Arcane bond allows a wizard to choose between a familiar and a bonded item. Likewise, a summoner should be allowed to choose between a creature-shaped eidolon (biped, quadruped, or serpentine) or an item-shaped eidolon (specifically a weapon).
The option of having a weapon-shaped eidolon would allow the summoner to fill either of two different niches. Either he could be the pet guy that he is now, having an eidolon that runs around, fighting on his behalf. Or he could be the front-line melee arcanist (a.k.a. "gish"), with an eidolon that he wields as an inanimate - but intelligent, living, and powerful - weapon.
Adding this option to double the number of archetypes covered by the summoner class would require minimal additional word count for such a large payoff. Define a new 'weapon' eidolon shape that has null Strength and Dexterity. Note that weapon-shaped eidolons cannot take evolutions that add limbs. Note that any evolution which would improve a weapon-shaped eidolon's natural attacks instead improved all attacks made wielding that eidolon as a weapon.
That's about all that would be needed. Do something along those lines and you now have a summoner class that can support both 'pet guy' builds and so-called 'gish' builds.
wow, thats a totally different concept and would need a totally different eidolon rules. Your not talking small change but total rewrite of the eidolon.
A player wanting a summoned weapon would probably be better off playing a soulknife, especially if you add the ability to gain a sentient one, similar to a psycrystal.
A player wanting a summoned weapon would probably be better off playing a soulknife, especially if you add the ability to gain a sentient one, similar to a psycrystal.
That class is stone cold terrible. Presumably, people want a class that works.
A player wanting a summoned weapon would probably be better off playing a soulknife, especially if you add the ability to gain a sentient one, similar to a psycrystal.
That class is stone cold terrible. Presumably, people want a class that works.
wow, thats a totally different concept and would need a totally different eidolon rules. Your not talking small change but total rewrite of the eidolon.
Actually, most evolutions would work fine with a weapon-shaped eidolon. It's an eidolon like any other, just with null Strength, null Dexterity, and no limbs.
It still has hit points, natural armor, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, feats, skills, the ability to take evolutions such as those granting spell-like abilities, improved attacks, fast healing, better armor, better stats. It still counts as a creature, and cannot be enchanted as an item (relying instead on evolutions, since its an immobile outsider, not a lifeless object).
Same rules as other eidolons. It just happens to fill a different niche. (The summoner picks it up and hits people with it instead of asking it to hit other people of its own accord.)
That would be a completelly different class in my belief. The Eidolon is VERY powerfull, and there is no weapon in PF (short of artifacts)that would fill his whole completelly, unless u change the class altogheter giving it a Full BAB and D10 as stated earlier.
It's a VERY good idea, I do like it, but I see no viable way of introducing it to the Eidolon as it is now.
That would be a completelly different class in my belief. The Eidolon is VERY powerfull, and there is no weapon in PF (short of artifacts)that would fill his whole completelly...
Note that I'm not suggesting that the eidolon be replaced with something that isn't an eidolon. I'm suggesting that the eidolon be allowed to have the shape of a weapon. It's still an intelligent, living outsider that advances using the eidolon table and through the purchase of evolutions. It just happens to looks like (and be usable as) a weapon.
That would be a completelly different class in my belief. The Eidolon is VERY powerfull, and there is no weapon in PF (short of artifacts)that would fill his whole completelly...
Note that I'm not suggesting that the eidolon be replaced with a weapon. I'm suggesting that the eidolon be shaped like a weapon. It's still an outsider that advances using the eidolon table and by purchasing evolutions, it just happens to looks like (and be usable as) a weapon.
Still thinking that is a whole other beast right there
A player wanting a summoned weapon would probably be better off playing a soulknife, especially if you add the ability to gain a sentient one, similar to a psycrystal.
That class is stone cold terrible. Presumably, people want a class that works.
You might want to take a look at this version then:
[URL=http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=738.html]
Although, they will appearantly get a fighter BAB in the beta release.
I do understand that, but it's inviable in my belief for several reasons. First, when u hit something like a Balor, it would take damage from the fire for instance. Second, it would not attack on it's own, cause you would be holding it, and u could not attack with it, and it attack as well, except if it had tentacles or the like which would be odd.
You would pretty much throw away the ability to change plaes with it and to comune with it.
The way you are saying it's like taking a GUY with improvised weapons and hit someone else with "him" it would be grappled somehow and be unable to use it's abilities (vigorous motion or the like for spells) and they wouldn't extend to his bearer.
So unless it is some kind of "dancing WEAPON" I really don't see a way
Surely for now you can have an Eidolon that looks like a weapon.
Serpentine base form, Flight (Su), no limbs, a slash attack (say it is a sword, you simply change the bite damage type to slashing, and you can improve it), plus size increases and any other thing you may want to add. A flying-around intelligent sword. If size is appropriate and you are proficient you could even wield it, or just pretend that you're wielding it while your hand only follows the Eidolon's swirlings.
As I mentioned on another thread (which Epic Meepo picked up on and reincarnated into it's own thread), I think a weapon form would work fine. The one change I'd make is to allow evolution points to be spent on weapon magic abilities (for the ones that aren't already part of the evolution list). So, spend say 3 points per +1 ability strength to give your weapon eidolon keen, ghost touch, etc. You could also add a few weapon specific evolutions, such as hardness, MW quality, etc.
In addition, once you can afford the flight without wings option, that would effectively allow you to have your eidolon act as an animated weapon as well.
You would need some small amount of additional rules, such as letting a summoner wielding their eidolon to use it's BAB instead of the summoner's, and which evolution powers wouldn't work in this base form, but other than that, it should work just fine.
I think this would be another/alternate way to represent intelligent weapons.
As I mentioned on another thread (which Epic Meepo picked up on and reincarnated into it's own thread), I think a weapon form would work fine.
Come to think of it, I probably should have stopped by your old post to mention that I was expanding one of your suggestions into it own thread. But no matter. You've found your way here.
JoelF847 wrote:
The one change I'd make is to allow evolution points to be spent on weapon magic abilities (for the ones that aren't already part of the evolution list). So, spend say 3 points per +1 ability strength to give your weapon eidolon keen, ghost touch, etc. You could also add a few weapon specific evolutions, such as hardness, MW quality, etc.
Actually, those would be awesome evolutions for any eidolon, biped, quadruped, serpent, or weapon. "Each of the eidolon's natural attacks gain X magic weapon property." Added to the suggested wording for weapon eidolons from the OP, this would work for attacks with a weapon eidolon as well as natural attacks made by creature eidolons.
Surely for now you can have an Eidolon that looks like a weapon.
Serpentine base form, Flight (Su), no limbs, a slash attack (say it is a sword, you simply change the bite damage type to slashing, and you can improve it), plus size increases and any other thing you may want to add. A flying-around intelligent sword. If size is appropriate and you are proficient you could even wield it, or just pretend that you're wielding it while your hand only follows the Eidolon's swirlings.
A very clever idea, and technically legal using the RAW (except for the part about house ruling the bite into something else). However, it suffers from the same problem as trying to build a non-Performing spontaneous caster using the bard class.
Spoiler:
Say, for roleplaying reasons, I want to create a character who spontaneously casts bard spells, but doesn't ever engage in any sort of performance. Technically, I can do this with the bard class. However, in order to match the character concept using the only the bard class, I must choose to never use many of my character's class abilities.
Because the bard class doesn't quite match the character concept, I am forced to intentionally forfeit the use of many class features meant to keep the class balanced. I would be much better off building a sorcerer, who better fits the concept, and picking as many bard spells as possible as his spells known.
Same trouble when you try to build a weapon-like eidolon using the serpentine eidolon shape. In order to match the character concept of a summoner who personally wields his eidolon as a weapon, I must choose to never use a large number of abilities that a serpentine eidolon gets (namely, the ability to attack without being wielded by anyone).
Because the serpentine eidolon doesn't quite match the character concept, I am forced to intentionally forfeit the use of many eidolon abilities meant to keep the eidolon balanced. I would be much better off building an eidolon whose shape actually was that of an inanimate weapon, and whose powers were balanced with that specific role in mind.
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