How do these creatures break down on the race/class line? I have a PC in one game that is a lizardfolk barbarian and I'd like to convert him over.
They look like run of the mill 2 HD humanoids.
Abilities:
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int
Saves:
Good Fort, Poor Ref, Poor Will
Skills ??? This entry doesn't quite make sense.
2+Int (Class: Acrobatics, Swim)
Special:
Natural Armor +5
Acrobatics +4
Hold Breath
Claw, claw, bite
How do these creatures break down on the race/class line? I have a PC in one game that is a lizardfolk barbarian and I'd like to convert him over.
They look like run of the mill 2 HD humanoids.
Abilities:
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 IntSaves:
Good Fort, Poor Ref, Poor WillSkills ??? This entry doesn't quite make sense.
2+Int (Class: Acrobatics, Swim)Special:
Natural Armor +5
Acrobatics +4
Hold Breath
Claw, claw, bite
What I did in my game (I run a monster campaign) was just drop the racial hit dice and add a +1 CR (that goes away per the rules on page 313). So, a Lizardfolk has to start as a 2nd level character with one class level. Between 3rd and 4th levels the +1 CR goes away and by 4th level they have 4 hit dice. The Natural Armor is the only unbalancing thing they have, honestly, and by 4th or 5th level that +5 ac isn't really worth a character level anymore.
I treat racial hit dice as 'commoner' levels for the race. So, a monster with class levels uses those in place of racial hit dice. Seems to work fine so far.
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What I did in my game (I run a monster campaign) was just drop the racial hit dice and add a +1 CR (that goes away per the rules on page 313). So, a Lizardfolk has to start as a 2nd level character with one class level. Between 3rd and 4th levels the +1 CR goes away and by 4th level they have 4 hit dice. The Natural Armor is the only unbalancing thing they have, honestly, and by 4th or 5th level that +5 ac isn't really worth a character level anymore.
Sensible.
I'd be tempted to drop the racial HD (ditto for Gnolls), and have the natural armor bonus be level dependent, like the flight ability of a Raptoran. At 1st level, the Lizardfolk has a +1 natural armor, with the armor increasing by +1 / level aquired until it reaches it's full +5 value at 5th level.
(Frankly, I'm not even sure why scaly creatures in D&D get such huge natural armor bonuses. Has no one on the design team ever owned a lizard or boa, and learned how careful you have to be not to damage them? A scaly humanoid shouldn't have skin tougher than medium crocodile hide, without *looking* like crocodile hide. I'd be cozy with dropping 'common' Lizardfolk, Sahuagin and Troglodytes to +2 NA and just saying that the freaks with NA +5 took special feats or have +2 NA and strapped on a suit of Hide Armor or something.)
Sensible.I'd be tempted to drop the racial HD (ditto for Gnolls), and have the natural armor bonus be level dependent, like the flight ability of a Raptoran. At 1st level, the Lizardfolk has a +1 natural armor, with the armor increasing by +1 / level aquired until it reaches it's full +5 value at 5th level.
Yeah, I've decided to treat all racial hit dice as 'commoner' levels for that race. It seems to make the most sense. Then I can just adjust the CR down to a level that makes sense for the bonuses they get.
(Frankly, I'm not even sure why scaly creatures in D&D get such huge natural armor bonuses. Has no one on the design team ever owned a lizard or boa, and learned how careful you have to be not to damage them? A scaly humanoid shouldn't have skin tougher than medium crocodile hide, without *looking* like crocodile hide. I'd be cozy with dropping 'common' Lizardfolk, Sahuagin and Troglodytes to +2 NA and just saying that the freaks with NA +5 took special feats or have +2 NA and strapped on a suit of Hide Armor or something.)
LOL,
I do admit, the new lizardfolk picture looks a lot more like an anthromorphic Iguana than the old WoTC pictures. Hard to imagine them with +5. The old WoTC pics looked more like a croc that had been given longer legs and no improvement in his disposition. :) Those I had no problem with having +5. The new ones do have very nicely detailed scales though, so I'm going to put it down to them having harder deposits in the scales, and subdermal calcification in their skin. ;)
I think historically lizardfolk had a bit more of 'Creature from the Black Lagoon' and a little less 'my iguana is missing?!'
sigurd
Monsters have natural armor so that they have a better AC without providing loot to the PC's.
It has alot less to do with "gee that thing has thick skin" and alot more to do with "how do we give it a decent AC without hiking up the PC treasure table?"
-S
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Monsters have natural armor so that they have a better AC without providing loot to the PC's.
Sensible in some cases, but I usually outfit trash mobs like this with hide or leather, which is worth less in gp than it weighs in lbs. :)
Before Handy Haversacks, it's not worth toting around. After Handy Haversacks, the party rarely can be bothered to pick up the hide armor they will be lucky to offload for 7 gp.
Aye but hide and leather are less AC than +5 natural armor..
You can easily give a monster nearly any natural AC without fear the PC's can somehow scrape it off and use it. Natural Armor doesn't translate into big armor bonuses in the PC's who skin the beastie.
You can easily give a monster decent natural attacks and decent natural armor without providing the PC's hardly any loot.
That way you can have 1/3 CR (or whatever) critters en masse without breaking the bank.
-S
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Aye but hide and leather are less AC than +5 natural armor.
Sorry, I was talking about the stuff said upthread, about giving a lizardfolk +2 natural armor (making them more suitable for LA+0 PCs) and having the NPC lizardfolk wear Hide armor to make up the difference and have the same encounter AC. It was something mentioned earlier that I didn't realize you weren't around for.
Sorry Set :) You quoted me so i assumed you were replying to my post specifically.
Depending on the availability of oddly shaped armors in the campaign you might consider keeping the +5 Nat AC for the guy. That or let it "grow on him" abit through a couple of levels.
Its one thing to find/make a suitable lizard man set of armor at low levels but once magic armors get involved it could become rather tricky to find magic stuff with holes in the proper places.
*this, assuming the DM doesn't simply allow magic armor to "fit" the wearer and such*
I looked for language specific to that in the PRD but couldn't find any.. but if its there somewhere please feel free to correct me.
-S
I see your point in terms of challenge.
Perhaps there is a terribly painful process they go through on becoming a warrior. Keep two castes. For lower challenges add a servant class with lower nat ac.
S