Would it be possible for a cleric to "Multi-Class" as a cleric of another deity? I'm thinking of a cleric who worships two gods of the same pantheon equally. Would that change their abilities in any way, or really just be a roleplaying thing? I was thinking that maybe you would double up on spells/powers, but not get the higher level powers you should if you had stayed single class. Does that break things too much?
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1) I'm pretty sure it's not allowed by the rules.
2) It wouldn't be a game breaker, particularly after 3rd Level. You'd get domain abilities, and a passel of 1st Level spells, and maybe, if you're clever and neutral on the good/evil axis, some variations on Channel Energy, but you'd lose a caster level.
3) If I were the Pathfinder GM, I'd allow it, but you'd have to specify which clergy is your favored class, and I'd make sure you were using the correct holy symbol.
I would suggest that you explore with your GM to see if the character could be a single class cleric but worship both gods equally.
Unless there is a reason why the character wants to be a multiclass cleric/cleric?
I'd allow it using the standard multiclassing rules, because you'd be absolutely the lamest daggone cleric of all time. At 8th level, your friends (Clr 8) are casting full restoration spells and trying out their nifty new domain powers... whereas you're lucky to field a pathetic lesser restoration, and are still using your 1st level domain powers (Clr 4/Clr 4).
1) I'm pretty sure it's not allowed by the rules.
2) It wouldn't be a game breaker, particularly after 3rd Level. You'd get domain abilities, and a passel of 1st Level spells, and maybe, if you're clever and neutral on the good/evil axis, some variations on Channel Energy, but you'd lose a caster level.
3) If I were the Pathfinder GM, I'd allow it, but you'd have to specify which clergy is your favored class, and I'd make sure you were using the correct holy symbol.
I'd probably allow it too, if the player can come up with a convincing story, and find a set of gods that wouldn't be put off by having "their" cleric moonlight.
But, I wouldn't allow the cleric levels from each of the gods to stack. Treat it like Cleric/Druid or Cleric/Wizard in that regard. They'd have separate spell slots for each deity and would need to declare which deity is being referenced when casting spells (when it matters).
For example Cleric of Erastil 4/Cleric of Iomedae 3, would cast CLW at CL 4 when using Erastil spell slots or CL 3 when using Iomedae spell slots. Not CL 7.
That would probably deter anyone from actually doing this.
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I certainly wouldn't allow it. Clerics and Paladins are supposed to be devoted to a god or an ideal. To stray from that god/ideal means your faith has come into question and they fall into the "Ex-" category. Not to mention the problem of high level healing.
HOWEVER..
If you're asking, if you have multiple gods whose faiths closely work together to fight common causes, whose deities even share the same plane/house/whatever and want to be devoted to their causes but not to a singular deity in the group, then the answer is yes, you can. The answer is yes because the issue is a ROLEPLAYING thing, not a mechanical thing.
So you're going to ask me, how do you reflect that on paper. It's simple. A cleric of "like-gods" should be built to be devoted to their alignment. This way they can champion the causes of those gods without the doctrine of their religious orders.
I'm going to use the Forgotten Realms as an example of this. Tyr, Torm, and Ilmater often work together. They're called the House of the Triad. Together they represent Justice, Guardians, and Heroic Martyrs. A lawful good cleric could be devoted to the ideals of all 3, but follow the doctrine of none of their orders.
But you might not know much about the House of Triad if you're not a Realms fan, so I'll take a more generic example...
The cleric of moridan has doctrine that keeps him from asking corellon for help while fighting orcs, while a lawful good cleric might ask corellon to help guide his arrow and three rounds later ask moridan to protect his allies.
Side note, even if you ignore all that, remember 7 cure light wounds means nothing at higher levels. Enemies hit harder, a multiple classed cleric doesn't have the cleric spells they need to keep up with the damage being done in 1 round.
Mechanically, as pointed out by others, it'd be a bit restrictive.
I would advise that you roleplay the worship of two or more deities. This depends on the setting, but I don't see why certain polytheistic races or cultures would have a problem with it. For example, in Elves of Golarion, its mentioned that elves often acknowledge and respect all their divinities. Elf clerics may even select their domains from those different deities.
I would allow it, but very very strongly advise against it. You'd be crippling your character.
I don't think I'd allow it, but that's because I don't like watching train wrecks...
One option would be to create a Cleric that follows a philosophy that has strong ties to the two churches/deities that you want. As long as the two deities are similar or at least get a long well I think that would work fluff/story wise. Your holy symbol could be an amalgam of the two deities respective symbols. For domains simply choose one from each that seem iconic to them.
Honestly, this seems more like a fluffy decision. But, at the same time I'd avoid multiclassing in the manner your suggesting. As others have suggested you'll cripple your character.
I suppose my question would be: Why isn't the character just a cleric of a pantheon of gods, with access to the domains of any god in the pantheon? Seems much easier and straightforward than trying to "multiclass" in a single class.
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under the rules as I read them for a cleric you dont need to follow a particular god & still get the domains by following your own belief so roleplay wise you could choose 2 domains say one from each god you wanted to follow & just say you follow both gods - the rules do say you have to get dm permission for the domains you want to choose & this would save you from multiclassing as a cleric/cleric
rule is on pg 40 and is quoted below -
"If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval). The restriction on alignment domains still applies."
I wanted to do this but my dm doesnt like the above rule & ruled a cleric had to follow one particular god
I think a better idea than multi-classing as Cleric/Cleric might be talking to the GM and work out taking a domain from each deity with both deities granting the non-domain spells. Same basic flavor without shooting yourself in the foot.
-Weylin
Yep, what I'd do is make sure the gods don't mind sharing a cleric. A good example (under 3.5 gods) might be an Elven cleric of Loretherian Corellean (sp?) and Ehlanna (who are husband and wife). I'd then allow the cleric to pick one domain from each god, and he'd be a cleric of both. More than likely, he'd not be able to carry too much rank in either gods physical churches, but would more than likely be a highly sought after go-between for the two churches, sort of like an half-elf being a highly sought after go-between between human and elf settlements. I don't think that would be at all unbalancing, although I would give him a small amount of grief over it too (having to special order holy symbols for example). ;)
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Now I'm picturing a Diabolist Cleric who serves the Lords of the Nine. At 1st level he takes Cleric of Asmodeus. At 2nd level, Cleric of Baalzebul. At 3rd level, Cleric of Barbatos. Then Belial. Then Dispater. Then Geryon. Then Mammom. Then Mephistopheles. Then Moloch. By 9th level, he's a Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1 / Cleric 1, and can Channel 1d6 negative energy bursts about 36 times a day and cast about 18 1st level spells a day (+9 domain spells from his 18 Domains), and has a BAB of +0 (unless he gets to use Fractional BAB, which he really hopes he can use, and will gladly accept Fractional Saves as well to tone down that +18 Fort / Will save!).
Other Clerics of his level are casting Raise Dead, he's like, 'I still have eleven Cure Light Wounds left, anyone need topping off?' While the Cleric next to him is brushing up on how to become CoDzilla, he's more like CoDzuki, bumbling around, unable to breathe fire.
I would never allow this, gods do not share. You are devoted to your god, not him and that guy over there.
With that said I would allow a cleric to worship a pathaion, or maybe husband/wife or brother/sister combos if it fit
I would never allow this, gods do not share.Not even the god of sharing?
He is actually pretending to share while secretly plotting to take everything that everyone owns. At least that is what he told me.
I would never allow this, gods do not share.Not even the god of sharing?
Not even then. Your giving someone a part of your power, he is spreading your faith and doctrine about. Even if the god of shearing might do it(damned unlikely) no other god would
Somethings ya don't share.
Again this is different in some cases where ya would worship all the gods in a panthion or 2 gods with shared dogma's but then your would be a cleric not a duel cleric
Not even then. Your giving someone a part of your power, he is spreading your faith and doctrine about. Even if the god of shearing might do it(damned unlikely) no other god would
Be careful worshiping the god of shearing, he cuts things mighty close when you get him riled up. ;)
Ah a foghorn leghorn reference. Hands the man a beer
Not even then. Your giving someone a part of your power, he is spreading your faith and doctrine about. Even if the god of shearing might do it(damned unlikely) no other god would
Somethings ya don't share.
Again this is different in some cases where ya would worship all the gods in a panthion or 2 gods with shared dogma's but then your would be a cleric not a duel cleric
Ah say, ah say, that was a joke, son, a joke!
Nice boy but iff'n he were a lightbulb ah'd change 'im.
Now Now Foghorn, nothin' to rile your feathers over. ;)
Closely allied deities would share, but it would be more of a loan of the cleric from one deity to another. For example, a cleric reaches level 3 while following his chosen god, then for whatever plot purpose calls for it, he gets loaned to another god that the first one works with. While working for this god, the characters becomes multi-classed and starts gaining separate levels with powers from the new god. Maybe it takes three levels to finish whatever quest required the loan of the character and he is now a multi-class CL3/CL3. He must now decide which god to continue to work for and then only gain levels from that god unless another loan happens. So I would say yes to multi-classing two separate cleric classes but no to actively following two gods at once and raising both clerical levels equally.
Yep, what I'd do is make sure the gods don't mind sharing a cleric. A good example (under 3.5 gods) might be an Elven cleric of Loretherian Corellean (sp?) and Ehlanna (who are husband and wife). I'd then allow the cleric to pick one domain from each god, and he'd be a cleric of both. More than likely, he'd not be able to carry too much rank in either gods physical churches, but would more than likely be a highly sought after go-between for the two churches, sort of like an half-elf being a highly sought after go-between between human and elf settlements. I don't think that would be at all unbalancing, although I would give him a small amount of grief over it too (having to special order holy symbols for example). ;)
I'm sorry, while I agree with the what you are saying, I just needed to correct your specific information. As someone who played in the Greyhawk setting for a number of years with most of my characters being Elves who worshiped the deities you are referencing. Or at least I assume you mean Corellon Larethian and Ehlonna. The part that I particularly wanted to correct is that they those two deities are not related. Corellon is a member of the Elven pantheon, Ehlonna is not. I forget what plane of the Greyawk Cosmology the Seldarine is on, but I know it isn't the Beastlands, where Ehlonna resides. However, Corellon's consort (wife) is Sehanine Moonbow, she and Corellon are the creators of the elves. So using a similar analogy, if you were to use those two deities, the same thing could be worked out...
Sorry again for the sidetrack I just wanted to make the correction on a topic that I am fairly familiar with.
I'm sorry, while I agree with the what you are saying, I just needed to correct your specific information. As someone who played in the Greyhawk setting for a number of years with most of my characters being Elves who worshiped the deities you are referencing. Or at least I assume you mean Corellon Larethian and Ehlonna. The part that I particularly wanted to correct is that they those two deities are not related. Corellon is a member of the Elven pantheon, Ehlonna is not. I forget what plane of the Greyawk Cosmology the Seldarine is on, but I know it isn't the Beastlands, where Ehlonna resides. However, Corellon's consort (wife) is Sehanine Moonbow, she and Corellon are the creators of the elves. So using a similar analogy, if you were to use those two deities, the same thing could be worked out...Sorry again for the sidetrack I just wanted to make the correction on a topic that I am fairly familiar with.
LOL,
No issues. I mostly used the FR books for reference material for my games (I ruthlessly stole Eliesstre (I know, I can't spell it without the book here, and I'm at work) in nearly every game I've run in D&D.|
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However, Corellon's consort (wife) is Sehanine Moonbow, she and Corellon are the creators of the elves.
Retcons make me sad. "Oh hi, remember when Correlon was sole creator of the elven race, and kind of androgynous, being both father and mother of the elven peoples? <Demon lord pretending to be an elf goddess waves her hand.> Now you don't. Remember later how he married an elf-goddess named Araushalnee, and she betrayed him and became Lolth? No, I'm retconning that retcon, too. We only need one imposter goddess leading the elven race astray, after all. I'm changing the elven creation story, too. He just bled all over the place, it was me that gave souls to the shed blood and made it into elves, so calling him 'elven creator' is kind of like saying that sheep make sweaters, when all they do is mindlessly shed wool like mindless wool-shedding tools, which someone vastly smarter and more important than sheep comes along and makes into a sweater."
However, Corellon's consort (wife) is Sehanine Moonbow, she and Corellon are the creators of the elves.Retcons make me sad. "Oh hi, remember when Correlon was sole creator of the elven race, and kind of androgynous, being both father and mother of the elven peoples? <Demon lord pretending to be an elf goddess waves her hand.> Now you don't. Remember later how he married an elf-goddess named Araushalnee, and she betrayed him and became Lolth? No, I'm retconning that retcon, too. We only need one imposter goddess leading the elven race astray, after all. I'm changing the elven creation story, too. He just bled all over the place, it was me that gave souls to the shed blood and made it into elves, so calling him 'elven creator' is kind of like saying that sheep make sweaters, when all they do is mindlessly shed wool like mindless wool-shedding tools, which someone vastly smarter and more important than sheep comes along and makes into a sweater."
Actually, I was going by the Araushnee story, she betrayed Corellon during his fight with Gruumsh (which from what I know has been a vital building block of the rivalry between elves and orcs for a VERY long time). Towards the end of the fight, with Corellon losing, Sehanine's tears gave Corellon the strength to strike out with a well-placed attack that hit Gruumsh in the eye (also iconic). Afterwards, out of the soil that had soaked up his (Corellon's) blood and Sehanine's tears, he created the elves. So I guess I wasn't specific enough there, Corellon was the creator of the elves but Sehanine helped...
That story is just about the only one I have heard about the elves creation, the only part that has changed in even the slightest is the part with Sehanine's tears, which isn't an absolutely vital part of the story, I just like it because I had a character that was devoted to Sehanine :D
But my primary response there was that Ehlonna isn't related to Corellon at all, she isn't even a member of the Elven pantheon. She is equally worshiped by humans and elves and she is a nature goddess first and foremost (even if one of her aspects is an elven woman).
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You could have him follow several deities, but it does not change the fact that you cannot multiclass in the same class. The restriction for the Cleric class is on the 2 domains you have to choose and there is no way to bypass this within the basic class.
Ergo, your multi-deities Cleric would be a usual Cleric using the 2 domains you prefer and what and how he chooses to worship will be for rolepaying purpose only.
Would it be possible for a cleric to "Multi-Class" as a cleric of another deity? I'm thinking of a cleric who worships two gods of the same pantheon equally. Would that change their abilities in any way, or really just be a roleplaying thing? I was thinking that maybe you would double up on spells/powers, but not get the higher level powers you should if you had stayed single class. Does that break things too much?
By RAW no!
Multiclassing
Instead of gaining the abilities granted by the next level in
your character’s current class, he can instead gain the 1stlevel
abilities of a new class, adding all of those abilities
to his existing ones. This is known as “multiclassing.”
The rules state that multiclassing is done by taking levels in a new class. Cleric is only one class regardless of deity or domains. Just as sorcerer and wizard regardless of bloodline or school.
Or fighter regardless of bonus feats.You would not allow a 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter either, would you?
The rules support the concept of clerics without deities, which follow ideals in stead. The same rules work well with pantheistic / polytheistic clerics.
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Would it be possible for a cleric to "Multi-Class" as a cleric of another deity? I'm thinking of a cleric who worships two gods of the same pantheon equally. Would that change their abilities in any way, or really just be a roleplaying thing? I was thinking that maybe you would double up on spells/powers, but not get the higher level powers you should if you had stayed single class. Does that break things too much?By RAW no!
Multiclassing
Instead of gaining the abilities granted by the next level in
your character’s current class, he can instead gain the 1stlevel
abilities of a new class, adding all of those abilities
to his existing ones. This is known as “multiclassing.”
The rules state that multiclassing is done by taking levels in a new class. Cleric is only one class regardless of deity or domains. Just as sorcerer and wizard regardless of bloodline or school.
Or fighter regardless of bonus feats.You would not allow a 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter either, would you?
The rules support the concept of clerics without deities, which follow ideals in stead. The same rules work well with pantheistic / polytheistic clerics.
Then we'll get a Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 with a swarm of apes or lions or even chickens.
Then we'll get a Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 /Druid 1 with a swarm of apes or lions or even chickens.
When did chickens make it to the druid's animal companion list? :D
The not sharing deity rule is something from monotheism and a modern view on religion.
In my campaign I actually encourage all characters (incl. clerics) to pay respect to all deaities when the circumastances are appropiate. I.e. Even a cleric will pray to Gozreh when boarding a ship or to Gorum before a great battle.
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In my campaign I actually encourage all characters (incl. clerics) to pay respect to all deaities when the circumastances are appropiate. I.e. Even a cleric will pray to Gozreh when boarding a ship or to Gorum before a great battle.
I can see paladins preferring to pray to Iomedae (who is also a goddess of war, but in an orderly and righteous way) rather than Gorum (who is more on the blood-drenched frenzying side).
I once played a Pantheon cleric who clearly told another PC that he would NOT cure any damage, curse ... entailed by desecrating an evil Goddess' altar, even though she was one of our party's archenemies. Gods should be given the proper respect.
I can see paladins preferring to pray to Iomedae (who is also a goddess of war, but in an orderly and righteous way) rather than Gorum (who is more on the blood-drenched frenzying side).I once played a Pantheon cleric who clearly told another PC that he would NOT cure any damage, curse ... entailed by desecrating an evil Goddess' altar, even though she was one of our party's archenemies. Gods should be given the proper respect.
+1
I could see "multi-classing" with a single class, if it was done for roleplaying reasons, and you wanted to nerf your character a bit.
In fact, there's even a bit of a hint of this in the core rulebook when talking about ex-clerics:
A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by her god ... cannot thereafter gain levels as a cleric of that god
But, you can still take cleric levels, apparently.
For example,
"I hate puppies, so I'll be a CE cleric of Rovagug".
One level later ...
"No wait, I love puppies! I'll become a LG cleric of Erastil and renounce my puppy-hating past."
Now you are a Cleric of Rovagug 1/Cleric of Erastil 1 at 2nd level, but you get none of the divine benefits for following Rovagug, and I wouldn't let the levels stack (you need to relearn all of the fundamentals about the new religion). That would make more sense to me than a straight alignment/deity change and becoming a Cleric of Erastil 2 only.
It might make for a fun character to roleplay, albeit less effective than a typical 2nd level Cleric.
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I would never allow this, gods do not share. You are devoted to your god, not him and that guy over there.
With that said I would allow a cleric to worship a pathaion, or maybe husband/wife or brother/sister combos if it fit
So you can worship all the gods, but you can't pick two?
I'd allow a cleric to worship two like minded gods, but I wouldn't allow a multiclassed cleric/cleric, you'd just be cleric with 1 domain from each diety.
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The rules state that multiclassing is done by taking levels in a new class. Cleric is only one class regardless of deity or domains. Just as sorcerer and wizard regardless of bloodline or school. Or fighter regardless of bonus feats.
You would not allow a 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter/ 1st level fighter either, would you?
The rules support the concept of clerics without deities, which follow ideals in stead. The same rules work well with pantheistic / polytheistic clerics.
This. +1.
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I would never allow this, gods do not share. You are devoted to your god, not him and that guy over there.
With that said I would allow a cleric to worship a pathaion, or maybe husband/wife or brother/sister combos if it fit
So you can worship all the gods, but you can't pick two?
I'd allow a cleric to worship two like minded gods, but I wouldn't allow a multiclassed cleric/cleric, you'd just be cleric with 1 domain from each diety.
That is a good way to run that scenario.
Would it be possible for a cleric to "Multi-Class" as a cleric of another deity? I'm thinking of a cleric who worships two gods of the same pantheon equally.
Most deities would want 100% of your attention and devotion, not 50%.
EDIT: The deities that are cool with only 50% of your devotion probably aren't worth worshiping.
This question was addressed way back when there still were printed magazines. The answer was a very short "you can´t multiclass with the same class". Period. As others have written, I would stick with that.
You could worship IMO
- one god
- a pantheon
- a philosophy
- several gods with similar portfolios (this one might be a DM call)
You could change between gods or other elements of this list. It would be easy to change from one god to the pantheon the god belongs to, and vice versa. If you change between different "beliefs", this could be much more difficult - if the beliefs are neutral to each other, there might be some penalty until the convert has proven his worth. If they are hostile, the game is wide open, from cutting off spells to attacks from believers claiming the convert to be not honest, cheating or even a heretic.
Stefan
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I'd allow a cleric to worship two like minded gods, but I wouldn't allow a multiclassed cleric/cleric, you'd just be cleric with 1 domain from each diety.
Makes sense. There was a third-party product I don't recall the name of that had pantheist priests limited to one Domain from their pantheon of dieties, but able to choose on a daily basis to focus their prayers towards a different diety, essentially changing their one Domain on a daily basis when they prepared spells.
Gods & Magic p 47 suggests that worshippers of the Dwarven gods do something similar, which would allow a dwarven cleric of Torag, Abadar, Irori, Angradd, Bolka, Dranngvit, Droskar, Folgrit, Grundinnar, Kols, Magrim or Trudd to access any of a plethora of Domains, but only one at a time. (artifice, charm, community, darkness, earth, evil, fire, good, healing, knowledge, law, protection, repose, rune, nobility, strength, travel, trickery or war)
Similarly, G&M p 48 mentions pantheist elven Clerics, able to pick two domains from Calistria, Desna, Nethys, Findeladlara, Ketephys or Yuelral's domains. (air, animal, artifice, chaos, charm, community, creation, destruction, good, knowledge, liberation, luck, magic, plant, protection, rune, travel, trickery or weather)