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In 3.5e:
Enlarge person increases damage of melee and projectile weapons, but not thrown weapons.
Reduce person decreases damage of melee and projectile weapons, but not thrown weapons.
In PF:
Enlarge person increases damage of melee weapons, but not projectile or thrown weapons.
Reduce person decreases damage of melee and projectile weapons, but not thrown weapons.
Anyone know the logic behind the change?
I just came across this issue myself and it seems self-contradictory. Reduce person says "projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them" but there's no mention of this in enlarge person. Either the size of the weapon matters or it doesn't.
Zo
It would be nice to have reasons for their changes so you could figure out whether or not something was missed or if it was by design,
-James
Yeah, agreed. To me it reads like a sin of omission. Since enlarge person is a more prevalent spell I'm using that interpretation of missile weapons.
Zo
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It is similar with Righteous Might. In 3E, they increased ranged/thrown Weapons because the initial strength and size of the weapon made it hit harder (handled differently per spell). A bolder, for example, still builds up all the inertia until it leave your hand, and doesn't loose it.
A large bow still has the extra pull and force, even if the arrow gets smaller in flight.
Personally, I think it was a bad call, especially as it makes ranged spellcasters weaker without any compensation or alternative, and actively makes them worse with the new -2 Dex.
And now a bit of thread necromancy (sorry, but creating a new thread seemed worse)
I just came across this issue myself and it seems self-contradictory. Reduce person says "projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them" but there's no mention of this in enlarge person. Either the size of the weapon matters or it doesn't.
Zo
I couldn't have said it better.
It would be great to have an answer on that subject :)
I believe the spell states that when an item leaves the persons body it reverts back to it's original size. So it would not do the different dmg for size then.
Thanks for the answer but the problem is in the description of the spells, not in the rationalization behind. I could argue and justify that size does matter or not (yeah...I know...).
But the spells here clearly lack consistency.Oh well, without an official answer I guess it's a matter of choice. And as far as I'm concerned I'd choose that size doesn't change damages either way.
Anyone know the logic behind the change?
To keep the spell first level. It is already a strong spell for it's level. Paizo didn't want projectile weapon users gaining damage from the spell.
What is really amusing is the great big middle finger those two spells get from the Bestiary 2 Spriggan. For Enlarge and reduce, anything the person lets go of returns to normal size immediately, but for the size swapping Spriggan...
Weapons, armor, and other objects on the spriggan's person grow proportionally when he changes size (objects revert to normal size 1 round after a spriggan releases them).
I believe the spell states that when an item leaves the persons body it reverts back to it's original size. So it would not do the different dmg for size then.Thanks for the answer but the problem is in the description of the spells, not in the rationalization behind. I could argue and justify that size does matter or not (yeah...I know...).
But the spells here clearly lack consistency.
Oh well, without an official answer I guess it's a matter of choice. And as far as I'm concerned I'd choose that size doesn't change damages either way.
On the contrary they're very consistent: archers are out of luck no matter what they do :p
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I agree with the rule that if an item is no longer in contact with the target of the spell, that it immediately reverts to its normal size. That makes perfect sense, as the target of the spell is the character/creature, not the objects he is carrying which are only incidental.
For me, where these rules goes strange is when a creature is reduced (or enlarged), it can still move at it's original speed.
'This spell causes instant diminution of a humanoid creature, halving its height, length, and width and dividing its weight by 8.' and 'This spell doesn't change the target's speed.'
But it still moves the same speed? Really!?!? I guess that Halflings, Gnomes, and Dwarves have a slower base speed not because they are smaller and therefore have a shorter stride, but because they must be physically impaired somehow. And Giants have a faster base speed not because they are larger and have a greater stride, but because they have some hastening malformation.
Makes no sense to me. I'll fix this in my home game, but for PFS I guess I have to run it for what it is.
