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The spell Silent Image is generally considered to be pretty much awesome sauce, so here's a place to spill all the cool things you've done with it (either as a GM or player).
Some things are just basic (like covering the pit trap with a "floor" or making a fake pit trap). What all have you done with this versatile spell?
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My personal favorites I've done myself so far are:
A complete duplicate of the party while we hid in an invisibility sphere watching for the inevitable ambush (this was a major image though since I did include sound).
Yelling, "you watch our backs, I'll disintegrate the bridge!" then using silent image to make it appear that I had just destroyed the bridge (keeping a couple ogres at bay with my awesome bluff check).
The image of a boulder around yourself.
My personal favorite was back when I was playing my bard. We were facing down a powerful fire sorceress and didn't have access to fire immunity. Instead, the bard lit the party on fire with silent image and used a mad bluff check to convince her we were immune to fire.
Good times.
Silent Image yourself invisible. The Image is simple, you are just not there. Useful if you're raiding a room and don't want to be seen.
Technically you can't use a figment to make something dissapear.
Try this:
Use Silent image to place a Wall of Smoke or Fog in front of the party.
If your party knows the Wall is an illusion, then they can see through it and can rain arrows or other ranged attacks through the wall.
However, since the enemy doesn't get a saving throw until they interact with the wall, they have to approach the wall (eating arrows and the like) so they can interact with it and get a saving throw - taking melee attacks through the wall at that time.
Our party snuck into a dragon lair that was in a cave, in the side of a cliff overlooking the ocean. The dragon was out at the time, raiding a ship (its particular hobby). We noted deep furrows in the floor of the cave, indicating that the dragon liked to fly into his lair at speed, apparently being a bit of a thrill seeker.
So, my Illusionist used Silent Image to make the entrance of the cave appear about 20' off to one side. Spent a good amount of time with his raven familiar observing from outside to get the details right.
Dragon returns, and flies himself into the cliff face at a full dive. Yay for no save until interacted with. :D
DM rolled high for damage, ruled that it was either stunned or paralyzed (dragon's necks aren't well designed to take that kind of impact), so it took further damage falling to the rocks below. One flying Barbarian and two rounds later and it was most sincerely dead.
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Sorcerer: "I invoke the Rite of Ashk Ente! I bind the silent form of Death himself to do my bidding and destroy my enemies!" (Remember kids, Sorcerers have high charisma for "selling" illusions with Bluff to those stupid 1st level mooks!) A roiling mist flows outwards, in the centre of it is the robed hooded form of death, silently floating towards the enemy menacing them with its scythe.
Illusions are a bit funny, because of the significant gray areas in between the different spells. Your GM really dictates the latitude you would have here. Some examples based on the above posts:
The OP mentioned silent image to cover a pit trap and yet that is the description of Illusory Wall, a 4th level spell. So... can silent image actual do that? It doesn't say it can't, but then why do I need illusory wall?
The dragon cave idea, while very cool, really sounds to me like a job for hallucinatory terrain, another 4th level spell. I'm not sure if silent image can cover that since it is actually making something appear like it is not there with another something in its place.
The maze example is a difficult one as well, probably better handled by one of the above mentioned 4th level spells, but even then it isn't an impossible maze or anything remotely similar to a maze spell. Rather it is an illusion of a physical maze someone could conceivably walk through (even if it has no exit).
A couple of the examples also replicate things more effectively performed with the shadow conjuration spells - such as the force cage example. Can a silent image really replicate a force cage to the extent that you have your opponents throwing disintegrate spells?
I don't know the answers to all of these necessarily but it seems to me that some of these are expanding the limits of a silent (or minor or major) image spell.
As a DM myself, I find this spell can be interesting to rule on.
I generally allow a lot of flexibility for Silent Image with one qualifier... "It cannot mimic an effect of spells of a higher level than it". That tends to take care of most of the problem situations.
Mostly, Silent Image is best for stationary or rather unassuming illusions that do not draw allot of attention. Rather "ordinary" kinds of things.
As a DM myself, I find this spell can be interesting to rule on.
I generally allow a lot of flexibility for Silent Image with one qualifier... "It cannot mimic an effect of spells of a higher level than it". That tends to take care of most of the problem situations.
Mostly, Silent Image is best for stationary or rather unassuming illusions that do not draw allot of attention. Rather "ordinary" kinds of things.
Agreed. It's really good for things like making an image of a bridge over a stream, or adding some bushes right where you need them.
If it duplicates a higher level spell, then you need to use the higher level spell.
One thing that annoys me is that Major Image specifically vanishes if interacted with by an enemy, and Silent Image doesn't. I usually rule both do. Then it doesn't matter if you use silent or major image to 'cover a pit' because it disappears when someone falls through it, unlike Ilusory Wall.
How do you illusion enthusiasts avoid your enemies making spellcraft checks to know which spell just cast?
How do you illusion enthusiasts avoid your enemies making spellcraft checks to know which spell just cast?
Usually this isnt going to work on an opposing spellcaster (they often have good will saves as well), but most good uses of an illusion require the illusion to be set BEFORE the enemy is there. The few instances here where people have pointed out occassions where they used an illusion in front of someone they generally indicated a bluff check went along with it, meaning if the enemy spellcaster probably wouldnt have made the spellcraft check in the first place if he fell for the bluff.
How do you illusion enthusiasts avoid your enemies making spellcraft checks to know which spell just cast?
Never cast them when they can see them is the main point, use them as setup.
Alternately, you bluff to distract the enemies, so they are busy doing something else instead of paying attention to your casting. You can only identify a spell if you can 'clearly see it being cast'.
Honestly, this is a great use of silent image, as cover for casting spells. It's an image between you and them that makes you hard (or impossible) to see, and thus can negate their ability to id your spells by spellcraft.
As you are the one that cast it, you can see through it (although you might have trouble id'ing their spells, it being something that still blocks your sight to some extent).
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How do you illusion enthusiasts avoid your enemies making spellcraft checks to know which spell just cast?
If you have access to 3.5 splatbooks, Skill Tricks (from Complete Scoundrel) like Conceal Spellcasting and False Theurgy are particularly handy here. They do require you to put skill ranks in Sleight of Hand, though.
So, my Illusionist used Silent Image to make the entrance of the cave appear about 20' off to one side.Would have to be one heck of an illusion. I imagine a dragon, particularly one that comes and goes often enough, would know the look and feel and "landing approach" of his lair pretty well, being able to do it almost blind. The sheer AoE needed to pull this off is mind-boggling.
Otherwise, way to go, Wile E.
FWIW,
Rez
Thanks. Yeah, the Illusionist was 12th level or so at the time, so lots of 10' cubes to work with. The entrance was just big enough for the dragon and no more. I specifically put the illusionary entrance to the side rather than above or below because I figured it would be easier to notice the change since the ocean or the top of the cliff provides a frame of reference. That's also why I had my raven familiar coaching me from the outside while I refined the illusion, to make sure I got it right. Even with all of that, the DM did make a couple of rolls behind the screen (I assume they were Spot or Intelligence checks, something along those lines), and the dragon fell for it regardless. Maybe I was lucky, I dunno. It was still cool though. :)
As for hallucinatory terrain... yeah I can see your point there. I might not even allow this if I were the DM. This particular DM was a little loosey-goosey with Illusions when he used them against us (illusory fireballs, not Shadow Evocation ones either, doing non-lethal damage that we didn't know was non-lethal until we woke up), so I figured it was fair game. :P
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I see a lot of people here using silent image in the wrong way. You can only overlay ontop of existing things. You can't make holes in things appear (Hole in wall, Pit in ground) and you can't make things invisible. You also can't create an illusion of the bridge being destroyed. The closest you can get is immenent destruction, like flames on it or a giant boulder rolling down about to crash onto it.
As xiN. pointed out to me - think of Silent Image as a hologram that you place somewhere. If you create the illusion of a hole with silent image and put it on the ground, the ground itself isn't vanished by the hologram. So although there is a hologram of a hole, a normal person wont be able to see it due to the ground in the way of the hologram.
The best you can do with silent image is the *painting* of a hole that is drawn on the ground. Which might be very convincing from a particular angle, but since its 2D it would be easy to tell once the observer moves.
If they want to get REALLY detailed, I would require a Craft - Drawing / Painting roll.
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Yes, you are adding an effect when you create a hole. You paint on the image of a hole, which changes depending on what angle you are looking at. Any other interpretation would make ALL illusions 2-D, which is clearly not the intent.
That is really stretching it. I can see how a wizard could come up with a 2D optical illusion if he spends time creating the illusion under no threat. This would be from one point in space.
What your suggesting is that he can create an illusion and then shape this intricate 2D image to reflect the 3D image he wants the viewer to see. All this in realtime. This would be VERY hard, if not impossible to achieve. At the very least this should give an save every round. And obviously would only work for one creature, not a group.
As for making things disappear, you have to be really REALLY creative to make that work. For the bridge, if this was a dark cavern, then coloring the bridge to blend in with the background might make the bridge seem to disappear (think Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).
Once again would only work from one point of view. And The wizard needs to be at that point of view if he is to guess what colour he has to change the bridge into, to make it blend in.
An illusion of a tree all around you makes you "dissapear" just the same.
Yes, thats true and works well, but it's not what the poster suggested. He wants to create an empty space where he was, which cannot be done.
Basically, illurions like Silent Image are more about adding in things meant to decieve. Yes, you won't fall into an illusory pit, but you might want to walk around it, and if that was the point, the illusion succeeded.
The more I think about it the more absurd it sounds. You just can't create a 2D image of a pit that dynamically changes to suit the viewpoint of the observer (singular). I would never allow it if I was DM. I'm also pretty sure that it wasn't what they intended with silent image.
Through your theory you can just do the following. Create boxes around people that follow them. These boxes simulate a virtual world that you trap your victims in.
Yes, you are adding an effect when you create a hole. You paint on the image of a hole, which changes depending on what angle you are looking at. Any other interpretation would make ALL illusions 2-D, which is clearly not the intent.That is really stretching it. I can see how a wizard could come up with a 2D optical illusion if he spends time creating the illusion under no threat. This would be from one point in space.
I'm confused, where in the spell does it state that you can only create 2D images? It only says they don't contain noise, only images.
Silent Image
School illusion (figment); Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a bit of fleece)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect visual figment that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration concentration
Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with); Spell Resistance noThis spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.
And, nothing under Illusion or Figment says it's a 2D image either.
IllusionIllusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).
Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
A figment's AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.
However, the italicized bit above would seem to indicate you can't make a person look like a tree with a figment, nor can you make a bridge appear not there. You can make a bridge appear to be on fire, or a person on fire, using a figment, or you can make a second, fake bridge, next to the real one (requiring a check to see if they pick the right one). You could, however, make an image in front of something and thus block the thing you are hiding (like an image of a wall in front of you, hiding you).
Honestly, it seems like the wording, now that I've reread it, seems to make figments very very hard to use for anything other than ambush traps or distractions (like setting up an orc camp in the cave to fool people chasing you).
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The more I think about it the more absurd it sounds. You just can't create a 2D image of a pit that dynamically changes to suit the viewpoint of the observer (singular). I would never allow it if I was DM.Can you create the illusion of a dog? The dog is 3D, can be viewed from other locations by multiple people, and is totally within the confimes of the spell, IMHO.
Yes
Stretch this one further. Can you create the illusion of an MC Escher painting? His paintings rely on perspective, specifically, bending said perspective to alter the perceptions of the mind (i.e. the everflowing waterfall).
Yes
Now one further. Can you create the illusion of the popular 3D nested pyramids? These can either be seen as protruding from the paper or falling away, depending on your perspective.
Can you give me a link or pic of this?
You see, illusions don't even have to be magical to fool the eye. And touching the illution IRL automatically results in a successful save (unless touching it IS part of the illusion...)
I agree...
Now we have magic. Why can't a 2D image fool those looking at it that it is really a 3D image? To be clear, I am NOT advocating that you can make people disappear. Like the tree example, you can fool them into not looking, or seeing something different, like David Copperfield, but actually vanishing is for the Invisibility spell.
If you look at a one of those MC Escher paintings in real life do you know that it is a 2D image? Similarly if you create a 2D plane with a 3D image, all the viewers will know that it is a flat plane, even if they can see the 3D image and judge the depth and whatever it represents.
The only way to fool somebody into thinking a 2D plane is not just a plane, is by having the picture on that plane blend in seamlessly with the environment behind it, from one viewers point of view. That is the limit to what can be achieved.
This is kind of hard to explain and I'm thinking I need to make a picture to clarify.
BUT, fooling the eyes into thinking the bridge is gone by masking the bridge works just fine, IMO.
Yes this could work. But you would have to set up this illusion beforehand, and it would only work from one viewpoint, or a set of points very close to each other or along the same path. A viewer looking from the side would see those same "masks" and it would look very suspect.
And if you DID create boxes around people to make them think they had been transported, then they would walk forward, encounter the illusion, and save or no, walk through.
I did say that they would move with the people. And if they walked out of the range of the illusion they would obviously encounter the illusion, but that is irrelevant anyways. The point is that the victim would recognise it for what it is.
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Yes, you are adding an effect when you create a hole. You paint on the image of a hole, which changes depending on what angle you are looking at. Any other interpretation would make ALL illusions 2-D, which is clearly not the intent.That is really stretching it. I can see how a wizard could come up with a 2D optical illusion if he spends time creating the illusion under no threat. This would be from one point in space.
I'm confused, where in the spell does it state that you can only create 2D images? It only says they don't contain noise, only images.
Silent Image
School illusion (figment); Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a bit of fleece)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect visual figment that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration concentration
Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with); Spell Resistance noThis spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.
And, nothing under Illusion or Figment says it's a 2D image either.
...
IllusionIllusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can.
We are not saying it has to be 2D. We are saying that you can create 3D illusions (like a hologram). If however you want to create a hole into something, like a cave in a wall or a pit in the ground with a figment. The only way we can think of is creating a 2D image on said surface, and having that image represent a 3D volume.
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Let's suppose that a wall is created with this spell and then an opponent touches it and fails his saving throw. It is just a figment, so his hand passes right through it. It doesn't make sense that someone would continue to believe that the wall still exists even though his hand just passed through a stone wall. I realize that it is a magic spell, but is this how you would handle this type of interaction? Should the saving throw occur before he actually touches it? Perhaps as he approaches it and gets a closer look?
Thanks.
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Let's suppose that a wall is created with this spell and then an opponent touches it and fails his saving throw. It is just a figment, so his hand passes right through it. It doesn't make sense that someone would continue to believe that the wall still exists even though his hand just passed through a stone wall. I realize that it is a magic spell, but is this how you would handle this type of interaction? Should the saving throw occur before he actually touches it? Perhaps as he approaches it and gets a closer look?
Thanks.
Interaction is not defined absolutely. I can give you my interpretation of what the sage said in "All about Illusions" on the WOTC website.
Basically the person has to spend an action interacting with the illusion.
So if he spends a move action studying it, he would get a saving throw. If he spends a standard action poking or touching it, he would probably get an auto success.
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So, refrencing the illusions above, it is certainly possible for us munadne mortals to create very convincing illusions. With magic, even more should be possible.
Your logic is slightly flawed in that those illusions don't fool anybody into thinking they are real.
And, yes, it would need to be expertly done, and there is a chance the imperfections could be spotted (that's what the will save is for).
I just can't wrap my head around it. Lets take that 2D illusion I gave the link of. How many people on earth can do that convincingly? very few. And that is a static image that probably takes a week to make.
What you are suggesting is that the wizard can stand on the side and modify that picture to change to the viewpoint of the victim in real time. This is certainly possible, but how incredibly difficult must this not be? I just can't see how anybody short of a god could be capable of this.
However, it doesn't seem to be impossible that you cause opponents to think it's real, they then believe it's real, and unless they directly interract with it or take a round to study it, it just becomes accepted that it IS real, and they react accordingly.
Opponent. It can only be done against one observer.
Masking a bridge is at the very limits of what I think Silent Image can do, but putting a hole in the ground is trivially easy.
Trivially easy?
Let me just get this straight. Are we still talking about the same thing here? you are agreeing with me that to create this hole, you create a flat picture on the ground of what appears to be a hole in the ground, when viewed from a certain point in space. Just like the nonmagical optical illusion.
And your saying that doing that, and having it change to adapt to the viewer's point of view is trivial?
I am getting the impression here that you have been using silent image in the past to make holes in things and to make things dissappear, and only now realise that it is not possible with a figment.
Okay, there seems to have been some confusion; these are the facts according to me and xiN.
Silent Image
- You can hide something, by overlaying it with something. For example, you can hide the halfling by creating the silent image of a tree over him.
- On the other hand, you cannot make the silent image of a halfling inside the tree - that is you can do it, but nobody would see the halfling, since he's inside the tree. (Or you can do it as a nasty surprise for a woodcutter :p)
- In the same way you cannot hide a halfling in a tree (and have him be perceivable) you cannot "create" a hole in the ground. You can create the silent image of a hole, and you can put that image into the ground - but it won't be seen, since the ground is in the way. (You could now dig out the hole to see the illusion, but that won't help much.)
- In contrast, it is easy to create the silent image of a carpet that happens to be over a hole, the hole wouldn't be seen except by creatures that make their saves or are similarly immune (or just fall down the hole and find out that way).
- Now, here's the part that created confusion before: you can create the 2D image of a hole on the ground - and this might fool someone; but this only works from one perspective and would have to be real-time adjusted to stay believable all the way through if the target moves (on top of requiring hard crafting DCs to make believable in the first place). Only one target could be made to believe it is real, since other targets have different perspectives and would see the distortions caused by the 2D image.
Apart from the facts as stated above the below parts are conjecture on my part:
The dynamic 2D option is difficult in the extreme, requiring an artist to make real-time (not per-round) updates to the 2D image from the perspective of the intended target (fooling a group of people this way wouldn't be possible, due to the differences in perspective). This would require continuous very high DC craft(painting) checks (I'd put it at 40) and at least one free save per round to disbelieve by the target (and the target gets a cumulative +1 bonus to its save versus that illusion). Additionally, I'd adjudicate that the caster is exhausted if she maintains such an illusion for more than 2 rounds; otherwise she's merely fatigued. Not really an option except for epic-level characters; preferably gods.
Alternatively, if we're talking about a long way away (hundred yards, depending on the size of the illusion) then the perspective changes are sufficiently small to allow one fixed 2D image to be quite effective for a group of people that are relatively near each other. You'd be able to convince a group of people that "over there is a cave in the mountain" or "the gate at the fortress is open". This illusion would work up to the point where the group gets a bit closer and the distortions become too apparent.
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- The silent image "kick me" sign is always good for a laugh.
- Putting an image of an open door in a stone wall and having your cleric buddy cast a fear/command spell to make a monster try and flee through it is fun.
- But the best use is as a distraction. for instance put a dead bodie or a pile of gore in the middle of a tavern room so you can sneak into the store room while everyone is distracted.
love,
malkav
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In a 2nd Ed adventure in the temple of crazyness, my adventurers started to climb spiral staircase until after 30 feet they reached a wall with writings
"Welcome you've reached the top of this illusionary stairs and managed to go up 30ft by the sheer force of your brain. Now you know that these stairs are illusions."
At that time you had to "fail" a roll under intelligence (13) or fall to the ground for 3D6 of damage.... :D
The barbarian never understood how his magic user friend disappeared and climbed down the stairs to find him unconscious at the bottom of the stairs.
Sometimes it's good to be dumb ;o)
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In a 2nd Ed adventure in the temple of crazyness, my adventurers started to climb spiral staircase until after 30 feet they reached a wall with writings
"Welcome you've reached the top of this illusionary stairs and managed to go up 30ft by the sheer force of your brain. Now you know that these stairs are illusions."At that time you had to "fail" a roll under intelligence (13) or fall to the ground for 3D6 of damage.... :D
The barbarian never understood how his magic user friend disappeared and climbed down the stairs to find him unconscious at the bottom of the stairs.
Sometimes it's good to be dumb ;o)
This wonderful. I may have to add it to a future dungeon for a good laugh.
love,
malkav
I don't have a link to the image, but when you fool peoples depth perception, you can make an illusion that looks 3D from a little over 180 degree angle. The illusionist can make the 2D image slightly convex to expand that illusion out, probably to about 270 degrees. It may look fake from HIS perspective, but it sure looks real from everyone ELSES.
I disagree; not with the principle but with the ease and degrees:
- These pictures not only require perspective but also focal distance to be within very specific and very narrow ranges. Even if you keep your angles the same it'll only look realistic at (say) 20 foot distance, but not at 2 foot distance. This is due to the fleeing perspective distortion at the peripherals of the image
- There is no "hole in the ground" type 2D picture that looks realistic over a 180 degree interval (or for that matter over 270 degrees)
- It can be real enough to fool over maybe a 30 degree arc - everyone else should get a (big) bonus to their saves
- It is not just the arc that is relevant over the horizontal plane, but also through (relative) elevation - essentially and collectively this means that anybody that was fooled gets another save whenever they move. For the purposes of 2D images "interaction" means as little as moving
- No matter how good you are, a 2D 5foot "hole" won't be convincing both at 1 and 10 feet away from the hole. Even less so for bigger holes
- No 2D "hole" at 5 foot or bigger is convincing at 1 foot away since at that distance just tilting the head will already deliver spatial inconsistency data
- The nature of the (static) spatial inconsistency means that anybody saving against it gets (growing) bonuses for each save they attempted previously against the image
- All this is to say that you can always try it - but it will rarely delay anyone more than 1 round. This may be completely sufficient for your purposes - but you certainly wont hold of a group of enemies for a minute with this
Optical illusions are not as easy to spot as you make out. Stage magicians routinely fool people fom multiple angles using light, smoke, and mirrors. Magic should be able to do more, since, as you say, very few people IRL can do it convincingly, and NOBODY can cast a 1st level wiz spell :P
First-level illusion magic, at best, can attempt to reach stage magic level. This is because it requires a lot of expense (both financially and in terms of time) to create these stage illusions. Additionally it requires specific viewing perspective and very limited interaction on part of the audience. No mere 12gp-cost spell is going to compete with this.
Now don't get me wrong, it is not that difficult to fool a mind for a moment; it is very difficult to fool a mind over a prolonged period of time - especially with the mind prodding at places it shouldn't. Toddlers a few months old, monkeys, parrots, etc have all been shown to figure out 2D illusions of the nature we're discussing.
Okay, there seems to have been some confusion; these are the facts according to me and xiN.
Along with most GMs, and the rules.
Now, here's the part that created confusion before: you can create the 2D image of a hole on the ground - and this might fool someone;
The example art shown of a fake hole in the ground took a skilled artist hours to craft... I find it unlikely that you could craft a convincing illusion like that in 6 seconds.
The rules specifically prohibit hiding things or creating holes, and it duplicates the effects of higher level spells so I just say no.
You could however create effects that would cause a similar aversion.