Generally, specs have more difference between them than most EQ or DAOC classes in similar roles did.I'm eager to see your thoughts on some of the classes. I really enjoyed playing some of them (although, as MMOs go, it's really got an anemic class selection, compared to the 45 or so classes in Dark Ages of Camelot, or the 24 classes in EverQuest 2!).
[tangent] While that's true for EQ2, in particular, DAoC was the MMO that started the trend of three different specs for each class, and an Earth Theurgist played very differently from an Air Theurgist (in my experience, having had 40+ examples of both) as did a Suppression Bonedancer vs. a Darkness Bonedancer, or a Death Servant Necromancer vs. a Deathsight Necromancer. On the other hand, some of those specs were pretty worthless on their own (Painworking Necro = unplayable), so yeah, not every one of the 45 classes had three *viable* options. [/tangent]
On-topic, it will be interesting to see how one could design a Priest 'chassis' that would accomodate both a Holy build versus a Shadow build. Would they be different sub-classes? Could they be worked up as Alternate Class Features of a more generic base 'Priest?' Would the class, somewhat like the Monk or Ranger (archery vs. TWF), have three different 'standard paths' to follow, differentiated by Feat / Class Ability choices at certain 'break point' levels?
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[tangent] While that's true for EQ2, in particular, DAoC was the MMO that started the trend of three different specs for each class, and an Earth Theurgist played very differently from an Air Theurgist (in my experience, having had 40+ examples of both) as did a Suppression Bonedancer vs. a Darkness Bonedancer, or a Death Servant Necromancer vs. a Deathsight Necromancer. On the other hand, some of those specs were pretty worthless on their own (Painworking Necro = unplayable), so yeah, not every one of the 45 classes had three *viable* options. [/tangent]Generally, specs have more difference between them than most EQ or DAOC classes in similar roles did.I'm eager to see your thoughts on some of the classes. I really enjoyed playing some of them (although, as MMOs go, it's really got an anemic class selection, compared to the 45 or so classes in Dark Ages of Camelot, or the 24 classes in EverQuest 2!).
And you think Blizzard did with WOW?
BAZING!
This was a problem with creating a bunch of options, and unfortunately not having enough time to flesh them out to be useful like everything else. Its going to continue to happen as long as RPG's try to boast more options by doing tech trees. Even in DIablo 2 where really the three tree system came into play people were talking about useless trees.
On-topic, it will be interesting to see how one could design a Priest 'chassis' that would accomodate both a Holy build versus a Shadow build. Would they be different sub-classes? Could they be worked up as Alternate Class Features of a more generic base 'Priest?' Would the class, somewhat like the Monk or Ranger (archery vs. TWF), have three different 'standard paths' to follow, differentiated by Feat / Class Ability choices at certain 'break point' levels?
You already have that to a certain extent with holy and unholy clerics.