Does an alchemist need to purchase vials for his bombs/mutegens/extracts? If he does, that seems like a bid penalty disguised as a little penalty. No other class needs to purchase items to use their class features(except for spell components, which seem to be ignored/forgotten sometimes).
Does an alchemist need to purchase vials for his bombs/mutegens/extracts? If he does, that seems like a bid penalty disguised as a little penalty. No other class needs to purchase items to use their class features(except for spell components, which seem to be ignored/forgotten sometimes).
"Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials
at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombsthey can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial
remains usable by the alchemist for years."
"the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster’s component pouch."
The vials can be 'made at the start of the day' though no details are given on what this actually entails. The chemicals and mixtures for the bombs/mutegents/extracts are taken from an alchemy lab and can be replenished as easily as spell components. This does however require the purchase of an alchemy lab which is 200gp. That is a hefty price for starting equipement. I would probably give it to an alchemist for free, or for a vastly reduced price.
Clarification here would be nice though.
Edit: There is also the problem of weight. Does an alchemist needs to carry around a lab? That is 40lbs on a character that is not going to have a very high strength
"Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials
at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs
they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial
remains usable by the alchemist for years.""the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster’s component pouch."
The vials can be 'made at the start of the day' though no details are given on what this actually entails. The chemicals and mixtures for the bombs/mutegents/extracts are taken from an alchemy lab and can be replenished as easily as spell components. This does however require the purchase of an alchemy lab which is 200gp. That is a hefty price for starting equipement. I would probably give it to an alchemist for free, or for a vastly reduced price.
Clarification here would be nice though.
Edit: There is also the problem of weight. Does an alchemist needs to carry around a lab? That is 40lbs on a character that is not going to have a very high strength
I've had people play mad inventors before, they always had a small pony they put everything on and hauled it around, including an alchemy kit, masterwork smithing tools, etc.
Having said that though, they went through quite a few kits until they got high enough level to build their own version of a 'Handy Haversack' version of an alchemy kit. Basically an alchemy kit that folded up into box the size of a loaf of bread that weighed 4 lbs.
The APG will include a portable alchemist lab in the equipment chapter that covers this, working like a wizards spell component pouch...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I dont suppose we can get a preview of this for the playtest? I mean i know i can just houserule it, but for practical in game play, and especially for organized play this is pretty neccessary.
In addition what about the catalyst vial creation? Is this similarly just materials easily replenished from the alchemy lab? How long does it take to make them? I know it seems like a nitpicky details, but it could very easily come up, if the alchemist needs to make more in a hurry due to lost or stolen gear. My instinct is not to have a cost for these and for it to take 15 minutes to create enough vials for the day. It is what I will go with if i need to figure it out myself. But obviously I would rather playtest it in a way that gives you the most useful feedback as if this comes up, it is something that should be considered for the class.
Am I the only one that has a conceptual problem with making unlimited glass vials per day for no cost? I mean... in most fantasy settings small glass vials are expensive to make (glass being expensive to make as well).
I dont suppose we can get a preview of this for the playtest? I mean i know i can just houserule it, but for practical in game play, and especially for organized play this is pretty neccessary.The APG will include a portable alchemist lab in the equipment chapter that covers this, working like a wizards spell component pouch...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
That would be really cool.
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Am I the only one that has a conceptual problem with making unlimited glass vials per day for no cost? I mean... in most fantasy settings small glass vials are expensive to make (glass being expensive to make as well).
Well, they could be clay or some sort of ceramics, or even a weighted paper packet of volatile powders. There are lots of options besides glass, I'd think.
Am I the only one that has a conceptual problem with making unlimited glass vials per day for no cost? I mean... in most fantasy settings small glass vials are expensive to make (glass being expensive to make as well).Well, they could be clay or some sort of ceramics, or even a weighted paper packet of volatile powders. There are lots of options besides glass, I'd think.
infact a small wax paper packet that would be able to have a liquid poured into it then thrown would be very doable i think
I agree that its conceptually difficult to imagine.. but really no more so than all the stuff that fits into the Wizard's spell component pouch without becoming comingled.
if you look through the list of components it seems rather impractical that you could actually do what the rules say (i.e. grass hopper leg as free action of casting a spell) and not at least occasioanlly get a pinch of bat guano or sulphur mixed in :)
Its something we hand waive for the sake of convenience and expense. Afterall, no matter how cheap they are- if you make them buy vials and carry them around during all the adventures then it turns into a video game. "brb hafta run to town again, i ran out of vials for my stuff.."
-S
I agree that its conceptually difficult to imagine.. but really no more so than all the stuff that fits into the Wizard's spell component pouch without becoming comingled.
if you look through the list of components it seems rather impractical that you could actually do what the rules say (i.e. grass hopper leg as free action of casting a spell) and not at least occasioanlly get a pinch of bat guano or sulphur mixed in :)
Its something we hand waive for the sake of convenience and expense. Afterall, no matter how cheap they are- if you make them buy vials and carry them around during all the adventures then it turns into a video game. "brb hafta run to town again, i ran out of vials for my stuff.."
-S
so true
Am I the only one that has a conceptual problem with making unlimited glass vials per day for no cost? I mean... in most fantasy settings small glass vials are expensive to make (glass being expensive to make as well).
It depends i guess, assuming some magic is involved, its possible to make something small out of nothing. I dont think I have a problem with a alchemist picking up some mud, sprinkling on a few alchemical items, infusing it with some 'magic' and making a viable container. I dont think the vials are required to be glass. And even if they were, there is creation magic after all.
I agree that its conceptually difficult to imagine.. but really no more so than all the stuff that fits into the Wizard's spell component pouch without becoming comingled.
if you look through the list of components it seems rather impractical that you could actually do what the rules say (i.e. grass hopper leg as free action of casting a spell) and not at least occasioanlly get a pinch of bat guano or sulphur mixed in :)
Its something we hand waive for the sake of convenience and expense. Afterall, no matter how cheap they are- if you make them buy vials and carry them around during all the adventures then it turns into a video game. "brb hafta run to town again, i ran out of vials for my stuff.."
-S
Actually, I just give all casters eschew materials for this reason. Only components you actually need are focus components, religious icons, and expensive materials like gems etc. And I do charge them encumbrance for those things.
Which is why it really bothers me for the alchemist. I could almost see the wax paper, but it still doesn't answer all the other things he does with 'super human speed and dexterity'. That phrase is way too common in the class description for me.
I agree that its conceptually difficult to imagine.. but really no more so than all the stuff that fits into the Wizard's spell component pouch without becoming comingled.
if you look through the list of components it seems rather impractical that you could actually do what the rules say (i.e. grass hopper leg as free action of casting a spell) and not at least occasioanlly get a pinch of bat guano or sulphur mixed in :)
Its something we hand waive for the sake of convenience and expense. Afterall, no matter how cheap they are- if you make them buy vials and carry them around during all the adventures then it turns into a video game. "brb hafta run to town again, i ran out of vials for my stuff.."
-S
Actually, I just give all casters eschew materials for this reason. Only components you actually need are focus components, religious icons, and expensive materials like gems etc. And I do charge them encumbrance for those things.
Which is why it really bothers me for the alchemist. I could almost see the wax paper, but it still doesn't answer all the other things he does with 'super human speed and dexterity'. That phrase is way too common in the class description for me.
Well you houseruled away the component thing you didnt like, why not do it with alchemist. He doesnt use vials, he uses little magic baloons or something?
As for super human dexterity. Have you ever known someone who could do one thing crazy fast, but another he was a bumbling idiot? I could see a real life chemist being a real savant at his lab table, moving quicker then anyone would imagine, but often dumping his lunch tray in the caffeteria. In a fantasy game its just extended past the capacity of normal humans is all.
Well you houseruled away the component thing you didnt like, why not do it with alchemist. He doesnt use vials, he uses little magic baloons or something?As for super human dexterity. Have you ever known someone who could do one thing crazy fast, but another he was a bumbling idiot? I could see a real life chemist being a real savant at his lab table, moving quicker then anyone would imagine, but often dumping his lunch tray in the caffeteria. In a fantasy game its just extended past the capacity of normal humans is all.
There's a huge difference, conceptually, between a mage casting a spell and not requiring materials, and saying an alchemist (who, by definition, is a mixer of stuff) doesn't actually need the stuff to mix. I'm going to assume that was a joke, because otherwise I'm not sure what we're talking about.
I have known people who were good at one thing, but bad at others. None of them could mix up volatile explosives with two hands on demand and make a bomb capable of blowing up a horse into hamburger in 6 seconds. There is 'suspension of disbelief' and then there's 'WTF?'. Not to mention, if the alchemist has all those volatile chemicals at hand, how come they don't detonate when he falls down, get's fireballed, etc.
Like I said, I like the idea, but the way it's implemented so far just leaves me cold. If you like it, that's great, just not my thing. I'd have rather had a guy who mixes his stuff up ahead of time, and then uses it as needed. I really honestly think the vancian system is a bad fit for this and trying to force every cog to be the same cog makes your clock explode under internal pressure.
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I dont' think the wording has made it in anyway unreasonable. Note they say they prepare vials of the catalyst for the day, and one created they're good for years.
it's like saying that I, ahead of time, set up a vial of Bleach, and a Vial of ammonia. then on the round take a move action to pour them together, shake them, then toss the home made mustard gas bome at the enemy.
mixing 2 unamed 'catalysts' to form an active short lived bomb doesn't need to bring in a suspicion of disbelief, since it can be done in reality. If you add in the fact that the alchemist also mixes 'magic aura' into their concotions, it should be doubly reasonable.
Well you houseruled away the component thing you didnt like, why not do it with alchemist. He doesnt use vials, he uses little magic baloons or something?As for super human dexterity. Have you ever known someone who could do one thing crazy fast, but another he was a bumbling idiot? I could see a real life chemist being a real savant at his lab table, moving quicker then anyone would imagine, but often dumping his lunch tray in the caffeteria. In a fantasy game its just extended past the capacity of normal humans is all.
There's a huge difference, conceptually, between a mage casting a spell and not requiring materials, and saying an alchemist (who, by definition, is a mixer of stuff) doesn't actually need the stuff to mix. I'm going to assume that was a joke, because otherwise I'm not sure what we're talking about.
I have known people who were good at one thing, but bad at others. None of them could mix up volatile explosives with two hands on demand and make a bomb capable of blowing up a horse into hamburger in 6 seconds. There is 'suspension of disbelief' and then there's 'WTF?'. Not to mention, if the alchemist has all those volatile chemicals at hand, how come they don't detonate when he falls down, get's fireballed, etc.
Like I said, I like the idea, but the way it's implemented so far just leaves me cold. If you like it, that's great, just not my thing. I'd have rather had a guy who mixes his stuff up ahead of time, and then uses it as needed. I really honestly think the vancian system is a bad fit for this and trying to force every cog to be the same cog makes your clock explode under internal pressure.
It was a half joke. But its something to seriously consider. Does the alchemist actually need a physical thing to mix in? Can the container be made via some inherent magic, mixed in, and thrown without being a physical thing? If i can create magical force missiles in the game I dont see why that stretches the suspension of disbelief.
As for being able ot mix fast, obviously no one is capable of doing what any dnd character can do (not even counting you know, magic). I mean, at level 11 you can fire what, 5 arros in 6 seconds? Thats pretty much as difficult for me to believe as mixing something up fast.
In addition the chemicals themselves dont have to be volitile. There are lots of real world examples of chemicals that are independantly inert, or even inert when mixed and require some specific trigger, like heat or water. Perhaps the alchemist's bombs are only 'armed' when he is about to throw it using some piece of his internal magic.
I dont' think the wording has made it in anyway unreasonable. Note they say they prepare vials of the catalyst for the day, and one created they're good for years.
it's like saying that I, ahead of time, set up a vial of Bleach, and a Vial of ammonia. then on the round take a move action to pour them together, shake them, then toss the home made mustard gas bome at the enemy.
mixing 2 unamed 'catalysts' to form an active short lived bomb doesn't need to bring in a suspicion of disbelief, since it can be done in reality. If you add in the fact that the alchemist also mixes 'magic aura' into their concotions, it should be doubly reasonable.
The problem I have is, using your own example, the alchemist mixes up a vial of bleach and a vial of ammonia. Fine with that. But, they are invulnerable to being smashed, boiled, set on fire, etc, until he mixes them together and tosses them.
They are also inert if he hands them to his friend, and his friend can mix bleach and ammonia in the same vial and they do not have any effect, either when his friend hands them to him, or when they are thrown, because the Alchemist didn't mix them.
The whole 'mixes in magic aura' for me is even worse. It's just a very limited spellcaster with a clunky mechanic who can't even use his spells on others without taking a feat. Like I said though, if you like it, great, I hate it personally.
It was a half joke. But its something to seriously consider. Does the alchemist actually need a physical thing to mix in? Can the container be made via some inherent magic, mixed in, and thrown without being a physical thing? If i can create magical force missiles in the game I dont see why that stretches the suspension of disbelief.
I'd answer back, if you don't need things to mix, or things to mix in, then why are you calling it an alchemist? It's really just a spellcaster with a wierd clunky mechanic. For all intents and purposes it's a 3.5 Warlock with a built in explosive ability. Honestly, that's about what the class comes down to. If I want that in my game, I'll just let someone play a warlock. If I'm going to have an alchemist, I want someone who mixes strange and odd chemicals, draws out the magic inherent in the materials, not in his own aura.
As for being able ot mix fast, obviously no one is capable of doing what any dnd character can do (not even counting you know, magic). I mean, at level 11 you can fire what, 5 arros in 6 seconds? Thats pretty much as difficult for me to believe as mixing something up fast.
Actually, I've seen people quickfire with a bow (not a composite bow, but an old-style long or short or recurve bow). Not sure how fast they were, but I'm sure they could do an arrow a second. Not super accurate, but then again, we are at least within a stone's throw of reality.
And I understand this is not about reality, but, please, why is it ok to just handwave everything and say 'well, we allow magic'? Why does an alchemist have to work as a specialist spellcaster with a wonky mechanic? Why do chemicals only have their properties when he is holding them?
In addition the chemicals themselves dont have to be volitile. There are lots of real world examples of chemicals that are independantly inert, or even inert when mixed and require some specific trigger, like heat or water. Perhaps the alchemist's bombs are only 'armed' when he is about to throw it using some piece of his internal magic.
Yes, but all those chemicals still have to be on him, and if he's falling down and breaking vials open, or they are being boiled, or mixed when he smashes them open, then at the very least he should be 'losing' those chemicals, at the worst they should be reacting to each other. There are also examples of chemicals that are perfectly stable, until you heat them, or until you mix them together, or until you give them a violent shake. Remember, he's got chemicals on him for dozens of different things. Some of those are going to burn when exposed to flame, or explode when heated, or react badly with other chemicals if he falls down and breaks open his vials.
Actually for alchemy it's not so much the chemicals as it is the properties of those chemicals. Want to make something to blow up but don't have sulfur? Well find something else that is yellow and turn it into sulfur and you now have sulfur... in fact just it being yellow might be enough for you to get away with making it explode in the first place!
Too many people are thinking chemistry and not alchemy , let me help with that some with a few links for actual alchemy:
less extensive basic information from wiki
A more extensive site on alchemy
The thing here to remember is that alchemy isn't chemistry... and never was... chemistry developed out of alchemy but most alchemist subscribed to the 4 elements theory of matter, and accepted that magic was a basic part of the changes they sought.
For an alchemist just having the right chemical or catalysts (a much better word and less confusing) wasn't enough to cause the effect/ material that was wanted, hence why the bombs and extracts don't work for everyone.
I'd answer back, if you don't need things to mix, or things to mix in, then why are you calling it an alchemist? It's really just a spellcaster with a wierd clunky mechanic. For all intents and purposes it's a 3.5 Warlock with a built in explosive ability. Honestly, that's about what the class comes down to. If I want that in my game, I'll just let someone play a warlock. If I'm going to have an alchemist, I want someone who mixes strange and odd chemicals, draws out the magic inherent in the materials, not in his own aura.
What I mean is that perhaps the container is magical. He still mixes things, its just the vial itself is a little cantrip, conjured, or evoked on demand. Heck gnomes get something almost more impressive as a racial feature.
Actually, I've seen people quickfire with a bow (not a composite bow, but an old-style long or short or recurve bow). Not sure how fast they were, but I'm sure they could do an arrow a second. Not super accurate, but then again, we are at least within a stone's throw of reality.And I understand this is not about reality, but, please, why is it ok to just handwave everything and say 'well, we allow magic'? Why does an alchemist have to work as a specialist spellcaster with a wonky mechanic? Why do chemicals only have their properties when he is holding them?
Have you ever seen youtube videos of cup stacking? Google it im sure you'll find some. Here are normal seeming people that do this one task at rediculous speed. I doubt they sort their laundry as fast. It's just a mater of practice and focus. Now I agree with you about the whole inert thing. It seems it was intended for the class to be me first, so he can't just hand the bomb off to the party rogue. I dont like that part either personally. And I am not handwaving it, I am just saying it is a fantastic thing I am willing to accept on the basis of me being willing to accept something far less believable.
Yes, but all those chemicals still have to be on him, and if he's falling down and breaking vials open, or they are being boiled, or mixed when he smashes them open, then at the very least he should be 'losing' those chemicals, at the worst they should be reacting to each other. There are also examples of chemicals that are perfectly stable, until you heat them, or until you mix them together, or until you give them a violent shake. Remember, he's got chemicals on him for dozens of different things. Some of those are going to burn when exposed to flame, or explode when heated, or react badly with other chemicals if he falls down and breaks open his vials.
We dont do that with potions do we? Or even with alchemist fire, or holy water. In general dnd, says if items are attended (carried/worn) they dont get hit and are exempt from breaking. That is not new to the alchemist. If we had to roll saves or percentage dice for our gear every time we got hit/fell down, you would have some very frustrated players on your hands.
We dont do that with potions do we? Or even with alchemist fire, or holy water. In general dnd, says if items are attended (carried/worn) they dont get hit and are exempt from breaking. That is not new to the alchemist. If we had to roll saves or percentage dice for our gear every time we got hit/fell down, you would have some very frustrated players on your hands.
Actually,
Area effect damage can affect your equipment, and continuing acid damage can as well. That's sort of my point, if you're carrying greek fire you have to worry about a fireball. But not the alchemist.And I have had players have equipment damaged by acid, fire, etc. A wizard especially has to be worried about his spell book, inside his backpack, being affected by fire. Or inside a handy haversack that's burning.
Actually,
Area effect damage can affect your equipment, and continuing acid damage can as well. That's sort of my point, if you're carrying greek fire you have to worry about a fireball. But not the alchemist.And I have had players have equipment damaged by acid, fire, etc. A wizard especially has to be worried about his spell book, inside his backpack, being affected by fire. Or inside a handy haversack that's burning.
Only on a natural 1 on the save throw. It's fairly easy to fit this sort of stuff on that list too.
Only on a natural 1 on the save throw. It's fairly easy to fit this sort of stuff on that list too.Actually,
Area effect damage can affect your equipment, and continuing acid damage can as well. That's sort of my point, if you're carrying greek fire you have to worry about a fireball. But not the alchemist.And I have had players have equipment damaged by acid, fire, etc. A wizard especially has to be worried about his spell book, inside his backpack, being affected by fire. Or inside a handy haversack that's burning.
True, I just fail to see why a natural 1 on the save throw against a spell means your equipment can catch on fire, but a natural 1 on a climb or balance or acrobatics check can't mean the alchemist (or someone carrying greek fire urns) can't accidently set something off.
Other than the fact the alchemist is not carrying around his bombs, just ingredients that require his magic to make them bombs. :( Again back to the 'I'm a warlock with a different fluff and less powers'. :(
Sorry, it's just everytime I try to come at this class, it just seems more and more a hokey spellcaster with hamstrung abilities and a hokey way of casting spells.
I have to agree with mdt on this one. I read the abilities of the class and loved the flavor, but absolutely hate the magical aura aspect of the alchemy. If it was bringing out the magical properties of the material, that would be fine and great. But then they wouldn't be able to justify why they can't share stuff, the second thing I hate about the class.
I have another question about all the chemicals the Alchemist is carrying. What happens when you kill one and loot the body? Someone with Craft: Alchemy should be able to identify the chemicals and sell them or use them. How much are they worth?
As a side note, 15 is the most arrows I have seen shot in 30 seconds (all hitting a 10 inch diameter stationary target @ 20 yards. The archer was VERY good.) The person who shot that told me he normally got 13 and the best he had seen someone else do was 20. Peronally, I can shoot 9 with less accuracy. It does bother me that archers get so many attacks.
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True, I just fail to see why a natural 1 on the save throw against a spell means your equipment can catch on fire, but a natural 1 on a climb or balance or acrobatics check can't mean the alchemist (or someone carrying greek fire urns) can't accidently set something off.Other than the fact the alchemist is not carrying around his bombs, just ingredients that require his magic to make them bombs. :( Again back to the 'I'm a warlock with a different fluff and less powers'. :(
Sorry, it's just everytime I try to come at this class, it just seems more and more a hokey spellcaster with hamstrung abilities and a hokey way of casting spells.
I can understand the rules issue (about falling and what not) however on the alchemist issue I would really suggest checking out some of those links I posted...
The alchemist really were considered magic workers, and generally they relied on magic to get the job done. It's not so much of a stretch when considering actual alchemist instead of the later scientist and chemist.
I'm not saying that the Alchemist doesn't have a few spots both mechanically and fluff wise that could use some work (like the I get to learn a bit of everything right up front instead of starting focused and spreading out from there according to character desires). However I don't think the 'magical' part is in that category.
Really 'chemicals' is the wrong work for what the alchemist works with... 'chemist' do chemicals... alchemist work alchemy... magic.
Really 'chemicals' is the wrong work for what the alchemist works with... 'chemist' do chemicals... alchemist work alchemy... magic.
And there is a craft skill for that, and my ranger knows it. Why can't he reproduce any of the effects?
And there is a craft skill for that, and my ranger knows it. Why can't he reproduce any of the effects?
Really 'chemicals' is the wrong work for what the alchemist works with... 'chemist' do chemicals... alchemist work alchemy... magic.
Because he lacks the magic. Without the magic he's just crafting... with the magic he's doing alchemy. The skill covers the very base of the ability... much like spellcraft and knowledge(arcane) cover the very base of magic... that doesn't give you the ability to cast spells though. It takes specialized training (represented by taking levels in the correct class) to actually take the step from knowing about the bigger stuff and doing it.
This makes even more sense in context of everything I said before that point, and if those links are read even more sense.
It's kind of like asking "My wizard can craft swords, so why can't he specialize in them like a fighter?"
It says the alchemist is adept at mixing volatile ingredients and infusing them with his magical reserve.
Under certain conditions Flour can be extremely volatile. Perhaps he just carries around packets of flour then uses his magic aura to ignite their latent explosive nature.
I see this fellow as carrying around a lot of mundane junk which with the right magic touch (aka alchemy) is turned into potent items.
It says the alchemist is adept at mixing volatile ingredients and infusing them with his magical reserve.
Under certain conditions Flour can be extremely volatile. Perhaps he just carries around packets of flour then uses his magic aura to ignite their latent explosive nature.
I see this fellow as carrying around a lot of mundane junk which with the right magic touch (aka alchemy) is turned into potent items.
Thank you!
I have to agree with mdt on this one. I read the abilities of the class and loved the flavor, but absolutely hate the magical aura aspect of the alchemy. If it was bringing out the magical properties of the material, that would be fine and great. But then they wouldn't be able to justify why they can't share stuff, the second thing I hate about the class.
I have another question about all the chemicals the Alchemist is carrying. What happens when you kill one and loot the body? Someone with Craft: Alchemy should be able to identify the chemicals and sell them or use them. How much are they worth?
I really like the magic flavor tossed in. I think the magic aura fits perfectly with what these characters are based on. They can learn how to fine tune their aura and get it to work over longer periods of time or for other people (infuse extract, delay bomb, infuse mutagen).
I will say one thing about the magic aura thing. The first time I read it as an explanation for why you can't hand other people extracts I got a mental image. It was of another party member chest to chest with my Alchemist to be "within" his aura trying to drink one of his extracts.
Also if you conk my Alchemist on the head then look through his stuff, you're going to find a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense. Then you're going to walk away shaking your head wondering how he was blowing the heck out of you with dried banana powder*.
*The Claw is not right in the head.
I have to agree with mdt on this one. I read the abilities of the class and loved the flavor, but absolutely hate the magical aura aspect of the alchemy. If it was bringing out the magical properties of the material, that would be fine and great. But then they wouldn't be able to justify why they can't share stuff, the second thing I hate about the class.
I have another question about all the chemicals the Alchemist is carrying. What happens when you kill one and loot the body? Someone with Craft: Alchemy should be able to identify the chemicals and sell them or use them. How much are they worth?
I really like the magic flavor tossed in. I think the magic aura fits perfectly with what these characters are based on. They can learn how to fine tune their aura and get it to work over longer periods of time or for other people (infuse extract, delay bomb, infuse mutagen).
I will say one thing about the magic aura thing. The first time I read it as an explanation for why you can't hand other people extracts I got a mental image. It was of another party member chest to chest with my Alchemist to be "within" his aura trying to drink one of his extracts.
Also if you conk my Alchemist on the head then look through his stuff, you're going to find a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense. Then you're going to walk away shaking your head wondering how he was blowing the heck out of you with dried banana powder*.
*The Claw is not right in the head.
Except he specifically got all that stuff out of a normal alchemical kit.
As for why them being unable to hand stuff off, its probably the reason I hate the class the most. According to the links above, they tested their alchemy on others to make sure it was safe, and it usually wasn't.
Except he specifically got all that stuff out of a normal alchemical kit.
I dare you to find what's in a "normal alchemical kit." The Claw will eat his shoe if dried banana powder isn't on the list, then wonder why it keeps exploding.
Except he specifically got all that stuff out of a normal alchemical kit.I dare you to find what's in a "normal alchemical kit." The Claw will eat his shoe if dried banana powder isn't on the list, then wonder why it keeps exploding.
Yes, but someone with knowledge alchemy would be able to identify it if its a normal ingreedient
Yes, but someone with knowledge alchemy would be able to identify it if its a normal ingreedientExcept he specifically got all that stuff out of a normal alchemical kit.I dare you to find what's in a "normal alchemical kit." The Claw will eat his shoe if dried banana powder isn't on the list, then wonder why it keeps exploding.
Normal ingredient for what though? There is obviously some differences between 'normal' alchemy ingredients and extract/bomb ingredients... and a difference in training also.
I would suggest that Craft(alchemy) is a layperson's alchemy were as the alchemy of the alchemist class is the technical person's alchemy... the point where you realize the shortcuts that the layperson simply won't understand due to lack of training.
Yes, but someone with knowledge alchemy would be able to identify it if its a normal ingreedientExcept he specifically got all that stuff out of a normal alchemical kit.I dare you to find what's in a "normal alchemical kit." The Claw will eat his shoe if dried banana powder isn't on the list, then wonder why it keeps exploding.Normal ingredient for what though? There is obviously some differences between 'normal' alchemy ingredients and extract/bomb ingredients... and a difference in training also.
I would suggest that Craft(alchemy) is a layperson's alchemy were as the alchemy of the alchemist class is the technical person's alchemy... the point where you realize the shortcuts that the layperson simply won't understand due to lack of training.
And this seems like a horrible cludge of an excuse to me
More so than someone with spellcraft being unable to cast spells?
After all that's what the skills name inplies... the crafting of spells. If you can identify and know the spell by look why can't you cast it with the correct components?
For that manner why can't a wizard simply summon positive energy to heal someone like a cleric? It's just energy after all...
If you get right down to it the whole thing is clunky from the word go.