Dear Sirs, i would like to request your help. I am pretty new to the game as a gamemaster and have only played 3.5 before. We have started a new campaign playing the rise of the runelords Adventure Path on an epic setting (25 point buy). One of the players chose a Paladin and he expects some kind of help when developing the character rules wise. As i have never seen a paladin even as a nsc in all my 3.5 games and the Pathfinder Rules also changed the class rules a lot i am at somewhat of a loss here.
Our original thoughts (which might be flawed from the beginning) are as follows. Let me first talk about what the player character would like to play:
- A noble shining paladin - the good guy
- A damage dealer of some sort
- a male human
- wearing heavy armor and a shield
- A teamplayer, who is able to heal and provide other support
- he would also not like to push to many attributes in the negative section, if that can't be explained via a cool concept.
The Paladin will mostly be fighting frontline with a rangers and druids pet and a rogue.
We also though, that for tanking, the paladin will now need much Dex, as this would mostly be negated by the shield and the heavy armor none the less. So he used the ability points as follows:
STR 15 (+2 human)
DEX 11
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 16
Not the best, I would guess, but we also do not know how to do it better. The character is not supposed to be maxed out for a munchkin style of play, but i, and far more the player would be disappointed to see the build not working after playing it to level dunnowhat.
He took Power Attack as his First Level Feat.
We thought, that maxing out the Dodge or Combat Expertise tree would not work, as he wanted to hit hard and not get such a big benefit out of it. So he wanted to dive into the shield tree, but not to the complete end, because he will, with that ability point distribution not be able to take TWF. My main Problem is: The paladin needs STR, CON, CHA and DEX?! Wow...
Also... my plan somewhat ends here. I would not know what Feats to take, what attributes to give the ability score increases to and so on. I guess Extra Lay on Hands would be good for more swift healing, but what else? I have read through the paladin guide some fellow board meber wrote and was not any more enlightened. He certainly dows not want to use a bow. He wants to stand in the midst of battle and pound evildoers to pulp. Any other links or hints on how to build a paladin that works and does what he wants? Does he need TWF to skill the shield tree to it's max? Does he need more defensive options? If he needs more defensive, which ones?
I guess he will want the new Outflank Tactical Feat together with the rogue, but more help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance and here is hoping i chose the correct board...
TimDear Sirs, i would like to request you help. I am pretty new to the game as a gamemaster and have only played 3.5 before. We have started a new campaign playing the rise of the runelords Adventure Path on an epic setting (25 point buy). One of the players chose a Paladin and he expects some kind of help when developing the character rules wise. As i have never seen a paladin even as a nsc in all my 3.5 games and the Pathfinder Rules also changed the class rules a lot i am at somewhat of a loss here.
Our original thoughts (which might be flawed from the beginning) are as follows. Let me first talk about what the player character would like to play:
- A noble shining paladin - the good guy
- A damage dealer of some sort
- a male human
- wearing heavy armor and a shield
- A teamplayer, who is able to heal and provide other support
- he would also not like to push to many attributes in the negative section, if that can't be explained via a cool concept.
The Paladin will mostly be fighting frontline with a rangers and druids pet and a rogue.
We also though, that for tanking, the paladin will now need much Dex, as this would mostly be negated by the shield and the heavy armor none the less. So he used the ability points as follows:
STR 15 (+2 human)
DEX 11
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 16
Not the best, I would guess, but we also do not know how to do it better. The character is not supposed to be maxed out for a munchkin style of play, but i, and far more the player would be disappointed to see the build not working after playing it to level dunnowhat.
He took Power Attack as his First Level Feat.
We thought, that maxing out the Dodge or Combat Expertise tree would not work, as he wanted to hit hard and not get such a big benefit out of it. So he wanted to dive into the shield tree, but not to the complete end, because he will, with that ability point distribution not be able to take TWF. My main Problem is: The paladin needs STR, CON, CHA and DEX?! Wow...
Also... my plan somewhat ends here. I would not know what Feats to take, what attributes to give the ability score increases to and so on. I guess Extra Lay on Hands would be good for more swift healing, but what else? I have read through the paladin guide some fellow board meber wrote and was not any more enlightened. He certainly dows not want to use a bow. He wants to stand in the midst of battle and pound evildoers to pulp. Any other links or hints on how to build a paladin that works and does what he wants? Does he need TWF to skill the shield tree to it's max? Does he need more defensive options? If he needs more defensive, which ones?
I guess he will want the new Outflank Tactical Feat together with the rogue, but more help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance and here is hoping i chose the correct board...
Tim
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I would refer you *HERE* for a starting point in understanding choices you will have to make in the course of creating your paladin. This guide, while certainly not definitive or completely agreed upon, does present the basic options or styles of paladin character that work well in Pathfinder. Just remember, the Pathfinder paladin class in not your father's 1st or 2nd ed paladin, so you might be surprised at some of the choices. If none of these appeal, your player can always just go with what whatever makes them happiest and try to course adjust along the way.
I think that your ability scores are off for a 25pt buy. I count 21pts before adding in the +2 for human.
Also do not forget that if the PC is human he will get an extra feat at first level. You mentioned that he is taking Power Attack, but it's not clear if he chose a 2nd feat.
I think that your ability scores are off for a 25pt buy. I count 21pts before adding in the +2 for human.
Also do not forget that if the PC is human he will get an extra feat at first level. You mentioned that he is taking Power Attack, but it's not clear if he chose a 2nd feat.
I might be wrong on the actual score, as i do not have his character sheet here. I will provide the correct stats tomorrow. I guess his second feat was Improved Shield Bash.
I read the guide by Cryptic again, or lets say, the part, that was relevant, the "sword an board"-thing (took me a while to figure out he was talking about a shield - being new and a non native speaker makes it a little more complicate, i guess... ;)). So when he would take DEX 15, he could take TWF and with a Mithral Full Plate have both, Full Plate and the DEX Modifier? Or am I missing something here?
If skilling a Paladin this way, what feats would you choose?
Lets say he takes TWF and Power Attack on first Level, then double slice (3), Improved Shield Bash (5), Shield Slam (7), Cleave (9), Shield Master (11), Extra Lay on hands (13), Great Cleave (15), Vital Strike (17)...
Would something like that work, or not?
I read the guide by Cryptic again, or lets say, the part, that was relevant, the "sword an board"-thing (took me a while to figure out he was talking about a shield - being new and a non native speaker makes it a little more complicate, i guess... ;)). So when he would take DEX 15, he could take TWF and with a Mithral Full Plate have both, Full Plate and the DEX Modifier? Or am I missing something here?
If skilling a Paladin this way, what feats would you choose?
Lets say he takes TWF and Power Attack on first Level, then double slice (3), Improved Shield Bash (5), Shield Slam (7), Cleave (9), Shield Master (11), Extra Lay on hands (13), Great Cleave (15), Vital Strike (17)...
Would something like that work, or not?
I'm not much of an optimizer, and I do feel that much of this is up to your (or your players) personal preference. Others may not agree with what I think, but here are some ideas to consider.
By the flavor your player wants (heavy armor, sword and shield), I would reconsider the TWF route. In my opinion, if I'm going to be a front line fighter, I want the best chance to hit and to do a lot of damage. I'd consider taking the Bastard Sword Exotic Weapon Feat to increase my damage output. I may also consider Shield Focus (for the extra AC), Vital Strike (Your armor is slowing you down and this will help offset when you will only be able to get in one attack).
As for the Dex score, it would depend on what heavy armor the PC wants. If he is going to be in Full Plate by 3rd level (1/2 his total wealth) then a DEX higher than 12 isn't going to help much (+1 DEX Bonus is max). Again that is IF he wants to be that guy in heavy armor. If so, then he may not need to worry too much about having a high DEX. Put those points into STR, and bring even more damage to the table.
Okay, i guess the route without TWF and Double slice and shield master is more what he and also I would like. Also we wouldn't have to edit his stats (given that they are not plain wrong, which I will check).
You gave me a couple of feats to consider, when going this route. Would you still take shield bash, or ignore that completely? Bastard Sword sounds cool, Vital Strike too and shield focus as well. But he could have all of that combined with power attack on level 5. I am not asking for an optimized build more for a concept, what he could do from there and what to aim for.
Thanks for the comments so far, you guys really help us a lot.
You gave me a couple of feats to consider, when going this route. Would you still take shield bash, or ignore that completely? Bastard Sword sounds cool, Vital Strike too and shield focus as well. But he could have all of that combined with power attack on level 5. I am not asking for an optimized build more for a concept, what he could do from there and what to aim for.
Thanks for the comments so far, you guys really help us a lot.
You're welcome. I normally don't post a lot, but I was just helping build some PCs this weekend for our next AP, so it has been on my mind.
With that said, if you feel Shield Bash fits the flavor of your character then take it by all means. If I were building a paladin, I might skip it in favor of other feats, but that doesn't mean you are "wrong".
For example, my choice for feats to level five might be; Power Attack, Bastard Sword Proficiency, Shield Focus, Vital Strike, and Improved Initiative. However, some may feel that's a little boring and would appreciate throwing in a trick like Shield Bash now and then.
The point build is right, if what you actually meant is the +2 is on top of the 15 (Giving him a final strength of 17). I play a paladin myself (a highly non-standard falchion-wielding half-orc who focuses on his CHA over his STR). If there's one thing you don't need to worry a lot about, it's damage vs. Evil things. Smite Evil makes mincemeat of them.
Against other foes, his main damage will come from the +x value of his weapon and Power Attack, I imagine. Since he can pick up a weapon bond (in place of his mount if he so wishes), that also gives him an edge by being able to stick, say, flaming and such to an already-magic weapon as it becomes relevant. I can't speak about how effective that would be from experience, but it seems sound.
As for feats - Improved Shield Bash seems counter intuitive if you aren't going to pick up the feats further down the line. It basically helps using your shield as a weapon, and if you're attacking with it instead of your sword... I just don't think it's worth it mechanically at all, optimization or no.
Bastard Sword proficiency will add a point of damage to his average; If he wants a big honkin' sword, he can spend the feat for flavor and a relatively minor benefit. He isn't missing much if he takes a plain old longsword, though.
The other feats are pretty solid. Extra Lay On Hands might be worth taking if he finds himself being wailed on regularly or if there are a whole lotta fights.
One group of feats I always thought would be neat would be Dazzling Display - really strike the fear of your god into enemies. He's rolling against the HD + WIS mod of his enemies, so a boost beyond just his CHA would be in order - Intimidating Prowess (to add his STR to his Intimidate checks) and/or Skill Focus: (Intimidate) (which gives +6 at level 10!) could help with that.
The problem is this would get somewhat intensive in feats - Weapon Focus is required for Dazzling Display which will then want some boosts. If you're using Traits, he could pick one that gives him Intimidate as a class skill (or if there is no such thing, you could homebrew one flavored as you please). The less agreeable path is multiclassing Fighter (or another class with Intimidate on its list). This would get him the +3 class skill bonus to Intimidate and a bonus feat with which to work - three levels would net him two bonus feats and armor training. Of course, I hardly recommend this as it's just stepping too far off the Paladin path if you ask me.
In case you don't know what traits are, here's a link to the PFSRD. That replicates a Paizo PDF floating somewhere around the site, as well as some of their other open content.
Sorry if I've rambled too much or not been clear enough, but that Dazzling Display thing has been a favorite idea of mine for a while.
Oh great, i only now realised, that i double posted in the same post. Would be great if a mod could fix this. :(
Also it should read
"We also thought, that for tanking, the paladin will not need much Dex, as this would mostly be negated by the shield and the heavy armor none the less."
Sorry for the confusion.
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If there's one thing you don't need to worry a lot about, it's damage vs. Evil things. Smite Evil makes mincemeat of them...
As for feats - Improved Shield Bash seems counter intuitive if you aren't going to pick up the feats further down the line. It basically helps using your shield as a weapon, and if you're attacking with it instead of your sword... I just don't think it's worth it mechanically at all, optimization or no.
The other feats are pretty solid. Extra Lay On Hands might be worth taking if he finds himself being wailed on regularly or if there are a whole lotta fights.
One group of feats I always thought would be neat would be Dazzling Display - really strike the fear of your god into enemies. He's rolling against the HD + WIS mod of his enemies, so a boost beyond just his CHA would be in order - Intimidating Prowess (to add his STR to his Intimidate checks) and/or Skill Focus: (Intimidate) (which gives +6 at level 10!) could help with that.
The problem is this would get somewhat intensive in feats - Weapon Focus is required for Dazzling Display which will then want some boosts. If you're using Traits, he could pick one that...
A couple quick points and thanks for linking my guide.
Paladin smite is awesome and the central class feature. Undead, evil dragons, and evil outsiders...you know the tough monsters will tremble before you.
Improved Shield Bash isn't counter intuitive nor does it require taking feats further down the chain. Paladin damage is in large part about maximizing smite. You do that two main ways: getting lots of attacks and having high crit weapons (like your falchion). TWF is a good way to get additional attacks. For the shield user that will be the chain of feats you invest in. So then the choice is between TWF and TWF with a shield. The former does more damage (if and only if you have a high crit weapon in both hands...if you don't the damage increase is extremely small). But the TWF with shield gives two things 1) Scaling AC bonus that stacks with almost everything 2) An extra item slot because you enchant a shield and a weapon and as a shield. I think that the TWF with shield build is the best mix of offensive and defensive power for the paladin.
Once again on weapon choice: Paladin's really benefit from critical hits. Nobody really benefits from an increase die size (except maybe at really low level). So Falchions, Scimitars, and Kukris are your best weapon choices. Note: Sarenrae's favored weapon is the scimitar so it isn't even out of character.
Extra Lay on Hands is better if you fight fewer fights against harder opponents. It is a good in-combat heal and mediocre out of combat heal. Against lots of weaker opponents with many fights per day and space between combats...well that is another party member or your Cure Light wand's job.
I think Dazzling Display is a cool feat. I don't think it is an optimal feat.
Once again on weapon choice: Paladin's really benefit from critical hits. Nobody really benefits from an increase die size (except maybe at really low level). So Falchions, Scimitars, and Kukris are your best weapon choices.
I apologize for taking this thread in another direction, especially since the OP stated that he was not necessarily interested in optimizing.
However, I have to question this blanket statement. I really don’t understand why scimitars, and falchions are the best choice for paladins. I also don’t understand why one would be so dismissive of the bastard sword. As I said earlier, I’m not much of an optimizer, but this is the way I look at it.
Bastard Sword Proficiency
Con: It cost’s a feat. For Paladins that is a precious thing. A fighter has lots of feats to burn, but a paladin needs to be more cautious in his choices, and maybe there is another feat that would better fit one’s vision of their paladin.
Pro: 1d10 pts of damage with one hand which allows the paladin to have a shield and boost AC. In addition, the bastard sword provides a respectable threat range of 19-20.
As posted above, the extra die should be dismissed because the d10 merely gives an extra point on an average attack. The average on a bastard sword would be 5, while the longsword is 4, and the scimitar (for the purposes of this build) is 3.
I can see how one my be lead to believe that the scimitar is better because one is going to have the opportunity for more critical hits.
However, do I really want to trade lower damage for the chance of doubling my damage in a few instances?
Here is my comparison;
In 20 successful hits, a bastard sword is going to threaten a critical 2 out of 20 times. 18 hits are going to be at an average of 5 pts of damage. For the sake of illustration, lets say the we confirm the critical every time.
18 normal average hits = 90 pts of damage
2 Criticals = 20 pts of damage
Total damage = 110
In 20 successful hits, a scimitar is going to threaten 3 out of 20 times. 17 hits are going to be at an average of 3 pts of damage. Again, I’ll assume that every critical is confirmed which should be in the scimitar’s favor.
17 normal hits = 51
3 Criticals = 18 pts of damage
Total damage = 69
Now let’s throw Keen Edge or Improved Critical into the mix, which is viable for both weapons.
A bastard sword now has a threat range of 17 to 20, which means it will threaten a critical 4 times in 20. The average damage output should be as follows over 20 hits.
16 normal hits = 80 pts of damage
4 Criticals = 40 pts of damage
Total damage = 120
A scimitar’s threat range is now expanded to 15 to 20, which is a whopping 6 in 20 chances to threaten a critical. However . .
14 Normal hits = 42 pts of damage
6 Criticals = 36 pts of damage
Total Damage = 78pts
If I were optimizing this build, I’d think I’d want to go for the one that will give me the most daily damage output on a reliable basis. I certainly don’t see why a weapon with higher damage die is outright dismissed. I’m truly not attacking, and maybe I’m not seeing the logic. As I mentioned earlier, I’m not an optimizer, so I may be missing something here.
Here is my comparison;
If you redo your comparison assuming 4 things:
1) Paladins will have a Str bonus
2) Paladins use smite evil
3) Weapons occassionally get enhancement bonuses
4) Other flat bonuses - such as power attack, are often used
Then you will see why the math changes when a Paladin is using the weapon.
Yes - the base weapon damage is higher on the Bastard Sword (or even longsword) - but Paladins are all about the BONUS damage not the base damage (which you completely omit in your comparison), and bonus damage benefits more from the high crit weapon.
Really - for a powerhouse like the Paladin - the base weapon damage is a tiny portion of their actual damage.
I really don’t understand why scimitars, and falchions are the best choice for paladins.
Hopefully that answers your question. It's not about the base damage die - it's about the flat damage bonuses.
For damage bonuses that don't multiply with a critical (like sneak attack) - crit range becomes far less important - but with a Paladin - it's all going to multiply - which is pretty huge.
Yes - the base weapon damage is higher on the Bastard Sword (or even longsword) - but Paladins are all about the BONUS damage not the base damage (which you completely omit in your comparison), and bonus damage benefits more from the high crit weapon.
Really - for a powerhouse like the Paladin - the base weapon damage is a tiny portion of their actual damage.
I really don’t understand why scimitars, and falchions are the best choice for paladins.Hopefully that answers your question. It's not about the base damage die - it's about the flat damage bonuses.
Thanks. I guess part of my assumption was wrong . . . that everything that scales with a scimitar would also scale with a bastard sword. I'm still not totally convinced that betting on the maximization of a critical that may only happen 15% of the time (25% with keen/Improved Critical) is the best option. Yes 25% criticals are great, but ignoring 75% of your successful hits seems out of whack to me.
However, that doesn't mean that I won't come around. :)
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I disagree with that whole assumption; it assumes the Paladin is always smiting. Smiting is a very small portion of his day-to-day activity, so raw damage output is generally the way to go. And from this perspective, no paladin build should ever have the time for improved critical, nor should it be adding non-damage keywords to their weapon (like keen).
It really depends on where you want to go; for the BBEG killer, assume smite and high crit ranges; for day to day operations and lower levels, you're better off keeping your overall damage as high as possible.
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I posted this elsewhere. The best weapon depends on a couple factors (notably, access to Keen or Improved Crit and Bless Weapon, whether you are smiting and equipment changes to your damage modifier). Even if you take nothing that augments crits, the high crit range is better after level 10.
Basically the static bonus to damage decreases in relative value as your other damage bonuses increases (PA, strength, smite, enhancement, etc). As those increase, the changes in crit chance matter more as it is crit is a multiplier and on a crit those increases get expanded.
In that thread, I explained why Improved Crit was a good feat to take ASAP unless you have a low crit weapon (20/x2).
Additionally, unless you play solely at low level, high crit range weapons are just better. I would go bigger damage die over bigger crit range until somewhere between 5th and 10th level. The level at which the high crit weapon becomes better is when at least ONE of the following occurs: 1) You either have crafted or buy a keen weapon (which happens to be the best investment you can make in your weapon before you do either of the next two options) OR 2) You take Improved Critical OR 3) You regularly keep Bless Weapon up for fights of any importance (might I suggest that Pearl of Power I is the most efficient damage increase for a paladin at low level and the item stays valuable for you at every level).
At level one, you do 8% average damage better with a Greatsword over a Falchion smiting or not. So at level 1, Choose the higher base damage weapon.
By level 5, no buffs, things have gotten somewhat better, the Greatsword is still 8% better when not smiting. The Falchion is now only 4% worse when smiting. Still carry that greatsword.
At 5th level, when you use weapon bond, using the best strategy for either side, Flaming for the Greatsword and Keen for the Falchion: Not smiting, the Falchion is 2% better except against very high AC foes (25 or so is the breakpoint) and when smiting the Falchion is 7% better once again except against ACs of around 25 or higher.
At level 10, no buffs or support feats, the Greatsword is 2% better when not smiting and the Falchion is 2% when smiting. That is negligible it amounts to less than .5 average damage either way.
Since Improved Crit is a good feat for either, I give both of them the feat for the next tests. The Paladin does 4% better damage with the Falchion not smiting and 8% better when smiting.
With Bless Weapon (auto-confirm) at level 10 with Improved Crit, falchion is 10-17% better when not smiting and 10-20% better when smiting.
10-17% better damage for 25g and a funny shaped weapon is a darn good trade.
As a rule of thumb, you can calculate the expected damage taking into acount the critical threat and multiplier of a weapon by: multiplying the size of the threat range by 0.05 by the critical multiplier -1 and addind one to the product, finally multiply the obtained index by the multipliable damage of the weapon.
Now lets follow your example with a 10th paladin with a +2 sword and a strenght of 18:
Bonus damage 1H = 22 (+4 STR; +10 Smite; +6 Power Attack; +2 weapon)
-Scimithar(3*.05+1): (3.5+22)*1.15 = 29.325 (19.175)*
-Longsword (2*.05+1): (4.5+22)*1.10 = 29.15 (18.15)*
-Bastard Sword (2*.05+1): (5.5+22)*1.10 = 30.25 (20.14)*
-Keen Scimithar(6*.05+1): (3.5+22)*1.30 = 33.15 (20.15)*
-Keen Longsword (4*.05+1): (5.5+22)*1.20 = 31.8 (19.8)*
-Keen Bastard Sword (4*.05+1): (5.5+22)*1.20 = 33 (21)*
*Without Simte evil
Bonus damage 2H = 27 (+6 STR; +10 Smite; +9 Power Attack; +2 weapon)
-Falchion(3*.05+1): (5+27)*1.15 = 36.8 (25.65)*
-Greatsword (2*.05+1): (7+27)*1.10 = 37.4 (26.3)*
-Scythe (1*.05*3+1): (5+27)*1.15 = 36.8 (25.65)*
-Keen Falchion(6*.05+1): (5+27)*1.30 = 41.6 (28.6)*
-Keen Greatsword (4*.05+1): (7+27)*1.20 = 40.8 (28.8)*
-Keen Scythe (2*.05*3+1): (5+27)*1.30 = 41.6 (28.6)*
*Without Simte Evil
As you can see, the bigger the bonuses, the more useful the higher threat weapon, but not by much. However at very high levels the scimithar outstand. Take into acount that the bastrds sword eats up a feat for a pathetic damage increase.
I put thescythe just to show that its mathematically equal falchion in expected damage terms, however it gives extra options and the falchion doesn't, however I wouldn't recomend it because its to un reliable.
Humbly,
Yawar
Dang, I may have been bit by the optimization bug. I spent most of my lunch hour working out scenarios, but now I have to head out for a trip.
Thalin - I agree that one needs to plan for non-smiting. There's no arguement that smiting makes the paladin shine, but he still needs to kick the crap out of villains more than a few times a day. However, I may not agree that Improved Critical shouldn't be sought.
John - That makes more sense. I'll share some stuff when I get back. It seems the bonuses make the difference more of a wash when I played around with it. It hardly seemed to be "the best" situation. I should probably add that I do play more campaigns that tend to end around 12th, so planning beyond that is rarely a consideration.
Yawar - No offense, but you lost me in your first sentence. I felt like I needed to brush up on my calculus to understand it. Then I let the feeling pass. I definately don't agree that the bastard sword cost is "pathetic" by any means.
Yawar - No offense, but you lost me in your first sentence. I felt like I needed to brush up on my calculus to understand it. Then I let the feeling pass. I definately don't agree that the bastard sword cost is "pathetic" by any means.
The cost isn't ¨pathetic¨ the damage boost is. The bastard sword nets 1 point of damage over the scimithar when not smiting and it costs a feat.
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John - That makes more sense. I'll share some stuff when I get back. It seems the bonuses make the difference more of a wash when I played around with it. It hardly seemed to be "the best" situation. I should probably add that I do play more campaigns that tend to end around 12th, so planning beyond that is rarely a consideration.
If you end at 12, I would choose early to focus on crits of not, and optimize with that end. You get the most damage out of crits, but you have to work at it especially levels 5-10.
Also, a lot of focus is going to get on smiting because that is really the paladin's place to shine. Paladin's don't get as many mook killing tools, even less than the fighter probably. Really your job is often going to be survival (and LoH is good for that) and killing BBEGs and enemy spellcasters, the latter you can do probably better than most with some builds.
I also think bastard sword isn't worth the feat. One extra damage is not worth it. A lot of optimizers despise Weapon Specialization and this is only half as good.
Well, 2 points of average damage over a scimitar (but it loses 1 mark of crit range), 1 point of average damage over a longsword.The cost isn't ¨pathetic¨ the damage boost is. The bastard sword nets 1 point of damage over the scimithar when not smiting and it costs a feat.Yawar - No offense, but you lost me in your first sentence. I felt like I needed to brush up on my calculus to understand it. Then I let the feeling pass. I definately don't agree that the bastard sword cost is "pathetic" by any means.
No, once you add the damage bonuses and factor the greater critical range of the scimithar and falchion start being a better options.
The advantage of having a higher critical range is that it will 'scale' as you gain damage bonuses. A +2 to damage won't 'scale' over the 20 levels of the game.
Humbly,
Yawar