Found this today on the WOTC forums. Gary M. Sarli (one of the developers of the Star Wars RPG SAGA edition) is proposing a new game system to be utilized in the mold of the Open Game License; a medium for third-party publishers to develop their own games/settings for any genre they choose, be that fantasy, horror, science fiction, etc.
The patronage project hopes to raise $10,000 USD by March 16th at 1259 AM EDT to build up this system. If anyone is interested, please check out the link below.
Edit: Fixed the link.
Found this today on the WOTC forums. Gary M. Sarli (one of the developers of the Star Wars RPG SAGA edition) is proposing a new game system to be utilized in the mold of the Open Game License; a medium for third-party publishers to develop their own games/settings for any genre they choosem be that fantasy, horror, science fiction, etc.
The patronage project hopes to raise $10,000 USD by March 16th at 1259 AM EDT to build up this system. If anyone is interested, please check out the link below.
I love the idea. I hate the logo.
Confound those little spaces! And it was a direct cut and paste too! Thanks for the save, pres man!
The pessimist in me looks at this as, a guy asking for money, so that he can finance his project and will allow people to discuss the content so he can scrounge it together and make all of the money on it.
Are there enough people who don't think d20/OGL has been saved yet willing to come up with the 10,000? I helped save it for less, with a bigger pay back. ;)
The pessimist in me looks at this as, a guy asking for money, so that he can finance his project and will allow people to discuss the content so he can scrounge it together and make all of the money on it.
Which is what you get when you spin it the other way.
What worries me is that 10 grand isn't enough to make a really good system.
Why? I am not understanding why people who wish to get involved.
I think Mojo Jojo hacked your account and wrote that sentence Masika.
(& BTW I am interested. It just scares me off when people start with a crappy logo. It's the designer in me.)
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Found this today on the WOTC forums. Gary M. Sarli (one of the developers of the Star Wars RPG SAGA edition) is proposing a new game system to be utilized in the mold of the Open Game License; a medium for third-party publishers to develop their own games/settings for any genre they choosem be that fantasy, horror, science fiction, etc.
The patronage project hopes to raise $10,000 USD by March 16th at 1259 AM EDT to build up this system. If anyone is interested, please check out the link below.
Ah. There it is. Thanks!
How those of you wondering how a project like this could get participants, just read this thread and see all the positive responses for another patronage project.
I don't understand the need for yet another d20 system...
Crafty Games, Green Ronin Publishing...do we need another generic d20 engine?
What worries me is that 10 grand isn't enough to make a really good system.
Um... bro.... hate to tell you this, but I've seen several very good systems out on the internet that were made in somebody's basement during their free time.
You don't need tons of money to make a good system.
You might need it to publish it, to publicly playtest it, to advertise it.
But to make it all you need is time, a heart for the work, and the mind to make it work.
Gee, I wonder why I've never heard of them, bro.
(My bold added to kyrt-rider's quote)
Anyway, I say 10k raises my eyebrows because that's at the most 2 months paid work as I see it, and he's talking about paying contributors. Perhaps he thinks he'll get more than 10k in patrons.
Last year I would have jumped at a chance to do this. But now I'm not so sure. It's not a question of the money; I'm currently an Open Design patron. It's more of value, or what am I getting out of yet another D20 system.
For my part, I'm more interested in Paizo doing something in this direction.
Can anyone post a little more about the guy doing this?
For my part, I'm more interested in Paizo doing something in this direction.Wait. You mean Paizo developing its own role-playing game system like FantasyCraft?
You gonna make me google that joela?
But yeah: Paizo developing its own RPG.
Heh. Same here. For a moment, I thought Kruelaid had tightened his goggles too much.
Can anyone post a little more about the guy doing this?
I'd be interested in the same.
I don't mean to disrespect the guy's contribution to the products he name-dropped, but he's not one of the names that I ever associated with Star Wars d20 or Star Wars Saga. I didn't have to crack the cover and dig THAT far for his name, but I haven't seen it on a cover.
Can anyone post a little more about the guy doing this?I'd be interested in the same.
I don't mean to disrespect the guy's contribution to the products he name-dropped, but he's not one of the names that I ever associated with Star Wars d20 or Star Wars Saga. I didn't have to crack the cover and dig THAT far for his name, but I haven't seen it on a cover.
Same here. Now Owen Stephens, on the other hand... That and I recognize Hyrum's and Stan!'s names ... is why I'm more inclined at this point what they could do with a Pathfinderized Modern/Future; throwing my hat there.
Good luck to this guy, nonetheless.
Even in this inital announcement, brief though it is, Sarli has demonstrated a need for an editor to clean up problems with tenses and tin-earred use of adjectives.
Good luck to him, nonetheless.
Ouch!
I can't say you're wrong, though.
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Gary Sarli responded over at rpg.net:
Hi, everyone!
I wanted to answer some of your questions. Apologies in advance for the long post, but there were a lot of very good inquiries on this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by devlin1
Why ten grand for this game, when there are so many great games already out there? What is this one going to do that's going to be so different or better than games that don't require a $10,000 down payment?
I mean, I love Star Wars Saga Edition, but....
Someone else already pointed it out, but $10K is actually a shoe-string budget compared to the $65K+ that Super Genius Games is hoping to raise for a Pathfinder-compatible upgrade to d20 Modern. That would presumably be a project of comparable scope and size, being a core rulebook, and it would even be designed by someone who worked on a lot of the same things I did -- he and I did the Star Wars RPG's Saga Edition Core Rulebook, Ultimate Adversaries, Starships of the Galaxy, and Scum & Villainy together (and I could swear there are some D&D projects we did together, too, but I can't recall which ones after all these years).
I'll be honest: I was a little afraid that by asking for only $10K, people wouldn't take the project seriously. Having worked with WotC extensively over the past decade, I have a good idea how much money goes into this process ... and even Super Genius Games's cost estimate, as high as it seems, is a lot less than WotC would spend up front on such a book.
To put the $10K in perspective: That's enough to pay me minimum wage for 40 hours a week -- before taxes and expenses (such as printing costs or hiring other freelancers) -- for the 8 months from March 15th to November 15th, at which point the book would be off to the printers. (And, speaking from experience, I know for a fact I'll be putting in more than 40 hours a week on this.)
Doing freelance work is a full-time job for me, and it is currently my only job. (Since being laid off in December 2008 -- thanks, recession! -- I don't have a "day job" that pays the bills so I can do freelance work on nights and weekends.) So, to commit to a project of this scope for such a long time, I would have to turn down freelance opportunities (which pay considerably better than minimum wage) during that time ... and that means that I literally wouldn't be able to pay the rent. (I'm not exaggerating at all on that point -- having been laid off over a year ago, what meager savings I had have long since been exhausted, so if I stop doing freelance work without replacing that income, I get to
live in my van.)
<snikt>
The rest of the post is a similar Q&A session. Link's above if interested in reading it.
Not sure how relations are between Gary and the guys over at SGG, but has anyone ever suggested about him throwing in his hat with SGG toward the PF Modern project? Sure, what he's asking is meager, but how far is it really going to reach out there beyond its initial scope? Heck, if it weren't for you, a lot of us would have been unaware of it. Maybe doing some freelancing work could open some venues for him given his unemployment situation rather than putting his eggs in this e20 basket. *shrug*
I'd be curious as to Owen and Hyrum's reaction.
All I got to say is, if I gave money to finance something like this, I would expect to get some kind of share in the company producing it. They could buy me out later, but tossing me a book and saying, "There you go, that's your share." Wouldn't cut it.
All I got to say is, if I gave money to finance something like this, I would expect to get some kind of share in the company producing it. They could buy me out later, but tossing me a book and saying, "There you go, that's your share." Wouldn't cut it.
That's why it's handy that the terms are presented up front, so you know that you don't get any of that.
If you participate, you participate as a patron, not a partner. That's why it's called patronage.
Not sure how relations are between Gary and the guys over at SGG, but has anyone ever suggested about him throwing in his hat with SGG toward the PF Modern project? Sure, what he's asking is meager, but how far is it really going to reach out there beyond its initial scope? Heck, if it weren't for you, a lot of us would have been unaware of it. Maybe doing some freelancing work could open some venues for him given his unemployment situation rather than putting his eggs in this e20 basket. *shrug*
I'd be curious as to Owen and Hyrum's reaction.
Gary posted in the thread about Pathfinder Modern. Basically, to summarize, he's not interested in producing a "compatible" system - he's looking at producing a completely standalone system that's similar to d20, and is built off of some of the d20 and SRD stuffs.
Gary posted in the thread about Pathfinder Modern. Basically, to summarize, he's not interested in producing a "compatible" system - he's looking at producing a completely standalone system that's similar to d20, and is built off of some of the d20 and SRD stuffs.
Yup. He posted there after I had mentioned my thoughts here. Thanks!
All I got to say is, if I gave money to finance something like this, I would expect to get some kind of share in the company producing it. They could buy me out later, but tossing me a book and saying, "There you go, that's your share." Wouldn't cut it.That's why it's handy that the terms are presented up front, so you know that you don't get any of that.
If you participate, you participate as a patron, not a partner. That's why it's called patronage.
Funny though, at the higher end, you get to participate more in the actual development. It seems more like the role of a partner than merely a patron. IMO of course.
Funny though, at the higher end, you get to participate more in the actual development. It seems more like the role of a partner than merely a patron. IMO of course.
Traditionally, the patron commissions the work to his/her specification.
Funny though, at the higher end, you get to participate more in the actual development. It seems more like the role of a partner than merely a patron. IMO of course.Traditionally, the patron commissions the work to his/her specification.
I think you are spliting the hair there a bit finely, but to each his own.
Funny though, at the higher end, you get to participate more in the actual development. It seems more like the role of a partner than merely a patron. IMO of course.All I got to say is, if I gave money to finance something like this, I would expect to get some kind of share in the company producing it. They could buy me out later, but tossing me a book and saying, "There you go, that's your share." Wouldn't cut it.That's why it's handy that the terms are presented up front, so you know that you don't get any of that.
If you participate, you participate as a patron, not a partner. That's why it's called patronage.
Just to clarify: If you're providing suggestions and input (e.g. "I'd like to see a game that does X and Y but not Z"), then that's traditional "patron" stuff. The biggest difference in the e20 Project is that you're providing this input very early in the process, helping to shape the core rulebook itself rather than a rule supplement or standalone adventure.
If, on the other hand, you actually write material for the book, you get paid for it and get a design credit, just like any other freelancer in the gaming business. (Freelancers typically don't expect to be made a partner and own a share of the company that hires them. :D )
If you have any other questions, you can check out the FAQ (which I've been adding to steadily) or join the discussions on our message boards, and I'll get an answer for you as soon as possible. :)
If, on the other hand, you actually write material for the book, you get paid for it and get a design credit, just like any other freelancer in the gaming business. (Freelancers typically don't expect to be made a partner and own a share of the company that hires them. :D )
True, but, to jump on pres man's side of the discussion, freelancers don't generally pay to get a writing spot on the projects they're working on.
If, on the other hand, you actually write material for the book, you get paid for it and get a design credit, just like any other freelancer in the gaming business. (Freelancers typically don't expect to be made a partner and own a share of the company that hires them. :D )True, but, to jump on pres man's side of the discussion, freelancers don't generally pay to get a writing spot on the projects they're working on.
Oh, that's absolutely true -- I don't want to give the impression that they're paying to be freelancers. Instead, they're paying to be patrons (i.e. for access, input, and copies of the book upon publication).
Then -- as a completely separate transaction -- they can earn that money back if they also want to write content for the book.
I might be wrong, but I've been under the impression that Wolfgang Baur's Open Design projects do the same thing, allowing patrons to contribute actual content to the final product. (I don't know off-hand if he actually pays them, but I'd imagine he does.)
This is actually one of the biggest reasons I wanted patrons in at the very beginning. I've met a lot of people on message boards who clearly have the ability to be talented game designers if only they could get their foot in the door. This project gives them a good chance to do just that -- they get a publication credit, they get an inside view of how the publication process works, and (most importantly) they can get an idea of whether they want to pursue it more seriously in the future. :)
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I might be wrong, but I've been under the impression that Wolfgang Baur's Open Design projects do the same thing, allowing patrons to contribute actual content to the final product. (I don't know off-hand if he actually pays them, but I'd imagine he does.)
All Patrons can contribute to the project. Senior Patrons can even pitch ideas and if they are chosen (by vote of th patrons), can design and write their pitch idea as part of the whole project.
No Patron is paid for his contribution.But, until the current projects, the finished projects were only available to the patrons and not openly distributed.
That is, only the patrons of "Halls of the Mountain King" have access to the PDF and POD.
As I see it, your project is different as it will also be freely available to non-patrons later on.
So being a patron and able to contribute is already cool. But bing paid to do so is the icing on the cake.
