Doctor Who: Series 5

[Nevynxxx]

flash_cxxi wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

flash_cxxi wrote:

Blink II: Revenge of the Angels looks set to be good next week, with (what appears to be a younger?) Riversong back.

Well, she would be, wouldn't she.

Hey... look at The Master. You never know! ;)

Naaa, the Master is a Time Lord, so he gets regenerations. As far as we know, River Song is human. Besides, they couldn't possibly have all that stuff about how she knows him, and he doesn't know her, she remembers him being "younger" then have her in another episode, and it *not* be earlier in her timeline. It would be wrong.

Would be fun if the reason he didn't know her last time, is that she was sent back in time by the weeping angels though. Now that would be getting a bit twistey terny timey wimey...

Sorry, watched Blink last night. :)

[Kthulhu]

Nevynxxx wrote:

Would be fun if the reason he didn't know her last time, is that she was sent back in time by the weeping angels though. Now that would be getting a bit twistey terny timey wimey...

Never say never. One of the reasons I like Moffat is that he is one of the few writers that actually uses the fact that the TARDIS can travel through time and space as more than just a method of transporting the Doctor and his companion to the BBEG of the week. And classic Who is just as guilty of this as nuWho. I can understand the reluctance to overuse the time-machine aspect of the show as it would quickly become deux ex machina, but at the very least it's a deux ex machine that is well-established within the show, as opposed to RTD's using the "Button of Instant Villain Defeat" nonsense several times, or having people chant "Doctor" to telepathically transform Dobby the House Elf into the Christ figure Doctor.

Ok, sorry, had to get the RTD vent out.

Anyhow...Amy doesn't remember Daleks. Odd, undoubtedly has something to do with the CRACKS OF DOOM. Speaking of the cracks, I wish they would be a bit more subtle. The glow is enough of an attention-grabber, you don't have to linger on the crack while playing extremely ominous music. I think they are probably connected to Amy, not the Doctor. After all, young Amy encountered the first crack in her bedroom wall before her first ever encounter with the Doctor.

[Calixymenthillian]

Kthulhu wrote:

Speaking of the cracks, I wish they would be a bit more subtle. The glow is enough of an attention-grabber, you don't have to linger on the crack while playing extremely ominous music.

I like that, it has a classic Doctor Who feel to it.

[Sharoth]

Well, if using a time machine to help one self out was good enough for Bill and Ted, it is good enough for the Doctor. He really needs to use the TARDIS in a more creative manner.

~GRINS~

[Charles Evans 25]

Well, I think that episode 4 settled the question of whether the angels could be back and as scary as before...

[ericthecleric]

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Well, I think that episode 4 settled the question of whether the angels could be back and as scary as before...

Is that code for meaning that you hid behind the sofa? :D

[Matthew Morris]

ericthecleric wrote:

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Well, I think that episode 4 settled the question of whether the angels could be back and as scary as before...

Is that code for meaning that you hid behind the sofa? :D

Actually that's only good for Daleks.

[seekerofshadowlight]

I liked it myself the angles are scary and it added to them a bit.Also it's bring another depth to river, something which I really hope they explore more.

[flash_cxxi]

Hopefully watching it tonight after the kids and wife are in bed. Can't wait. :)

[ericthecleric]

I've seen it now. Good episode- can't wait for part 2!

[flash_cxxi]

ericthecleric wrote:

I've seen it now. Good episode- can't wait for part 2!

Just finished watching. Very cool. Damn I didn't know it was a 2 parter and the end just snuck up on me. I was like holy crap it's over and there's more!

[Jeremy Mcgillan]

Loved it, damn saturday's gonna take way to long to get here.

[Nevynxxx]

Not sure I was too taken with this one. Some great one liners, and Amy trapped ... was a work of pure genius, but felt badly paced, and I noticed the

Spoiler:

Statues only having one head thing

before the Dr, which is disappointing.... Next week looks like it could be very cool though....

From the preview for next week:

Amy isn't allowed to open her eyes? My Mrs thinks this may be because she notices things, has done in every episode, and the Dr doesn't want her noticing things only for that info to be passed to the Angels.... Intriguing idea...

[Matthew Morris]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I liked it myself the angles are scary and it added to them a bit.Also it's bring another depth to river, something which I really hope they explore more.

Ack, he's bringing Geometry into this? (and I'm going to get the Godkids to watch when it comes on. I'm all for scaring my family)

[B_Wiklund]

Nevynxxx wrote:

Not sure I was too taken with this one. Some great one liners, and Amy trapped ... was a work of pure genius, but felt badly paced, and I noticed the ** spoiler omitted ** before the Dr, which is disappointing.... Next week looks like it could be very cool though....

** spoiler omitted **

Re the statues

Spoiler:

I was scratching my head (single) for most of the episode over that. How do they not realize? However, the Doctor does mention quickly the oversight was a result of a perception filter

[Matthew Morris]

B_Wiklund wrote:

Nevynxxx wrote:

Not sure I was too taken with this one. Some great one liners, and Amy trapped ... was a work of pure genius, but felt badly paced, and I noticed the ** spoiler omitted ** before the Dr, which is disappointing.... Next week looks like it could be very cool though....

** spoiler omitted **

Re the statues

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

And maybe that's Amilia's gift. Living 12 years beside a perception filter, now that she's seen through one, maybe they don't affect her as much anymore.

[Lilith]

Caught up with the latest. Definitely liking Matt Smith as the new Doctor, and love Amelia as his Companion. :D

[LazarX]

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:

The bit with the gun told me exactly how bad things were in that episode. After a long conversation with his sidekick about how he won't ever use one, a new planet appears in the sky. After being asked "isn't that a good thing? Those are your people, aren't they?" The Doctor's facial expression goes blank and he grabs the gun right out of the guy's hand.

Yep, the returning Time Lords were THAT bad.

Not only that it gives us further insight as to The Doctor's actions during the Time War. Apparantly his last action at the time was to put everyone in Time Lock, dooming all sides including his own people. It also explains much of his reticence in discussing it.

Spoiler:

Timothy Dalton as Rassilon. Upgrade from License to Kill, to License to Erase All Reality. :)

[Nevynxxx]

B_Wiklund wrote:

Re the statues

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

But usually we see what the Dr sees, and then there is a big reveal when he takes the perception filter out. Also, if Amy can see through the perception filter, she should have notice before he did....Curiouser and curiouser....

[LazarX]

Nevynxxx wrote:

[

Naaa, the Master is a Time Lord, so he gets regenerations.

Actually the Master has exhausted all of his natural regenerations long ago. He did hijack the body of Councilor Tremas of Traeken, shortly before that planet was wiped out of existence in "Logopolis". Since then he's become very adept at finding new means to secure ressurections for himself even after the Tenth Doctor had burned his body to ashes after his last death.

[LazarX]

Sharoth wrote:

Well, if using a time machine to help one self out was good enough for Bill and Ted, it is good enough for the Doctor. He really needs to use the TARDIS in a more creative manner.

~GRINS~

The Tenth Doctor in a moment of supreme arrogance declared himself the Timelord Victorious, exempt from all the Laws of Time. Moments later he was served a severe helping of humble pie.

The thing is that even Ten realised... that he doesn't need to aggrandise himself. The Tardis gives him a mean of travel, the ultimate mean of travel. All his other needs generally work out in the process, money, material concerns are not an issue for him, even though he recognises the dependence that other societies did. And he's very good at providing for whatever he needs at the moment. My favorite example is his wedding present for Donna Noble during the Long Goodbye in "The End of Time."

[Chris Mortika]

LazarX wrote:

Since then he's become very adept at finding new means to secure resurections for himself even after the Tenth Doctor had burned his body to ashes after his last death.

Oh, could we not mention that thing, please?

[Quandary]

OH... I finally saw the latest Season's Episode 1 & 2 (Prisoner Zero and Space Ship UK).
The new companion is cute, and I actually got into the new Doctor by the second episode.
I think I liked the Space Ship UK episode better, but that's just along with my general preference in Doctor Who episodes away from random run around adventure and towards paranoid conspiracies and more interesting character dilemmas or simply inventive settings, like the 'Infinite Commute' episode whatever that was called, or the Library with child AI and Vashta Nerata (?).
The new logo seems mostly cheesy, like a game show or video game or something, but I thought how they did the animation (with the DW letters rotating to reveal "the box") was cool.

Please everybody, don't reveal spoilers for future episodes (I guess the previews already showed Daleks, but no more). Personally, I think Daleks are a bit over-done - I'd rather see some more of the Face of Bo/ Captain Jack, and maybe some of those cat people in another setting.
Did I say the new companion is cute? :-)

[Kthulhu]

Quandary wrote:

Personally, I think Daleks are a bit over-done

The thing with the Daleks is that the estate of Terry Nation has basically threated the BBC that unless the Daleks are used at least once annually, they won't let the BBC have the rights to use them at all. So even thought the Daleks would really benefit from a few years off at this point, they'll be in series 6, and series 7, etc. Personally, I think the BBC should call the bluff, because without Doctor Who, the Daleks are rather pointless, and wouldn't make the Nation estate any money whatsoever.

[Loztastic]

From the descriptions of Perception filters they don't stop you seeing something, they stop you from paying it any attention

people worry about spoilers too much:

so, the doctor and everyone else could SEE the statues had one head, but didn't pay it any attention

[Kthulhu]

If they really wanted it to work, they would have painted all the statues hot pink with lime green polka-dots, and set up a Somebody Else's Problem Field.

[Quandary]

Kthulhu wrote:

The thing with the Daleks is that the estate of Terry Nation has basically threated the BBC that unless the Daleks are used at least once annually, they won't let the BBC have the rights to use them at all...

Ugh. That sounds so horribly... lame.

Maybe they'll try something a bit more tongue-in-cheek, like humans in the future wearing dalek t-shirts or something, but just being background eye candy for the most part. Even if these guys want to maximize their licencing from the Dalek image, over-playing it can work against them by shoving it in people's face too much. They don't have to do it EVERY season for people to recognize what they are, after all.

[Kthulhu]

Well, they did kind of skirt the issue in 2009, with the appearance in Waters of Mars fulfilling the "once annually" clause.

[LazarX]

Kthulhu wrote:

Quandary wrote:

Personally, I think Daleks are a bit over-done

The thing with the Daleks is that the estate of Terry Nation has basically threated the BBC that unless the Daleks are used at least once annually, they won't let the BBC have the rights to use them at all.

I don't understand. Why does Terry Nation's estate have special ownership rights in this matter?

[Matthew Morris]

LazarX wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

Quandary wrote:

Personally, I think Daleks are a bit over-done

The thing with the Daleks is that the estate of Terry Nation has basically threated the BBC that unless the Daleks are used at least once annually, they won't let the BBC have the rights to use them at all.

I don't understand. Why does Terry Nation's estate have special ownership rights in this matter?

I think it's some kind of IP thing. Nation created the Daleks and allowed BBC to use them. Kind of like the provisions on Wonder Woman being used a certain way lest they revert to the Moulton estate.

[Charles Evans 25]

BBC Proms:
Karen Gillian is scheduled to host the 'Doctor Who' proms concerts on the 24th July and the 25th July this summer.
24th: ticket prices £7-£35
25th: ticket prices £6/£12

These are in theory family friendly concerts and based on the 2008 one may have appearances by actual monsters/creatures from Doctor Who.

[Werthead]

Kthulhu wrote:

The thing with the Daleks is that the estate of Terry Nation has basically threated the BBC that unless the Daleks are used at least once annually, they won't let the BBC have the rights to use them at all. So even thought the Daleks would really benefit from a few years off at this point, they'll be in series 6, and series 7, etc. Personally, I think the BBC should call the bluff, because without Doctor Who, the Daleks are rather pointless, and wouldn't make the Nation estate any money whatsoever.

Someone at SFX Magazine quizzed Russell T. Davies on how the Dalek licensing works in response to comments on their forum. Apparently the Nation Estate were very dubious about the Daleks being used in DOCTOR WHO again when the series came back in 2005 and there was some speculation they might withold permission, but were eventually won over and are now much happier with the situation (they approved the new designs as well). The license is now renewed on a season-by-season basis, and theoretically the Daleks could now take a year or more off and come back later, with the BBC simply going a while between renewal of the licence.

This is what happened in the original series several times, with the Daleks absent from Seasons 5-8, 13-16, 18-20 and 22-24 with no real problems or dips in the show's popularity.

[Sharoth]

~wistles~ Daumn! I just got through watching the first two episodes of season 5. I am impressed.

[DM Wellard]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the obvious D&D joke in the last episode

Spoiler:

they had 'Bob the Cleric' come on guys..that's one off our oldest cliches

[Grey Lensman]

It's so old most of us have forgotten it, apparently.

[Michael Gonzalez]

Christopher Dudley wrote:

Xabulba wrote:

Christopher Dudley wrote:

flash_cxxi wrote:

The Doctor firing a gun... what is the world coming to!

In the BBC 8th Doctor books, the Doctor fires a gun at a human in Revolution Man. Yeah, I didn't like it then, either.

At least he didn't shoot it at a person, and for a person who hates guns he's a damm good shot.

Since I'm thinking about it, the 5th Doctor fired a flintlock pistol at a locked door in The Visitation.

The 5th Doctor was up aiming a gun in Earthshock when the Cybermen were overrunning the bridge of the freighter before Adric dies. Didn't actually fire it as the crew sealed the bridge in time. But he was desperate enough to grab and aim.

[Vic Wertz]

LazarX wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

Quandary wrote:

Personally, I think Daleks are a bit over-done

The thing with the Daleks is that the estate of Terry Nation has basically threated the BBC that unless the Daleks are used at least once annually, they won't let the BBC have the rights to use them at all.

I don't understand. Why does Terry Nation's estate have special ownership rights in this matter?

I'm not sure if it still works this way or not, but at least for the '60s, '70s, and '80s, characters that were created by contract writers who were not BBC employees were jointly owned by the BBC and the writers that created them, so neither party can do anything with them without the other party's approval, and the BBC usually has to pay royalties to the original creators when they do reuse them.

Generally, this covers a bazillion non-recurring characters, but occasionally, some writer-owned characters would end up in recurring roles. Among the best-known recurring characters that the BBC does not fully own are the Daleks, the Cybermen, K-9, Lethbridge-Stewart, and Nyssa.

(Characters that were created by BBC employees—usually the script editors or producers—are wholly owned by the BBC; this includes most of the companions and a lot of the recurring villains, like the Master.)

This doesn't extend to the character's actual design, which is kind of sad, especially in the case of the Daleks, where I think you can attribute a lot more of their appeal to designer Raymond Cusick than to writer Terry Nation. When the Daleks show up, Terry Nation's estate gets a check; Cusick's estate gets nothing.

[Charles Evans 25]

Going back to episode three, the dalek episode of this season was actually something of a letdown for me. The rather desperate and far-fetched scheme that had been instituted apparently on the off-chance that the Doctor might show up and say the exact words that the daleks needed was rather a disappointing plot twist, when the situation could have been developed in so many other, scarier, ways (attempts to change the history of the world and for the daleks to ingratiate their way into earth society/culture being top of my list).
Still, things are looking better with the weeping angels episodes, and it will be interesting to have different coloured daleks around again in future seasons.

[Vic Wertz]

Epic Meepo wrote:

DM Wellard wrote:

The Daleks have been restored to their original colours this is the way they should look.

Prior to the new series, Daleks only appeared in bright colors in two movies from the 1960's, neither of which features the Time Lord named Doctor Who. In no original series episode of Doctor Who were (non-leader) Daleks every brightly colored.

(For clarity, the movies *did* feature a character called "Dr. Who," but the term "Time Lord" hadn't even been invented yet.)

I suspect there's a key difference between Epic Meepo and DM Wellard that's primarily responsible for the different perspectives here.

If you grew up in the UK prior to 1983, you rarely had the opportunity to see old Doctor Who episodes, as they were almost never rerun, and hadn't yet been released on home video. On the other hand, the two Peter Cushing movies were regularly shown on TV, so viewers of a certain age would have been exposed to the colorful movie daleks more frequently than to their TV counterparts. And if you sought out materials like comic strips and toys, you were exposed to even more daleks with vivid color schemes.

On the other hand, if you grew up in the US during the same period, your local PBS station may have been running classic Doctor Who episodes five nights a week, so the TV daleks would turn up on your screens every few months, and the dalek stories shown the most in the US—"Genesis of the Daleks" and "Destiny of the Daleks"—featured the least colorful daleks in the history of the show. However, only the most devout US fans even knew that the two dalek movies even existed.

[Andrew Turner]

Vic Wertz wrote:

(For clarity, the movies *did* feature a character called "Dr. Who," but the term "Time Lord" hadn't even been invented yet.)

I suspect there's a key difference between Epic Meepo and DM Wellard that's primarily responsible for the different perspectives here.

If you grew up in the UK prior to 1983, you rarely had the opportunity to see old Doctor Who episodes, as they were almost never rerun, and hadn't yet been released on home video. On the other hand, the two Peter Cushing movies were regularly shown on TV, so viewers of a certain age would have been exposed to the colorful movie daleks more frequently than to their TV counterparts. And if you sought out materials like comic strips and toys, you were exposed to even more daleks with vivid color schemes.

On the other hand, if you grew up in the US during the same period, your local PBS station may have been running classic Doctor Who episodes five nights a week, so the TV daleks would turn up on your screens every few months, and the dalek stories shown the most in the US—"Genesis of the Daleks" and "Destiny of the Daleks"—featured the least colorful daleks in the history of the show. However, only the most devout US fans even knew that the two dalek movies even existed.

I think I have a Man-Crush.

[Sharoth]

Andrew Turner wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

(For clarity, the movies *did* feature a character called "Dr. Who," but the term "Time Lord" hadn't even been invented yet.)

I suspect there's a key difference between Epic Meepo and DM Wellard that's primarily responsible for the different perspectives here.

If you grew up in the UK prior to 1983, you rarely had the opportunity to see old Doctor Who episodes, as they were almost never rerun, and hadn't yet been released on home video. On the other hand, the two Peter Cushing movies were regularly shown on TV, so viewers of a certain age would have been exposed to the colorful movie daleks more frequently than to their TV counterparts. And if you sought out materials like comic strips and toys, you were exposed to even more daleks with vivid color schemes.

On the other hand, if you grew up in the US during the same period, your local PBS station may have been running classic Doctor Who episodes five nights a week, so the TV daleks would turn up on your screens every few months, and the dalek stories shown the most in the US—"Genesis of the Daleks" and "Destiny of the Daleks"—featured the least colorful daleks in the history of the show. However, only the most devout US fans even knew that the two dalek movies even existed.

I think I have a Man-Crush.

I could think of worse people to have a Man-Crush on. Just don't let Lisa know. Who knows what the WRATH OF LISA is like. It is best to not tempt fate.

[Epic Meepo]

Vic Wertz wrote:

(For clarity, the movies *did* feature a character called "Dr. Who," but the term "Time Lord" hadn't even been invented yet.)

I agree with your hypothesis about the influence of television series exposure determining one's Dalek color preference.

However, for clarity, the human inventor called "Dr. Who" in the technicolor movies and the alien renegade called "the Doctor" in the television series are not the same character.

Although the Doctor Who pilot did not refer to the Doctor as a Time Lord, it *did* refer to him as an alien. By contrast, the technicolor movies established that Dr. Who was a human from Earth. Thus, despite their similar names, these characters cannot be the same person. Accordingly, the alien character later identified as a Time Lord could not have appeared in the technicolor movies.

(However, the New Adventures novel, Head Games, did create a scenario in which both Dr. Who from the technicolor movies and the Doctor from the television series could coexist without contradicting each others' seemingly-contradictory canon. This novel posited that Dr. Who was a fictional version of the Doctor brought to life by the Land of Fiction that first appeared in the television episode, The Mind Robber.)

[Charles Evans 25]

Hmm. Those teeth in the trailers for episode 6 are reminding me a lot of the escaped alien's teeth from episode 1 of this season. Cutting the corners in the special effects department, or a more deliberate choice, I wonder?

After episode 4, episode 5 wasn't quite so high on the scare factor for me, but that could just be because I was watching a video recording rather than the live broadcast.

[Kthulhu]

Another thing that brings the Dr. Who movies into semi-canon is the theory that they were written by Ian Chesterton and Barbara Wright (the first companions after Susan) after their return to Earth.

[ericthecleric]

Karen Gillan is due to appear on The Graham Norton Show tomorrow.

[Charles Evans 25]

Upon reflection with regard to Episode 5:

Spoiler:

I have concluded that it lost a lot of pace and tension once they were in the forest - especially the part where Miss Pond was wandering around with her eyes shut. The fact that the angels were suddenly busy elsewhere and/or with other things may be partially to blame, too. Suddenly the pressure was completely gone. Things did perk up towards the end I felt, with the final confrontation between the angels and the Doctor in the episode, and I hope that the weeping angels will be back at some point, as I think that they still have a lot more mileage for development left in them (especially involving people trying to develop ways to 'fight' them).

[Epic Meepo]

Just watched Episode 5. I know the Doctor says...

Spoiler:

...the cracks in the Universe are the result of a giant explosion, but he's missing the big picture. The cracks are clearly the result of Stephen Moffat retconning Russel T. Davies out of existence. :p

[Kthulhu]

The big bad this series is

Spoiler:

everything RTD ever wrote.

[Lisa Stevens]

Sharoth wrote:

Andrew Turner wrote:

I think I have a Man-Crush.

I could think of worse people to have a Man-Crush on. Just don't let Lisa know. Who knows what the WRATH OF LISA is like. It is best to not tempt fate.

Exterminate! Exterminate! EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!

-Lisa

[Dalek-Ska]

EX-TERM-IN-ATE! O-BLIT-ER-ATE!