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The summoner is a charisma-based character, but can't make full use of most iconic charisma-based skills, such as Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate. Meanwhile, his eidolon can actually take those as skills.
Just a suggestion, but why not add in one of the social skills for the summoner? Bluff fits with the idea that the summoner is adept with dealing with extraplanar creatures such as devils and demons, and is probably a skill that anyone who has a snarling extraplanar squid-wolf would probably use frequently, while diplomacy fits in better with planar binding, and intimidate - well, intimidate doesn't make much sense.
If the # of class skills is an issue, maybe Use Magic Device should be the one to go - it doesn't seem to have much of a connection with his other abilities, despite being a powerful and useful skill. Both skills allow the summoner to fulfill another role in the party - UMD can give him minor healing, while social skills would let him act as the "party face."
The summoner is a charisma-based character, but can't make full use of most iconic charisma-based skills, such as Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate. Meanwhile, his eidolon can actually take those as skills.
Just a suggestion, but why not add in one of the social skills for the summoner? Bluff fits with the idea that the summoner is adept with dealing with extraplanar creatures such as devils and demons, and is probably a skill that anyone who has a snarling extraplanar squid-wolf would probably use frequently, while diplomacy fits in better with planar binding, and intimidate - well, intimidate doesn't make much sense.
If the # of class skills is an issue, maybe Use Magic Device should be the one to go - it doesn't seem to have much of a connection with his other abilities, despite being a powerful and useful skill. Both skills allow the summoner to fulfill another role in the party - UMD can give him minor healing, while social skills would let him act as the "party face."
I agree. We have two summoners in the game I'm playing in and we went out of our way to take different spells/skills/feats, but out of the box our characters are still virtually the same as far as party role goes. I think introducing social skills could give a little more individuality from summoner to summoner (beyond that of just roleplaying your character different).
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The summoner is a charisma-based character, but can't make full use of most iconic charisma-based skills, such as Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate. Meanwhile, his eidolon can actually take those as skills.
Just a suggestion, but why not add in one of the social skills for the summoner? Bluff fits with the idea that the summoner is adept with dealing with extraplanar creatures such as devils and demons, and is probably a skill that anyone who has a snarling extraplanar squid-wolf would probably use frequently, while diplomacy fits in better with planar binding, and intimidate - well, intimidate doesn't make much sense.
If the # of class skills is an issue, maybe Use Magic Device should be the one to go - it doesn't seem to have much of a connection with his other abilities, despite being a powerful and useful skill. Both skills allow the summoner to fulfill another role in the party - UMD can give him minor healing, while social skills would let him act as the "party face."
I'd suggest getting rid of Handle Animal over UMD, honestly. The eidolon doesn't count as an animal and his studies of the arcane arts are a perfectly reason to have UMD. I can see him using Handle Animal for some of his summons, but after the lower summon monster spells you probably aren't going to be summoning a lot of animals.
One of the great things about pathfinder is it doenst have to be a class skill anymore. You want diplomacy, take diplomacy, with a high charisma you will be as good as a character who doesnt have one and has it as a class skill. Its no longer a 'whats the point' situation with non-class skills. So really class skills shouldnt be about what ought to be available but what should they be really good at.
I would also give 4 skills to the summoner. The class should be good at social, and doesn't have the int of a wizard to make up for the lack of skill points.
I would also give 4 skills to the summoner. The class should be good at social, and doesn't have the int of a wizard to make up for the lack of skill points.
Already mentioned this almost word for word!
Great minds?The Summoner needs it, played one in a game and frankly it was boring.
Seems like it was ignored in the summoner update. When I playtested the the new classes the summoner player was pretty unhappy about his skills.
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I'd suggest getting rid of Handle Animal over UMD, honestly. The eidolon doesn't count as an animal and his studies of the arcane arts are a perfectly reason to have UMD. I can see him using Handle Animal for some of his summons, but after the lower summon monster spells you probably aren't going to be summoning a lot of animals.
Exactly, Handle Animal is there for his summons since Celestial/Fiendish no longer gives 3 INT. It should stay. If he's not going to be better at summoning than the conjurer, he could at least be better at controlling his summons.
I love UMD, but I admit I can't see why the summoner gets it. Perhaps so that they can use scrolls of spells off their list if they're the party's primary arcane caster?
My summoner is hurting for skill points bad, but she was an int-based caster before being rebuilt -- if I was making a new summoner from scratch I just wouldn't try to make them knowledgeable.
Then again, the Summoner needs an extra skill on top of those needed by most casters (Handle Animal) and arguably should have some knowledge skills to know about all these creatures they're summoning (Especially Planes since the eidolon is an outsider, they must have studied a lot to contact the thing?). So I can certainly see giving the Summoner more skill points. 4 + Int would probably do it, 6 + Int is the realm of the bard, less skillfull rogues, and super-knowledgeable people like the Cloistered Cleric.