Reach Evolution

[Nymor]

The Reach Evolution states that one of the Eidolon attacks reach is increased by 5f.

1) If the Eidolon has more than one attack of the same kind (for example 3 Tentacles) all of them have +5 reach?

2) The Eidolon still get to attack near him with a reach attack? (Is a fixed range like a spear, o a versatile one like a spiked chain?)

[lastknightleft]

Nymor wrote:

The Reach Evolution states that one of the Eidolon attacks reach is increased by 5f.

1) If the Eidolon has more than one attack of the same kind (for example 3 Tentacles) all of them have +5 reach?

2) The Eidolon still get to attack near him with a reach attack? (Is a fixed range like a spear, o a versatile one like a spiked chain?)

1) no it's only a single tentacle even if you have 3. If you want all 3 to have reach you have to spend 3 points. Compare to the language of abilities that affect a type of natural attack.

Summoner playtest document wrote:

Select one type of natural attack. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can...

to reach

Summoner playtest document wrote:

One of an eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking at foes at a distance.

see how it affects an attack not a type of attack?

2) it's versatile like the 3.5 spiked chain, remember in pathfinder the spiked chain no longer has reach :P

[Nymor]

lastknightleft wrote:

2) it's versatile like the 3.5 spiked chain, remember in pathfinder the spiked chain no longer has reach :P

My bad for the poor spiked chain..i didn't notice :D

Ty for the answers :)

[lastknightleft]

Nymor wrote:

lastknightleft wrote:

2) it's versatile like the 3.5 spiked chain, remember in pathfinder the spiked chain no longer has reach :P

My bad for the poor spiked chain..i didn't notice :D

Ty for the answers :)

No prob I had the same questions when I built an eidelon with reach tentacles, it's all in the wording of the abilities :)

The thing is the ability is called reach, but it doesn't give the reach weapon property to natural weapons, it merely increases the reach by 5' that's the difference there.

[Maezer]

lastknightleft wrote:

1) no it's only a single tentacle even if you have 3. If you want all 3 to have reach you have to spend 3 points. Compare to the language of abilities that affect a type of natural attack.

Except you can't spend 3 points. You can only select the reach evolution once.

And this really feels awkward. Having the right clawed arm be 10' long and th left only 5'. I think the ability needs to be rewritten for clarity at the very least.

I'd suggest bumping it to a 2 point evolution, and having it effect all natural attacks of a given type. And let it be selected multiple times. Its effects stack if chosen for the same attack. So if you want you can get a 15/20' tentacle. Perhaps put a level min on each stack akin to the natural armor one.

[Petrus222]

Maezer wrote:

Except you can't spend 3 points. You can only select the reach evolution once.

... I think the ability needs to be rewritten for clarity at the very least.

I'd suggest bumping it to a 2 point evolution, and having it effect all natural attacks of a given type. And let it be selected multiple times. Its effects stack if chosen for the same attack. So if you want you can get a 15/20' tentacle. Perhaps put a level min on each stack akin to the natural armor one.

+1 to more clarity. I'm not convinced that RAI is that you would take it multiple times for each attack as opposed to an attack type. The wording in some of the other evolutions is very explicit about whether it can be taken more than once.

That said I think the tentacle evolution should possibly be bumped to a 2 pt evolution since it doesn't have the pre-reqs that things like tail slap and claws do.

[Maezer]

Petrus222 wrote:

I'm not convinced that RAI is that you would take it multiple times for each attack as opposed to an attack type.

I am unsure as well as far as intention goes. As written I think the single attack appears to be correct, but it does seem to be needlessly awkward. I'd also like to see reach with size increase clarified.

Petrus222 wrote:

That said I think the tentacle evolution should possibly be bumped to a 2 pt evolution since it doesn't have the pre-reqs that things like tail slap and claws do.

It would then be strickly worse than a tail + tail slap (bigger damage die) or tail + sting (primary rather than secondary). I find the tentacle as written to be pretty compare able to extra limb (arms) being used to gaining extra off-hand attacks. Personally I think slam got the shotest end of the attack option stick but I can find some redemption even in it.