# Pricing math & non-standard permanency spell effects questions

### RPG Superstar™ 2010 General Discussion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I am probably breaking a rule here somewhere, but I will do it anyway (without posting my actual entry). I need some help and a clarification about the rules of permanent spells (affected by the 5th level arcane spell, permanency).

I have an item that is minimal in physical materials cost, but conveys the effects of an awaken spell, a permanent comprehend languages, and an owl's wisdom spell to a critter.

My first question is one of permanency beyond the removal of the item from the body slot: if I would like the Wisdom bonus because of owl's wisdom to remain intact after the removal of the item, is it possible to bend the rules of permanency to work in that manner, and if so what price adjustment & caster level might be best to utilize for this specific spell? If it is possible, what effect might this have on price, either for creation, or market value? My suggested levels for this would be caster level 9th and an additional 1,000 XP used for permanency. Is this logical, or simply intuitive (like I made it up)?

My next major hurdle to overcome is the math for market price and creation price... This could get ugly, folks. :P ;)

So far, I have minimal materials used (20 gp), and the following price incursions made:
Awaken = 100,000 gp = caster level 10 * spell level 5 * 2,000 gp for a continuous spell effect (DMG p. 285, table 7-33)
Permanent Comprehend Languages = 20,000 gp = CL 10 * spell 2 * 2,000 gp (same)
(Hopefully Permanent) Owl's Wisdom = 16,000 gp = +4 Wis squared * 1,000 gp (same table, using Ability bonus enhancement rules for base price)

Also included along with these factors is the rule for multiple effects (use the highest price times two), as well as additional creation costs for XP used (+5 gp * XP). I would assume this would include the XP for permanency effects - which means I need to answer the question about permanent Wisdom bonus first.

I always get confused by this part - which is why I typically stay away from it. I think I end up with a market value of 200,000 gp + XP costs because of the multiple ability rule and an assumed value of 100,000 gp because of the awaken spell cast by a 10th-level druid caster. Is this way off key?

This item changes the sentience and cognitive abilities of an animal, and that is why I would prefer the Wisdom bonus to be permanent even after the item is removed - anything else would be cruel and punishing after such a major shift in a creature's consciousness. Please help me understand the intricacies of pricing this out... Otherwise I am gonna have to drop out of the game last minute (*sobs*). Any input would be appreciated.

I am using the DMG by Wizards since I do not have the Pathfinder RPG publications. My apologies for being a broke gamer. Merry Christmas, all!
-will

That is way too much info about your item!

For your situation, I would abandon the formulae and price the item based on game impact at a specific level, using the expected wealth by level as a guideline and the cost of the other wonderous items.

You are using the wrong rules anyway - see The Pathfinder Reference Document for the correct rules.

Good luck.

I've flagged your post, because there's so much info in there that the judges would immediately know your item and identify you from it, which is against the rules.

That being said, some general responses to your question:

- It would probably have to be a one-shot item. Look at the Dread Trinket from a previous year of this contest.

- Bending the rules is what wondrous items do.

- Make it, price it, and then either test it in a quick game or have some friends assess its price. Compare it to what you might buy for the same price.

- As the poster before me said, use the Pathfinder rules (and format!) for wondrous item creation.

 Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

xidoraven wrote:
I am probably breaking a rule here somewhere...

Yes. You are.

xidoraven wrote:
...but I will do it anyway (without posting my actual entry).

That's too bad, because it's a very fast way to completely disqualify yourself. It's specifically mentioned in the rules.

Even without posting your actual entry, if you include enough detail (like what it can do, what spell effects it duplicates, pricing information, etc.), that's still enough information to identify your item with you. And, since the judges only want to review anonymously submitted items (i.e., they're not supposed to know who submitted what), you're not only breaking the rules of the contest, you're breaking them in a pretty MAJOR way.

Disappointed,
--Neil

 RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 7

Locked. Beyond the fact that you've posted more than enough to disqualify yourself, this isn't design-by-commitee. We want to see what you can do, not what you get people to do for you.