Are you happy with your current character sheet?


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Greetings all,

Wicked K Games is working with Louis Porter Jr Designs as announce in a previous thread. Right now I am working on a project soon to be released of a character sheet I've been working on for a couple months now. To be fair, I'm not downing anyone's else sheets, as I think many of them are great. I've always been a fan of building a better mousetrap. I've had it playtested with several groups locally and I'm mainly waiting on the art for it's release.

So I'm asking everybody, what do you really like or dislike about your current character sheet? Would you try using another character sheet right now?

Features that would set this appart include:

3 sheets so far (first two for regular charaters, one more for spellcasters.

    Page 1:
  • 4 weapon/wand slots that include a place for Item HP & Hardness
  • a AC comprehensive box for calculaing Regular AC, Touch AC & Flatfooted AC (including the Dodge Bonus box)
  • a box for Base, Climb, Fly, & Swim Speeds
  • Energy & Turn Resistances lines on the front page
  • a Box for keeping track of Bleed (or being Wounded) in the HP section
  • many lines for describing character infromation and backgrounds at the top of the page
  • 4 ability score slots (Regular, Inherent, Item Enhanced, and Temp) as well as a spot for Item Enhancement in the Saves section
  • a Skill List with lines for Racial, Feats, One-Time +3 bonus, etc

    Page 2:

  • plenty of room for Feats, Class Abilities, and Racial Abilities
  • a section with custom art for Slotted Magical Items
  • a seperate Inventory list for Loot/Expendables

    Page 3:

  • a list for Consumable/Exhaustable Magical Goods
  • a chart for Spellcaster Information and a comprehensive set of boxes for Spells per Day & Spells Known
  • Channeling, Specialty Wizard School, and Bloodline boxes
  • a box with custom art for Prefered Magical Gear

I am currently working on page 4 for cohorts, companions, familiars, etc. I whole heartedly thank you for looking over this and giveing feedback, thanks!


No takers?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

My ideal charactersheet?

Fillable, savable PDF.

The bleed section is a good idea.


Matthew Morris wrote:

My ideal charactersheet?

Fillable, savable PDF.

The bleed section is a good idea.

Thanks for reminding me... :) I'm wanting part of the document to be auto-calc too, but I have to bring a bit of outside help on that.


This idea is specifically for the spellcaster sheet, but one thing I often wish was available was a spot for the final adjusted Saving Throw DCs. My players sometimes actually take Spell Focus and similiar feats; so some types of spells (i.e. conjuration spells) have a more difficult Save.

Maybe a spot for Caster Level Check and Concentration Check too.

None of this stuff is hard to figure out, but my wizard players often have to remember what the formula is and think it through. It be handy if they knew what those numbers were at a snap.


Watcher wrote:

This idea is specifically for the spellcaster sheet, but one thing I often wish was available was a spot for the final adjusted Saving Throw DCs. My players sometimes actually take Spell Focus and similiar feats; so some types of spells (i.e. conjuration spells) have a more difficult Save.

Maybe a spot for Caster Level Check and Concentration Check too.

None of this stuff is hard to figure out, but my wizard players often have to remember what the formula is and think it through. It be handy if they knew what those numbers were at a snap.

Sounds good... I have a spot for Save vs x School and Bonus to DC for x School, and even a spot for the Concetration, but I hadn't thought of Caster Level Check... I'll impliment that now... thanks! :D

EDIT: I listed it as Current Effective Caster Level Check. I hated having to look up weapon hp or hardness for sunder during an exciting duel, so I totally agree on the infromation ready-to-go at a snap.

The Exchange

I'm interested, but the killer feature for me is landscape format - it saves a bucket-load of space at the table. Also, make something that looks good in A4 as well as US Letter.


brock wrote:
I'm interested, but the killer feature for me is landscape format - it saves a bucket-load of space at the table. Also, make something that looks good in A4 as well as US Letter.

Hmmm.... I may have to take a whack at converting it to landscape later (as it's in traditional portrait format), but it's worth doing.


Does anyone like the concept of a spell list or is it a waste of time? I'm also working on a "spell book", or a set of all the core spells on quick reference cards with gestures and words for somantics and verbals.

The Exchange

I would love to see a character sheet that was oriented on legal paper size (8.5x14 I believe) in a landscape format that can be folded into a booklet.
So the 1st sheet would have the last and first page on it made so that when folded the front of the book is page 1 and the back is page 4, and if you print double sided the 2nd and 3rd page would be inside.

I would love to see something like that.....


Fake Healer wrote:

I would love to see a character sheet that was oriented on legal paper size (8.5x14 I believe) in a landscape format that can be folded into a booklet.

So the 1st sheet would have the last and first page on it made so that when folded the front of the book is page 1 and the back is page 4, and if you print double sided the 2nd and 3rd page would be inside.

I would love to see something like that.....

Hmmm... I like the concept. I guess the order of the day is page orientation. The only thing I'd have to be sure of is that the fonts stayed large enough. I'm going to try converting the sheet to 8.5" tall x 6.5 wide (need space for border, so really 7"). I'll post feedback in a sec...


Okay, so I did a dry run, and this is totally doable. Although the font size will need a bit of tweeking, you can expect a booklet style for this. I'll have it set up so you can either print pages 1 & 2 (non-spellcaster), or 1 & 4 w/ 2 & 3 (for spellcasters), and if ther are more sheets, an option to print them all as a book. Thanks for the idea!

EDIT: I'd rather have 20 combinations and a table of contents w/ a lot happy player than a smaller file for a few happy players.

Keep the ideas coming if you got em friends! :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I don't think I've ever been happy with a character sheet.


SirUrza wrote:
I don't think I've ever been happy with a character sheet.

So what do you not like? I've had a few friends that only like laptop sheets, and I can understand their perspective. What are your biggest dislikes about character sheets?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Wicked K Games wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
I don't think I've ever been happy with a character sheet.
So what do you not like? I've had a few friends that only like laptop sheets, and I can understand their perspective. What are your biggest dislikes about character sheets?

Too chunky. I guess I just like monster/npc stat blocks the best, I've converted PCs into them before and only gone to the character sheet for doing the grunt work of leveling up.

I really hate how character sheets FOR ONE CHARACTER have expanded out to 4 pages.


SirUrza wrote:
Wicked K Games wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
I don't think I've ever been happy with a character sheet.
So what do you not like? I've had a few friends that only like laptop sheets, and I can understand their perspective. What are your biggest dislikes about character sheets?

Too chunky. I guess I just like monster/npc stat blocks the best, I've converted PCs into them before and only gone to the character sheet for doing the grunt work of leveling up.

I really hate how character sheets FOR ONE CHARACTER have expanded out to 4 pages.

So what about a condensed character sheet? I use it for starter characters with premades for one shot quests with newbies. I think I could totally make a condensed summary sheet, but the main problem I'd see is having room for details (feat short descriptions and such). Would you be interest in looking at such a sheet? It'd probably take about an hour or so. I've got a set of cards already out if you're interest in super condensed. My first shot at a product:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=68774

Let me know what you think...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Wicked K Games wrote:
So what about a condensed character sheet? I use it for starter characters with premades for one shot quests with newbies. I think I could totally make a condensed summary sheet, but the main problem I'd see is having room for details (feat short descriptions and such). Would you be interest in looking at such a sheet?

Sure I'd be interested. I've never been big on "room for details" on my main sheet. Maybe it's because of all the time I've spent playing 3.x I just don't need it.

Example:
Dodge ... +1 dodge vs target

I think many feat descriptions could be condensed just as easily by any other 3.x veteran.

Wicked K Games wrote:
It'd probably take about an hour or so. I've got a set of cards already out if you're interest in super condensed. My first shot at a product: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=68774 Let me know what you think...

Those look rather interesting though I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of cards either.

Scarab Sages

I'm working to update the 3.5E Profiler (an HTML-based charsheet with JavaScript support to auto-fill some fields) to PF Final.

My goal is to provide as much automation as possible and still be relatively easy for a GM to add their own customizations. Key features compared to the Profiler versions on TheTangledWeb.net and Myth-weavers.com:

1. All fields are validated and error checked as much as possible. When a user-entered field doesn't jibe with published rules, the field will be highlighted with a light gray so that the difference is visually identified.

2. All tables will allow for "one more entry" in all cases. So when asked, "How many weapons can it hold?" the answer will be "one more than you have". ;) This applies to weapons, armor, skills, class abilities, racial abilities, feats, inventory, spells, and languages.

3. An extensive list of URLs are built-in so that any recognized names will link back to the PRD. Skills, class abilities, racial abilities, feats, and spells will link back (spells are not done yet). I'm looking into a way to extract equipment information from the PRD dynamically and if that works, then inventory information will also link to the PRD.

4. I want to support containers in the inventory, including bags of holding and similar magic. All items will have a #Uses fields to track wands, potions, scrolls, and so forth. I may add daily and weekly charges if I can find a good UI that doesn't take up too much space.

5. A GM will have a "configuration" page where new data can be added. This will require quite a bit of data to be fully integrated, such as the URLs that new items should link to when the user types them in. I'm trying to make it easy to add races, skills, feats, and spells. Classes will be tougher, but I have an idea that will be written after the base tool is working reasonably well. (After alpha testing and probably after beta testing.)

I expect to start alpha testing within a few weeks. It's looking like my ideas for the spellcasting section are going to take longer than hoped for so the spell section will be the implementation from the existing Profiler; I'll update it next.

I've got a thread on TheTangledWeb.net where I'm discussing options and that's where the alpha test announcement will appear. I'm going to be very busy in spurts until the middle of January, but I'm still hoping to get something out soon...


azhrei_fje wrote:

I'm working to update the 3.5E Profiler (an HTML-based charsheet with JavaScript support to auto-fill some fields) to PF Final.

My goal is to provide as much automation as possible and still be relatively easy for a GM to add their own customizations. Key features compared to the Profiler versions on TheTangledWeb.net and Myth-weavers.com:

1. All fields are validated and error checked as much as possible. When a user-entered field doesn't jibe with published rules, the field will be highlighted with a light gray so that the difference is visually identified.

2. All tables will allow for "one more entry" in all cases. So when asked, "How many weapons can it hold?" the answer will be "one more than you have". ;) This applies to weapons, armor, skills, class abilities, racial abilities, feats, inventory, spells, and languages.

3. An extensive list of URLs are built-in so that any recognized names will link back to the PRD. Skills, class abilities, racial abilities, feats, and spells will link back (spells are not done yet). I'm looking into a way to extract equipment information from the PRD dynamically and if that works, then inventory information will also link to the PRD.

4. I want to support containers in the inventory, including bags of holding and similar magic. All items will have a #Uses fields to track wands, potions, scrolls, and so forth. I may add daily and weekly charges if I can find a good UI that doesn't take up too much space.

5. A GM will have a "configuration" page where new data can be added. This will require quite a bit of data to be fully integrated, such as the URLs that new items should link to when the user types them in. I'm trying to make it easy to add races, skills, feats, and spells. Classes will be tougher, but I have an idea that will be written after the base tool is working reasonably well. (After alpha testing and probably after beta testing.)

I expect to start alpha testing within a few weeks. It's looking like my ideas for the...

Sounds interesting. I've always been partial to .pdfs and printed sheet myself though. I've seen some great excel sheet and html sheets, but the best are user friendly ones.


SirUrza - Taking a bit longer than I thought, as to keeping or deleting portions, and making the arrangement work. Mostly removing boxes for each part in adding up the total. More later...


SirUrza wrote:
I don't think I've ever been happy with a character sheet.

I too have never really been happy with a character sheet. I have always designed my own in Corel Draw. (The only reason I really bought it, was to do this).

The routine things I find myself wanting are:

1)
Many weapon slots. 6 would be the absolute core minimum. I would not be interested with a sheet that had less than 6, and if you wre incorporating wands into that, then 6 might not even be enough.

2)
Class table. I hate... absolutely hate, trying to write my 2 classes and 2 prestige classes, and their levels, in a slot that's only big enough to record 1 or 2. I created a sheet that held up to 5 or 6 classes, and beside each you recorded its BAB and saves, and then totaled them up at the bottom of the classes. Also beside them were their level, HD, and skill points.

3)
I like a big, easy to find area (usually at the top) for recording my HP. The sheet is going to be used over and over again, so I don't want to be erasing and recording in the same little / small area. A 1" x 2" rectangular area has usually been my preference.

4)
Experience is sort of the same as HP for me. I want a large enough area that I can write several exp awards and total them up later.


Would you make a separate sheet for Psionics characters, or do they use the spellcaster sheet?

Something I think would be useful would be generic sections on the sheet for unique aspects of the character = spell-like abilities and such.

I always find myself wanting more space for feats - citing them, describing them, categorizing them in terms of how they were acquired, being able to map out the feat tree, etc.

I think equipment should always have its own sheet.

Mounts generally need a half page or more.

A section for contacts or special NPC's would be useful.

If I can think of more, I'll post it.


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
I don't think I've ever been happy with a character sheet.

I too have never really been happy with a character sheet. I have always designed my own in Corel Draw. (The only reason I really bought it, was to do this).

The routine things I find myself wanting are:

1)
Many weapon slots. 6 would be the absolute core minimum. I would not be interested with a sheet that had less than 6, and if you wre incorporating wands into that, then 6 might not even be enough.

2)
Class table. I hate... absolutely hate, trying to write my 2 classes and 2 prestige classes, and their levels, in a slot that's only big enough to record 1 or 2. I created a sheet that held up to 5 or 6 classes, and beside each you recorded its BAB and saves, and then totaled them up at the bottom of the classes. Also beside them were their level, HD, and skill points.

3)
I like a big, easy to find area (usually at the top) for recording my HP. The sheet is going to be used over and over again, so I don't want to be erasing and recording in the same little / small area. A 1" x 2" rectangular area has usually been my preference.

4)
Experience is sort of the same as HP for me. I want a large enough area that I can write several exp awards and total them up later.

1 - Got for right now, I'll have to see if I can make it 6, good to know.

2 - I've got a large line for this, but perhaps I could expand it out like I did for speeds. It should be easy if I move around the pathfinder assoc'd logo.

3 - Got that coffin nailed shut. It may be mid page, but it's on the left side.

4 - Not a hard fix. I can make a strip for listing as well as a total.

I appreciate the feedback as it gives me room to improve. The only trade off that has to be made for having a comprehensive sheet is making space. However, I think after a couple session of getting used to the layout, hopefully this sheet will last all 20 levels.

EDIT: There are 16 lines for adding XP and one for the added total (for the last time the total was tallied).


Talonne Hauk wrote:

Would you make a separate sheet for Psionics characters, or do they use the spellcaster sheet?

Something I think would be useful would be generic sections on the sheet for unique aspects of the character = spell-like abilities and such.

I always find myself wanting more space for feats - citing them, describing them, categorizing them in terms of how they were acquired, being able to map out the feat tree, etc.

I think equipment should always have its own sheet.

Mounts generally need a half page or more.

A section for contacts or special NPC's would be useful.

If I can think of more, I'll post it.

Thanks for your post, actually I was thinking of ptting a spot for spell point or power points on page four, as well as the system for spell points my group is using. I had planned page four to have half the sheet for familiar/companion/eidelon, and a third of the page for a mount/travel element. I think a fifth page and even sixth for adventuring note, connects, etc, is needed.

Page two has a table for all slotted magic items, 20 lines for gear & tools, 12 lines for loot/expendables (like arrows), and page 3 has 25 lines for consumable/expendable magic objects.

Currently there are 30 or so lines for feats & class abilities. I have thought about a seperate sheet for figuring feat chains and progression toward prestige classes, but haven't got the concept layout figured out yet. It has been enough so far, but anyone else disagree?

On a side note, after this project I plan on coming out with item cards for all the items in the equipment & magic items chapters.

Any feedback for these?


I think someone mentioned above in this thread about having to design their own to best fit their campaign needs. Other than just having yet another character sheet ... someone ought to come out with a simple program that allows you to create customizable templates that gets finalized into a PDF or other format for your PCs to use in your campaign. You're going to use Action Points? Modify that in one section. You want to add skills because you want to blend d20 Modern into your Fantasy campaign? Put a couple lines in there for those skills and automatically alphabetize 'em.

Unless I can bug my woman out of her disdain for 'goblins and indians' to put her graphics design skills to work and customize me my own character sheet format, what would get me to spend the money is for such a dynamic template program made offerable and presented in a clean formatted result.


Urizen wrote:

I think someone mentioned above in this thread about having to design their own to best fit their campaign needs. Other than just having yet another character sheet ... someone ought to come out with a simple program that allows you to create customizable templates that gets finalized into a PDF or other format for your PCs to use in your campaign. You're going to use Action Points? Modify that in one section. You want to add skills because you want to blend d20 Modern into your Fantasy campaign? Put a couple lines in there for those skills and automatically alphabetize 'em.

Unless I can bug my woman out of her disdain for 'goblins and indians' to put her graphics design skills to work and customize me my own character sheet format, what would get me to spend the money is for such a dynamic template program made offerable and presented in a clean formatted result.

azhrei_fje may have what you need, I must honestly admit, my skills lay in PDF and Paint Shop Pro/Photoshop. If I had more programming skills I'd take a crack at it like WotC has for 4th edition.


Wicked K Games wrote:
No takers?

I need to see it. A nonfillable one is not bad either. I would do that one first.


wraithstrike wrote:
Wicked K Games wrote:
No takers?
I need to see it. A nonfillable one is not bad either. I would do that one first.

As an absolute question of trust, let me ask this:

If you were given a copy and liked it, would you purchase it after seeing it? The reason I ask is because the final product will probably cost a little bit, like many expanded character sheets out there.

Why?

I've paid for art to be created for it and I'm in partnership currently with Louis Porter Jr Design. Furthermore, I'm a stay at home dad (my significant other makes a good chunk more than I did, and I love spending time with my 5 month old son). I want to actually get her something for nice the holidays with money I actually earned and suprise her.

The absolute trust comes in here... I'm going to send copies to some people who have thrown in their two cents sincerely and contributed with feedback as the final product develops. If they are unhappy with the end result, fine. Delete it and use whatever else suits you. If those few like it and are please with it, I don't think asking them to purchase it online is so distasteful.

I started with a concept for myself, but I'm trying to develop something the community will love, and trying to show my significant other that doing this is a resourceful way of spending my time. I'd like any opinions or comments on this, the more honest the better.

One last thing, the "playtestes" will have a say in hlping me set a fair price point. Thanks all.

The Exchange

Wicked K Games wrote:


I started with a concept for myself, but I'm trying to develop something the community will love, and trying to show my significant other that doing this is a resourceful way of spending my time. I'd like any opinions or comments on this, the more honest the better.

I'd pay up to $4 for a really good character sheet. If you could come up with ones that were strongly customised and condensed for specific classes, I might buy many at $1-$2 each.

I'd want to be able to get rid of the art - my eyes like plain text on a white background (sorry).

Small hints are nice: e.g. Concentration = d20 + CL + [ ] stat

Grouping things so that I can omit and entire sheet if I have neither a familiar/pet/mount would be great.

Just some thoughts.


brock wrote:
Wicked K Games wrote:


I started with a concept for myself, but I'm trying to develop something the community will love, and trying to show my significant other that doing this is a resourceful way of spending my time. I'd like any opinions or comments on this, the more honest the better.

I'd pay up to $4 for a really good character sheet. If you could come up with ones that were strongly customised and condensed for specific classes, I might buy many at $1-$2 each.

I'd want to be able to get rid of the art - my eyes like plain text on a white background (sorry).

Small hints are nice: e.g. Concentration = d20 + CL + [ ] stat

Grouping things so that I can omit and entire sheet if I have neither a familiar/pet/mount would be great.

Just some thoughts.

Fair enough, I'd still keep the art as it has been paid for, but I can feature an art free version. As many people have skilled to the end of this post, I plan to take the same page and have many version available in the same package. :D More bang for your buck!


I'd like a sheet with a full CMD modifier list, and weapons & CMB with a side section in atk/dmg for buffed stats.


Christopher Vrysen wrote:
I'd like a sheet with a full CMD modifier list, and weapons & CMB with a side section in atk/dmg for buffed stats.

Just to make sure I'm complete follwing you;

CMB: Total = BAB + STR + SIZE + FEAT + MISC + TEMP
CMD: Total = 10 + STR + DEX + SIZE + TEMP

I can add a temp spot for buff (for adding +X or -#dX, etc) on the weapon attack and damage.

I have a temp spot on the CMB and CMD, but would you prefer a more pronounced buff slot? It wouldn't be hard at all, but I just want to be sure I've understood correctly.

I like it though, BTW... :D


Wicked K Games wrote:
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

The routine things I find myself wanting are:

2)
Class table. I hate... absolutely hate, trying to write my 2 classes and 2 prestige classes, and their levels, in a slot that's only big enough to record 1 or 2. I created a sheet that held up to 5 or 6 classes, and beside each you recorded its BAB and saves, and then totaled them up at the bottom of the classes. Also beside them were their level, HD, and skill points.

2 - I've got a large line for this, but perhaps I could expand it out like I did for speeds. It should be easy if I move around the pathfinder assoc'd logo.

What I like about the class chart approach, is that it makes leveling up so much easier because all the information is right there. (Very important if you have multiple classes -- its also very easy for you (or your GM) to check to make sure you added everything up right).

Here is a sample of what I used in the past. Although it has 4 lines, I like 5 far better for up to level 20 advancement. (Of course there were so many broke PrC's in 3.5, that often it was only worthwhile to level dip for 1 or 2 levels, so this really added the level tally up).

SAMPLE

It does sound like you are trying to just fit everything into an existing sheet template, so I suspect adding such a chart would require an almost complete re-design. In the end, I think it's worth it, and all my players in the past really liked my custom character sheets, and this was one of the reasons why. If others see merit in such a design, hopefully they will comment on it here to see if such a re-design would be warranted?


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
Wicked K Games wrote:
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

The routine things I find myself wanting are:

2)
Class table. I hate... absolutely hate, trying to write my 2 classes and 2 prestige classes, and their levels, in a slot that's only big enough to record 1 or 2. I created a sheet that held up to 5 or 6 classes, and beside each you recorded its BAB and saves, and then totaled them up at the bottom of the classes. Also beside them were their level, HD, and skill points.

2 - I've got a large line for this, but perhaps I could expand it out like I did for speeds. It should be easy if I move around the pathfinder assoc'd logo.

What I like about the class chart approach, is that it makes leveling up so much easier because all the information is right there. (Very important if you have multiple classes -- its also very easy for you (or your GM) to check to make sure you added everything up right).

Here is a sample of what I used in the past. Although it has 4 lines, I like 5 far better for up to level 20 advancement. (Of course there were so many broke PrC's in 3.5, that often it was only worthwhile to level dip for 1 or 2 levels, so this really added the level tally up).

SAMPLE

It does sound like you are trying to just fit everything into an existing sheet template, so I suspect adding such a chart would require an almost complete re-design. In the end, I think it's worth it, and all my players in the past really liked my custom character sheets, and this was one of the reasons why. If others see merit in such a design, hopefully they will comment on it here to see if such a re-design would be warranted?

Actually I just finished the minor rework a couple minutes before reading this and funny as it may be, it matches with yours almost the same with a could little differences. I had to abbreviate to BAB, HD, Level to LVL, and Fort/Ref/Will to F/R/W. There are actually six lines, but I figured the totals would be elsewhere on the sheet (save spots, HP max, BAB total, etc). I had to shrink the Pathfinder logo, but it's size was a little filler anyway. I brought the weapon slots up to five, but it seems I'd have to make major sacrifices space wise for more. In the end, I may make 3 seperate designs - a combat, a spellcaster, and a specialist varient. Is 5 weapon slots enough though? I'd have to drop energy and magical resistances for six, but it is doable. I've already dropped the note bar for a shorter square on the saves (dwarf vs poison, dwarf vs spells, elves vs sleep, etc). I'd have to move BAB total out of the way and get rid of Arcane Spell Fail %... So if there's a sixth page, I'd have to split it to two pages.

My only point is, knowing how important this is helps me to know what I need to prioritize for. Thanks again for your comments.

Here's what I had in mind... http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/f/3/7/600_12152567.jpeg


I've had an ephiphany! I looked over and over the format before coming to these conclusions:

Kor-OS, what if instead of having all 6 weapons on the front page, why not have the favorite 4 and have a different page with 6 more slots for weapons/wands that also includes spots for alternative armor configurations! If you have a shield, a buckler, and a lighter set of armor, it's have the information for what your exact AC & flatfoot would be wearing those. This also will allow me to put back the note bolck and expand the current HP to the 1" wide x 2" tall HP column.

The above question is open to reponse from anyone BTW...

Furthermore, to give flexiblity in booklet style printing, I'll put every sheet on the left and right side of the page and the player can print whichever order they want their booklet pages to go in and what to omit! So a fighter can have the additional weapons & armor page and the spellcaster can print the spellcaster sheet, meanwhile the druid can print their compainion page.

Currently at 8 pages:

  • First page - Summarys and primary info
  • Second page - Feats, racial, class abilites, inventory
  • Third page - Spellcaster info and gear
  • Fourth page - Companion/Familiar/Eidelon and Mount/Travel Element
  • Fifth page - Additional weapons/wand and armor boxes, for alt use
  • Six & Seventh page - Adventuring notes, friends/enemies, connections, etc.
  • Eighth page - Condensed single page character sheet (as requested)
  • More if a spell list sheet added...

By no means would you need all 8 pages, but what every you wanted or did not would be their. Also the formats of Letter, A4, Landscape, and 8.5"x14" booklet would be available for all pages. It's the closest to being customizable I can get with a pdf!

This is the current preposal... any feedback?


Wicked K Games wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Wicked K Games wrote:
No takers?
I need to see it. A nonfillable one is not bad either. I would do that one first.

As an absolute question of trust, let me ask this:

If you were given a copy and liked it, would you purchase it after seeing it? The reason I ask is because the final product will probably cost a little bit, like many expanded character sheets out there.

Why?

I've paid for art to be created for it and I'm in partnership currently with Louis Porter Jr Design. Furthermore, I'm a stay at home dad (my significant other makes a good chunk more than I did, and I love spending time with my 5 month old son). I want to actually get her something for nice the holidays with money I actually earned and suprise her.

The absolute trust comes in here... I'm going to send copies to some people who have thrown in their two cents sincerely and contributed with feedback as the final product develops. If they are unhappy with the end result, fine. Delete it and use whatever else suits you. If those few like it and are please with it, I don't think asking them to purchase it online is so distasteful.

I started with a concept for myself, but I'm trying to develop something the community will love, and trying to show my significant other that doing this is a resourceful way of spending my time. I'd like any opinions or comments on this, the more honest the better.

One last thing, the "playtestes" will have a say in hlping me set a fair price point. Thanks all.

Neceros puts out fine free sheets so in order for me to pay for a character sheet it would have to be really good. They have the regular sheets and the auto-fill ones.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

How about a checkbox for Mage Armor or Magical Vestemnt spells in the AC box?
Sir_Olibolli had this idea and I think it great!


I will admit I have only skimmed the post so this may have been mentioned, but an animal companion/familiar section that does is not forced into a small corner of the page would be nice


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Neceros puts out fine free sheets so in order for me to pay for a character sheet it would have to be really good. They have the regular sheets and the auto-fill ones.

+1.

Sorry to say but there are so many decent free character sheet options out there (online: dndsheets.net and offline: multiple very nice excel sheets) for people who like character sheets that I just don't know how many people would pay for one. Who knows, I could be very wrong though.

As for my opinion (as if anyone cares lol) I have always WANTED to like a character sheet, preferably one that did all the math for me etc, but I have often gone through the effort of filling in all of the blanks and then decided later I just couldn't remember where anything was. All the boxes and lines and black borders and filling around areas distracts me so I end up just penciling the character sheet out on a piece of note paper. It has only what I need and I usually know where everything is, not to mention its infinitely customizable. That's just me though :)

Besides, PCGen (and other tools) can spit out sheets in multiple formats and colors and orientations etc. Why would I pay for something when I can use PCGen or Redblade?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

As a GM, I'd love a page with 4 to 8 Monster/NPC blocks, self calculating, so I can put the PC's most relevant stats there, the enemies, the NPC's and cohorts, and have them ready to go. Then I could print them out on card stock and cut them up and put them in a box to use as needed.


dryder wrote:

How about a checkbox for Mage Armor or Magical Vestemnt spells in the AC box?

Sir_Olibolli had this idea and I think it great!

I hadn't added in a seperate slot for mage armor since it doesn't stack with armor, but it would be nice to put a temp slot up for it.

Magic vestment grants enhancement bonus, which I'm going to add in. The only thing I wasn't sure of was if I should add a temp box or not. I'm heavily leaning toward doing so. I could make actual check boxes, but I'm not sure how many "AC" spells there are off the top of my head... I'll see what I can do... I appreciate the suggestion. ;)

wraithstrike wrote:

I will admit I have only skimmed the post so this may have been mentioned, but an animal companion/familiar section that does is not forced into a small corner of the page would be nice

I totally agree here. That's why they're getting a full half of a sheet. Having an imp wielding a Wand of Cure Light, for example needs a bit of space. *I can't remember who to credit for that.*

wraithstrike wrote:
Neceros puts out fine free sheets so in order for me to pay for a character sheet it would have to be really good. They have the regular sheets and the auto-fill ones.

I completely understand your perspective, and yes, there are a lot of good sheet out. What I'm trying to provide is a premium sheet. I know ome people are irritated at the idea of paying for a sheet, but honestly, for the cost less then a lunch at McDonalds, there's a sheet with everything there. I'm not going to be mad if the sheet doesn't become a killer app or anything.

I'm not looking to get big busks off of this, I could be spending the same amount of time that I do implimenting requests at with temp work, but my significant other has been gracious enough to allow me to attempt to work freelance doing design.

Although how I live my home life isn't your problem (said in absolute respect), I'm attempting to go above and beyond for quality and I'm very outgoing in trying to make my target audience happy.

Concerning PC Gen and such, honestly, I am not a software engineer and cannot compete with designing custom software. However, I will do my absolute best to provide something great for a very affordable and fair price.

One last note, there are two projects I've mentioned in this thread that I would like to undertake, but if this is not sucessful, then truthfully, I may not be able to try them (and they are much bigger projects). Thank you for being honest Jreyst and Wraithstrike.


mdt wrote:
As a GM, I'd love a page with 4 to 8 Monster/NPC blocks, self calculating, so I can put the PC's most relevant stats there, the enemies, the NPC's and cohorts, and have them ready to go. Then I could print them out on card stock and cut them up and put them in a box to use as needed.

I did something kind of like that with Initiative cards, but no auto-calc or fill-in-the-box. It's something I've wanted to get to, as I used monster stat block cards with 3.5, and I want to make some similar to my initiatve cards (in the sende of being able to print on to 4x6 or 3x5 cards). More on this as soon as the current project is comeplete. :D


I use the jamesthebard.net fillable PDF version of Neceros' sheet, and absolutely love it. It's had a few issues, but the developer has been very responsive on making adjustments to the sheet.

That said, an expanded sheet that filled the role of 'Character Journal' would be something that I'd also enjoy having... so the concept of an 8-sheet (or more) journal type sheet would be awesome.

However, my main issue with 'do everything' sheets is a lot of space will be given over to things I don't have... such as spellcasting info getting in the way of melee, or vice versa... if you have slightly different versions of the 'main' sheet that focused on full caster, non-caster, and hybrid... that would be amazing.

Another thing when designing sheets is to try to throw them at as many real-world characters as possible. If your players fill everything in with their 10th level chars, it's easy to see what's missing or needs tweaking...

Good luck!


I always thought that optimal sheet is the one that let's you print only the pages you need and doesn't spread same things all over the pages. This means that you don't have a page where there is couple of boxes for weapons, and then another page for more boxes for weapons. This is difficult to accomplish, because you have to fit a LOT of stuff in few pages. I think that a good sheet needs two pages for basic stuff, and then different pages for different types of characters. "Do everything" type of sheet will easily have like 15 pages, but the thing is to lay it out so you can combine pages suited just for your character. I have worked over this for months and know how difficult it is to make work, but it's possible I think. And when you want everything to be auto-fillable with lot of calculations, your going through a lot of work to keep file size as small as possible...

You're on the right track with this community though. When creating my sheet I had tons of great feedback from here to improve the sheet. Good luck!


Marshall Jansen wrote:

I use the jamesthebard.net fillable PDF version of Neceros' sheet, and absolutely love it. It's had a few issues, but the developer has been very responsive on making adjustments to the sheet.

That said, an expanded sheet that filled the role of 'Character Journal' would be something that I'd also enjoy having... so the concept of an 8-sheet (or more) journal type sheet would be awesome.

However, my main issue with 'do everything' sheets is a lot of space will be given over to things I don't have... such as spellcasting info getting in the way of melee, or vice versa... if you have slightly different versions of the 'main' sheet that focused on full caster, non-caster, and hybrid... that would be amazing.

Another thing when designing sheets is to try to throw them at as many real-world characters as possible. If your players fill everything in with their 10th level chars, it's easy to see what's missing or needs tweaking...

Good luck!

The 3.5 version of the Neceros sheets(yes back to them again) had an option in the bookmark area to add or subtract space in certain areas. You could add space for items or familiars, as an example. They were customizable to an extent, but I dont think they were auto-fill.

Click here to see what I mean.


wraithstrike wrote:


The 3.5 version of the Neceros sheets(yes back to them again) had an option in the bookmark area to add or subtract space in certain areas. You could add space for items or familiars, as an example. They were customizable to an extent, but I dont think they were auto-fill.

Click here to see what I mean.

Yea, that's a cool way to make customizable pdf-sheets. Problem is that if you want to make it fully editable, the amount of 'layers' can easily get out of hands. But yup, Neceros is a crafty guy indeed =).


i dont play pathfinder, but i would be totally up to buy one. i am somewhat of a house husband myself. let me know when its posted for purchase.

i have long ago realized that good ideas come from everywhere.


Marshall Jansen wrote:
...It's had a few issues, but the developer has been very responsive on making adjustments to the sheet.

I agree with this, it is ESSENTIAL to follow up on a product. It's very frustrating to have a flaw and be unable to fix it. There were a couple video games I was playing that had a flaw they wouldn't bother to fix, and it ruined the game for me. I wouldn't want that to happen to any other people, and I think it's one of the reason paizo does so much playtesting.

Marshall Jansen wrote:
That said, an expanded sheet that filled the role of 'Character Journal' would be something that I'd also enjoy having... so the concept of an 8-sheet (or more) journal type sheet would be awesome.

I think this is what sets the deluxe sheets apart from the basic ones. I'd love to hear whatyour favorite parts of a character journal are (quests, allies, enemies, contacts, session by seesion notes, campaign notes, etc...) It may be beneficial to have a single page sheet that is specifically for recording what happens during a sessions. When the page is full print another and keep the old one as notes. There could be a spot for session date, who it relates to, what happened, check boxes for level of importance, etc.

I love plots where NPCs reappear or turn out to be more than they seemed. It adds depth and reality. Reviewing what happened keeps elements of the story from being forgotten too.

Marshall Jansen wrote:

However, my main issue with 'do everything' sheets is a lot of space will be given over to things I don't have... such as spellcasting info getting in the way of melee, or vice versa... if you have slightly different versions of the 'main' sheet that focused on full caster, non-caster, and hybrid... that would be amazing.

Another thing when designing sheets is to try to throw them at as many real-world characters as possible. If your players fill everything in with their 10th level chars, it's easy to see what's missing or needs tweaking...

Earlier Brock mentioned having this too. The more I've heard that there needs to be basic alteration of the main sheet the more I have to agree. I think as long as the character sheets aren't single class specific like the first 3e sheet but instead divided 9 varients like so:

  • melee combatant
  • ranged combatant
  • full arcane/innate caster
  • full divine caster
  • skill/specialist
  • combatant/divine (partial caster) mix
  • multiclasser combat/magic
  • multiclasser specialist/magic
  • multiclasser mixer

It'd that a little time to vary, but the end product would offer really great sheets no matter what you want to play. The only possible drawback is a lot of pages (not a big deal, as the pdf will be portfolio style) and that if a person changed their mind half way through the build to go a completely different direction, they'd have to print a couple pages over, copy across, and start again.

It'd only be a little more work, but as that I have 3 varients made already, a few more isn't a big deal.


Salama wrote:

I always thought that optimal sheet is the one that let's you print only the pages you need and doesn't spread same things all over the pages. This means that you don't have a page where there is couple of boxes for weapons, and then another page for more boxes for weapons. This is difficult to accomplish, because you have to fit a LOT of stuff in few pages. I think that a good sheet needs two pages for basic stuff, and then different pages for different types of characters. "Do everything" type of sheet will easily have like 15 pages, but the thing is to lay it out so you can combine pages suited just for your character. I have worked over this for months and know how difficult it is to make work, but it's possible I think. And when you want everything to be auto-fillable with lot of calculations, your going through a lot of work to keep file size as small as possible...

You're on the right track with this community though. When creating my sheet I had tons of great feedback from here to improve the sheet. Good luck!

Maybe this is the breakdown of what actual pages per the above 9:

  • Melee Combatant Base Page
  • Ranged Combatant Base Page
  • Melee/Ranged Combatant Base Page
  • Ranged/Specialist Base Page
  • Melee/Specialist Base Page
  • Skillful Specialist
  • Full Caster Base Page
  • Caster/Combatant Base Page

  • Combatant Inventory Page
  • Caster Inventory Page
  • Specialist Inventory Page

  • Full Arcane Spellcaster Page
  • Full Bardic Spellcaster Page
  • Full Divine Spellcaster Page
  • Full Point-Based Caster Page
    (Psionics may not be open content, will research later)

  • Partial Divine Caster w/ Companion/Mount Page
  • Companion/Familiar/Eidelon and Mount/Travel Animal Page
  • Focused Mount Page (Mounted Combat focused)

  • Storytelling Based Campaign Adventure Journal Pages
  • Non-Storytelling Based Campaign Adventure Journal Pages
  • Sandbox Based Campaign Adventure Journal Pages
  • Island Style Based Campaign Adventure Journal Pages

  • Combat Single Condensed Page
  • Specialist Single Condensed Page
    (No single caster sheet, sorry, but I think casters have too much additional info to make this work as of now)

Is this too many pages or just the ticket? Did I leave off a page you'd like to see or have another idea? I'm all ears! :D

Salama and Donnald Johnson, many thanks for the support comments too! I couldn't do this without the community, and I certainly want them to be happy.

EDIT: PS -> I haven't used layers before, so I'd have to research it, and I'm having a friend help me with the auto-calc/auto-fill, as he's better with it than I am. Maybe he'll know more about layer, I'll post as I know more.


Wicked K Games wrote:


I think this is what sets the deluxe sheets apart from the basic ones. I'd love to hear whatyour favorite parts of a character journal are (quests, allies, enemies, contacts, session by seesion notes, campaign notes, etc...) It may be beneficial to have a single page sheet that is specifically for recording what happens during a sessions. When the page is full print another and keep the old one as notes. There could be a spot for session date, who it relates to, what happened, check boxes for level of importance, etc.

For a session, I'm most interested in:

Which PCs were there
Where we were
Who we met
What our goal/quest/job was
What did we accomplish
Who did we have conflict with
What did we gain
What was the climax/end of session

Keeping track of where you were and what you did on a session-by-session level is the key to the character's history.

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