Check out the entry about spell trigger items here in the PRD:
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Yar!
Spell trigger is defined (as quoted above) in the CoreRulebok on page 458.
It is also defined HERE as well as at the above link.
^_^
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So long as you can hit a DC 20 Use Magic Device check you can use any wand you have as well. Anybody can put ranks in UMD for a 50/50 chance at success with a wand 5 will do, and for only 2,500gp you can get an item made that gives you a +5 bonus to that check as well.
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So, by the definition of spell trigger, a delayed-casting class, such as paladin, can use a wand of CLW at 1st level without relying on UMD even though he does not YET have a caster level?
If that is true, then can a 1st level wizard use a wand of stoneskin without using UMD even though his caster level is too low to cast that spell
So, by the definition of spell trigger, a delayed-casting class, such as paladin, can use a wand of CLW at 1st level without relying on UMD even though he does not YET have a caster level?
If that is true, then can a 1st level wizard use a wand of stoneskin without using UMD even though his caster level is too low to cast that spell
Yes.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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So, by the definition of spell trigger, a delayed-casting class, such as paladin, can use a wand of CLW at 1st level without relying on UMD even though he does not YET have a caster level?
If that is true, then can a 1st level wizard use a wand of stoneskin without using UMD even though his caster level is too low to cast that spell
Yes, but I think wands are capped at...3rd level spells? So, no stoneskin wand. A popular trick though is to have a ranger use a clw wand before they gain their spells.
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Yes, but I think wands are capped at...3rd level spells? So, no stoneskin wand. A popular trick though is to have a ranger use a clw wand before they gain their spells.
From D20PFSRD:
A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower.
Most of the answers are well covered above: you don't need a caster level to use a wand, just to have it on your class spell list.
Thus a 10th level cleric cannot use a wand of magic missile, and a 10th level wizard cannot use a wand of cure light wounds. A wand of hold person is usable by either, regardless of who crafted it (2nd level for cleric, 3rd for wizard).
Also a cleric with the Fire domain could use a wand of fireball.
Most of the answers are well covered above: you don't need a caster level to use a wand, just to have it on your class spell list.
Thus a 10th level cleric cannot use a wand of magic missile, and a 10th level wizard cannot use a wand of cure light wounds. A wand of hold person is usable by either, regardless of who crafted it (2nd level for cleric, 3rd for wizard).
Also a cleric with the Fire domain could use a wand of fireball.
and a cleric 1/wizard 1 can use just about any wand in the game.
and a cleric 1/wizard 1 can use just about any wand in the game.Most of the answers are well covered above: you don't need a caster level to use a wand, just to have it on your class spell list.
Thus a 10th level cleric cannot use a wand of magic missile, and a 10th level wizard cannot use a wand of cure light wounds. A wand of hold person is usable by either, regardless of who crafted it (2nd level for cleric, 3rd for wizard).
Also a cleric with the Fire domain could use a wand of fireball.
and so could a cleric 1/wizard 1/x class of x level if you don't mind the exp penalty. which might be worth it lol
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Yes, but I think wands are capped at...3rd level spells? So, no stoneskin wand. A popular trick though is to have a ranger use a clw wand before they gain their spells.From D20PFSRD:
A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower.
What's the difference between a wand and a staff that has only one spell in it that would use up one charge per casting? Either in cost or in use? As I see it, you could have a wand with a spell up to 9th level -- ok so technically it may be called a staff, but it could be a staff sized for Yoda.
The main difference between a wand and staff of one spell is the feat needed to create the item.
Also note that the caster level of a wand is locked in, while if you use a staff you can use your own caster level and abilities for greater effect. And a staff might use any number of charges for its spell and can be recharged.
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Three questions:
Why is the DC for activating a wand set at a flat 20?
It's been that way since 3.0, but I've never seen an explanation.
Surely a wand of a level 4 spell should be harder to control than one with a level 1 spell, just like scrolls?
What happens when using a wand, when two or more criteria aren't met? Do you:-
a) roll once, and apply that result simultaneously to all target DCs?
b) roll separately to beat each DC in turn?
This matters when PCs have Action Points or other re-rolls, or can apply a stat/skill bonus x/day.
In some cases (eg low-level wands), it makes a missing pre-requisite a non-issue, eg, any roll to match a min casting stat (even for a cantrip) automatically beats the DC to use a wand by default.
I believe b) is the intent, but if so, needs spelling out.
The wording for scrolls specifies that a separate roll is required to emulate the minimum ability score. Why would this be different with wands?
What happened to caster level checks, to cast spells of levels higher than you can normally cast?
Under these rules, there is nothing stopping a level 1 PC using a scroll of a level 9 wizard spell. As long as he has Int 19 (easy enough, given the default PC generation), no roll appears to be required.
Is this intended?
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Three questions:
Why is the DC for activating a wand set at a flat 20?
It's been that way since 3.0, but I've never seen an explanation.
Because you only need to emulate having the spell on your classes spell list. With scrolls, you have to emulate having the spell AND having a higher enough caster level to cast the spell. A level 1 wizard can use a wand of ice storm. A level 1 wizard cannot use a scroll of ice storm.
Surely a wand of a level 4 spell should be harder to control than one with a level 1 spell, just like scrolls?
Nope, a wand casts the spell for you, you just have to trigger it. With a scroll, you actually have to read the entire spell, and "finish" casting it. That is the difference between spell trigger(wands and staves) and spell completion(scrolls).
What happens when using a wand, when two or more criteria aren't met? Do you:-a) roll once, and apply that result simultaneously to all target DCs?
b) roll separately to beat each DC in turn?
This matters when PCs have Action Points or other re-rolls, or can apply a stat/skill bonus x/day.
In some cases (eg low-level wands), it makes a missing pre-requisite a non-issue, eg, any roll to match a min casting stat (even for a cantrip) automatically beats the DC to use a wand by default.
I believe b) is the intent, but if so, needs spelling out.
The wording for scrolls specifies that a separate roll is required to emulate the minimum ability score. Why would this be different with wands?
The only requirement to use a wand is to have the spell on your classes spell list. You don't have to need the emulate a high enough caster level or casting stat.
What happened to caster level checks, to cast spells of levels higher than you can normally cast?
Under these rules, there is nothing stopping a level 1 PC using a scroll of a level 9 wizard spell. As long as he has Int 19 (easy enough, given the default PC generation), no roll appears to be required.
Is this intended?
Yes and no.
For you casting stat, you need to have 10 + spell level, no 10 + caster level.
To use a scroll, you have to be high enough level to actually cast the spell, so to use a fireball scroll, you must be at least a level 5 wizard. The scroll can be from a level 5 caster to a level 20 caster, it doesn't matter as long as you are high enough level to cast that spell.
If a level 9 wizard scribes a level 1 spell, then yes a level 1 wizard can use it, but you have to remember than the cost of a scroll is based on spell level times caster level, so that scroll will be 9 times more expensive than a level 1 scroll of the same spell. So the increased benefit comes at the cost of more money spent on the item.
What's the difference between a wand and a staff that has only one spell in it that would use up one charge per casting? Either in cost or in use? As I see it, you could have a wand with a spell up to 9th level -- ok so technically it may be called a staff, but it could be a staff sized for Yoda.Yes, but I think wands are capped at...3rd level spells? So, no stoneskin wand. A popular trick though is to have a ranger use a clw wand before they gain their spells.From D20PFSRD:
A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower.
In Pathfinder, Staves have 10 charges and can be recharged. Wands have 50 charges and cannot.
In Pathfinder, Staves have 10 charges and can be recharged. Wands have 50 charges and cannot.What's the difference between a wand and a staff that has only one spell in it that would use up one charge per casting? Either in cost or in use? As I see it, you could have a wand with a spell up to 9th level -- ok so technically it may be called a staff, but it could be a staff sized for Yoda.Yes, but I think wands are capped at...3rd level spells? So, no stoneskin wand. A popular trick though is to have a ranger use a clw wand before they gain their spells.From D20PFSRD:
A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower.
Also, wands are a fixed caster level. Staves use the staff caster level or the wielder's level whichever is higher.
In Pathfinder, Staves have 10 charges and can be recharged. Wands have 50 charges and cannot.
Also:
Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff.
Wands use just the caster level they were crafted with and the base DCs for effects from magic items (10 + spell level + minimum spellcasting modifier needed to cast the spell). Unlike staves, a wand can only have 4th level or lower spells.
Edit: ninja'd!
what if your using a word-caster then do they refer to their class list or their word list?
Wands are pretty awesome.
And with the UMD DC for activation a flat 20, easy to use as a non-caster. For anything beyond first level spells though they tend to be a rather significant investment. It had better be a spell you're going to cast all the time.
Greetings!
Here's almost everything you really need to know about how wands work.
And here's everything to know about using magic items that you normally shouldn't be able to.
Wands are spell-trigger items. That means that if you have that spell on your spell list, even if you couldn't normally cast the spell, you can easily cast it from a wand. So a wizard can use a wand of fireball even if they aren't high enough level to cast fireball, but they can't use a wand of cure light wounds normally because cure light wounds is not on the wizard's spell list.
A character who is trained in the Use Magic Device skill, however, can attempt to activate magic items they normally could not. Use Magic Device is a Charisma-based skill because it models activating magic items through sheer force of will. Using the skill essentially involves "convincing" the item that you're allowed to use it when you really aren't. The skill doesn't care whether you're a wizard, a cleric, a fighter, or a bard, so your casting stat doesn't even come into play.
That said, if that model of fooling magic devices doesn't suit you, a character with the Pragmatic Activator trait can use Intelligence instead of Charisma when attempting to activate an off-class wand.
Hope this helps!
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Greetings!
Here's almost everything you really need to know about how wands work.
And here's everything to know about using magic items that you normally shouldn't be able to.
Wands are spell-trigger items. That means that if you have that spell on your spell list, even if you couldn't normally cast the spell, you can easily cast it from a wand. So a wizard can use a wand of fireball even if they aren't high enough level to cast fireball, but they can't use a wand of cure light wounds normally because cure light wounds is not on the wizard's spell list.
A character who is trained in the Use Magic Device skill, however, can attempt to activate magic items they normally could not. Use Magic Device is a Charisma-based skill because it models activating magic items through sheer force of will. Using the skill essentially involves "convincing" the item that you're allowed to use it when you really aren't. The skill doesn't care whether you're a wizard, a cleric, a fighter, or a bard, so your casting stat doesn't even come into play.
That said, if that model of fooling magic devices doesn't suit you, a character with the Pragmatic Activator trait can use Intelligence instead of Charisma when attempting to activate an off-class wand.
Hope this helps!
But, does one have to identify the spell within a wand before they can use UMD on it, or can they just UMD it and see what happens?
I say you don't, because the only thing UMD really cares about is what the item is and if the player calls it right.
Ex. player finds a wand and knows it's a wand but not what spell's in it, he UMDs at DC 20. If he finds a wand but doesn't know it's a wand but thinks it's magical, it's a blind activate at DC 25. If he finds a flaming darkwood club but "thinks" it's a wand, he rolls UMD, I set the DC as 25 cause he's blindly activating, and if he rolls a 20 I tell him it fails and he can use that as a clue to suss out the answer.
My friend says that none of that is possible because, without explicitly ID'ing the spell inside with Spellcraft or some other means, the item cannot work, and that you cannot ever use activate blindly on wands because they posses an existing entry.
Ex. So, if I see someone use a curing wand on someone, but don't ID what cure spell is in it, I cannot and never will, be able to activate it until it is explicitly clear to my character whether it's a cure light wounds or a cure mod.
I've been in a long running argument w/a friend over this and am looking for clarity, if we've got any quotes from the devs too that would help a lot.
Well there is;
UMD
Activate Blindly: Some magic items are activated by special words, thoughts, or actions. You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you’re not and even if you don’t know it. You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check. That is, you must speak, wave the item around, or otherwise attempt to get it to activate. You get a +2 bonus on your Use Magic Device check if you’ve activated the item in question at least once before. If you fail by 9 or less, you can’t activate the device. If you fail by 10 or more, you suffer a mishap. A mishap means that magical energy gets released but doesn’t do what you wanted it to do. The default mishaps are that the item affects the wrong target or that uncontrolled magical energy is released, dealing 2d6 points of damage to you. This mishap is in addition to the chance for a mishap that you normally risk when you cast a spell from a scroll that you could not otherwise cast yourself.
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How Activate Blindly isn't that clear. I get why doc the grey friend thinks you need to know what spell is in the wand:
"You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check."
To have an idea of what "equivalent" action you need to take, you need to know approximately what is the right action.
On the other hand, it says: "You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when .... you don’t know it." If you have identified a wand with Detect magic and spellcraft, you know what is the activation word.
So it is a bit self-contradictory.
My interpretation is that:
Wands need to be identified and then the DC is 20;
Scrolls need to be identified and then the DC is25+spell level;
Unknown magic items that aren't Spell trigger or Spell completion can be activated blindly with a DC of 25.