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I haven't had a chance to playtest this yet, but i am a little concerned about the summoner's spell list being a little too powerful. Running into similar balance problems as with a Players Handbook 2 class the Duskblade, where it only got up to 5th level spells, but there were 8th level wizard spells on that list.
Now, yes the bard has similar "higher level spells on lower level slots" type of list, and of course by the level he achieves these spells it is on par with the full on caster.
However, this list is aimed a little more towards buffing (especially his eidolon), and these types of spells can be the most powerful. Sense these spells do not require saves, the lower-level(ness) of these spells is not a down side. An example is Haste is a 2nd level spell, greater invisibility 3rd level, and teleport circle as a 6th level spell.
just curious if anyone else notice this, or feels this way.
I haven't had a chance to playtest this yet, but i am a little concerned about the summoner's spell list being a little too powerful. Running into similar balance problems as with a Players Handbook 2 class the Duskblade, where it only got up to 5th level spells, but there were 8th level wizard spells on that list.
Now, yes the bard has similar "higher level spells on lower level slots" type of list, and of course by the level he achieves these spells it is on par with the full on caster.
However, this list is aimed a little more towards buffing (especially his eidolon), and these types of spells can be the most powerful. Sense these spells do not require saves, the lower-level(ness) of these spells is not a down side. An example is Haste is a 2nd level spell, greater invisibility 3rd level, and teleport circle as a 6th level spell.
just curious if anyone else notice this, or feels this way.
So far I'm not too worried about the spell list being too powerful (just started playtesting today though). The Summoner has a ton of standard actions to keep himself busy and I fear combat would be long over before Summoners can do anything overly amazing with their spell list (and they don't have the versitily of swift action spells like the other casters with undefined spell lists have).
My only problem that I've seen so far with the spell list is a lack of variation from summoner to summoner. We have two summoners in our party and there's not a lot to tell us apart so far (yes our pets can be very different but they all still do the same thing as far as a combat role goes). Yes I agree with most people that this is a specialty class meant to do one thing and some would argue that it's the only reason to play the class, but the short spell list is something I would expect from a prestige class rather than a base class.
I know a lot of people would disagree with me but still I still would argue that the class has a lot less variation than your standard class (mostly because of the spell list). I'd love to see some less powerful utility spells appear on the list or even offer a "bonus spell" type of class feature every 5 levels or so to aid in "combat role variation." The spell-like ability that you can take from your pets Evolution points is the best attempt at this so far.
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I haven't had a chance to playtest this yet, but i am a little concerned about the summoner's spell list being a little too powerful. Running into similar balance problems as with a Players Handbook 2 class the Duskblade, where it only got up to 5th level spells, but there were 8th level wizard spells on that list.
Now, yes the bard has similar "higher level spells on lower level slots" type of list, and of course by the level he achieves these spells it is on par with the full on caster.
However, this list is aimed a little more towards buffing (especially his eidolon), and these types of spells can be the most powerful. Sense these spells do not require saves, the lower-level(ness) of these spells is not a down side. An example is Haste is a 2nd level spell, greater invisibility 3rd level, and teleport circle as a 6th level spell.
just curious if anyone else notice this, or feels this way.
There are a few problems with the spell list, but the same goes for bards (who have some of the best buffing spells in the game) and paladins (who have, among other things, lesser restoration as a first level spell).
The list might need a few adjustment, though (to bring its buffing spells on par with those of bards).
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There are a few problems with the spell list, but the same goes for bards (who have some of the best buffing spells in the game) and paladins (who have, among other things, lesser restoration as a first level spell).I haven't had a chance to playtest this yet, but i am a little concerned about the summoner's spell list being a little too powerful. Running into similar balance problems as with a Players Handbook 2 class the Duskblade, where it only got up to 5th level spells, but there were 8th level wizard spells on that list.
Now, yes the bard has similar "higher level spells on lower level slots" type of list, and of course by the level he achieves these spells it is on par with the full on caster.
However, this list is aimed a little more towards buffing (especially his eidolon), and these types of spells can be the most powerful. Sense these spells do not require saves, the lower-level(ness) of these spells is not a down side. An example is Haste is a 2nd level spell, greater invisibility 3rd level, and teleport circle as a 6th level spell.
just curious if anyone else notice this, or feels this way.
Paladins get it at fourth level which is one level after clerics. By that time the cleric can already prepare it, and a paladin would only prepare it if he felt like lightening the clerics burden during a campaign like Curse of the Crimson Throne.
The list might need a few adjustment, though (to bring its buffing spells on par with those of bards).
I'd say test it out, check to see when the summoner gets second level spells. If its level 5 or around there, then it might not be a problem.
4th Level? Not terribly breaking the game. It might be annoying but in a level it rebounds back.