Originally posted in the AoW thread but only got a single response so I'll try here.
TFoE has three Clerics and as I'm running with PF rules I have a problem with all three unleashing negative energy on the party and if coupled with selective channel then we could be looking at 7d6 damage every round which is a bit OTT. Remember the clerics are on a balcony and not easily reached. Even as written without the selective channel it still doesn't look good. I have dry run it a few times but each time the channeling is a major part in stuffing the party.
Has anyone else come across this situation and if so how did you handle it to make it softer on the PCs.
It seems that multiple clerics now can really do damage to a lot of critters in a large area and upgrading old modules causes a problem if the expected party level isn't scaled also.
maybe drop the level or drop the cleric cha down a bit.
have you covered the Deathward spell?
It makes the recipients immune to negative channeling.
maybe give the party one or two scrolls, or maybe even a wand.
leave up to them to figure out how it works seeing as its changed considerably from 3.5.
have you covered the Deathward spell?
It makes the recipients immune to negative channeling.
maybe give the party one or two scrolls, or maybe even a wand.
leave up to them to figure out how it works seeing as its changed considerably from 3.5.
The scenario is for 3rd levels and giving out scrolls of 4th level spells is something I'm not comfortable with. If I gave out a wand they would probably just sell it!
Thanks for the imput though.
3rd level?
ok then, I know what you mean about channeling it can definatly be very intimidating and damage dealing, I am currently in a campaign Rise of the Runelords and have encountered a low level evil cleric with ALOT of melee fodder.
I seemed like we would all die, as it would burst every round (however it was a learning experience for us and the DM, as there were more than 3 of its lackeys thus he was hurting them too.)
and the second was against a high level cleric who was pumping out 3-4D6 a round maxing out a roll the 1st round.
6D6 would be ridiculous, maybe a little overkill, some suggestions would be to take one away, or concentrate him on something else, maybe buff spells, combat or even make him neutral so he can positive heal the other two.
or you could buff your group with CON spells, so they have the hitpoints to deal with the damage and don't go under as their CONS would be considerably higher.
I would suggest Scrolls of Aid(for Temp HP) and Bears endurance
And my third suggestion is to supply a higher level NPC cleric to counter the negative energy with positive energy heals, it would be interesting to see how it would work in the initiative though...
Originally posted in the AoW thread but only got a single response so I'll try here.
TFoE has three Clerics and as I'm running with PF rules I have a problem with all three unleashing negative energy on the party and if coupled with selective channel then we could be looking at 7d6 damage every round which is a bit OTT. Remember the clerics are on a balcony and not easily reached. Even as written without the selective channel it still doesn't look good. I have dry run it a few times but each time the channeling is a major part in stuffing the party.
Has anyone else come across this situation and if so how did you handle it to make it softer on the PCs.
It seems that multiple clerics now can really do damage to a lot of critters in a large area and upgrading old modules causes a problem if the expected party level isn't scaled also.
What is the environment. It's a 30 ft burst. If the clerics are on a balcony how high is it, how likely are they to get the PC's in the area. Allowing PC's to buy specific scrolls instead of any 4th level spell is an ok option if you want them to have access to deathward but not black tentacles :) perhaps let them purchase 1-2 to limit who's getting blasted. What other useful things can evil clerics do besides channel? Will saves for half make very low damage on channel output.
And my third suggestion is to supply a higher level NPC cleric to counter the negative energy with positive energy heals, it would be interesting to see how it would work in the initiative though...
If the good cleric wins initiative, he waits and goes at the same time as the evil cleric. If the evil cleric wins initiative, he can try to kill the party first.
Either way, the characters would get confused real quick.
"Ouch!"
"Oooo tingly"
"Ouch!"
"More tingly!"
"Blasted clerics!
What is the environment. It's a 30 ft burst. If the clerics are on a balcony how high is it, how likely are they to get the PC's in the area. Allowing PC's to buy specific scrolls instead of any 4th level spell is an ok option if you want them to have access to deathward but not black tentacles :) perhaps let them purchase 1-2 to limit who's getting blasted. What other useful things can evil clerics do besides channel? Will saves for half make very low damage on channel output.Originally posted in the AoW thread but only got a single response so I'll try here.
TFoE has three Clerics and as I'm running with PF rules I have a problem with all three unleashing negative energy on the party and if coupled with selective channel then we could be looking at 7d6 damage every round which is a bit OTT. Remember the clerics are on a balcony and not easily reached. Even as written without the selective channel it still doesn't look good. I have dry run it a few times but each time the channeling is a major part in stuffing the party.
Has anyone else come across this situation and if so how did you handle it to make it softer on the PCs.
It seems that multiple clerics now can really do damage to a lot of critters in a large area and upgrading old modules causes a problem if the expected party level isn't scaled also.
Its a 10' high balcony. I'm the DM so I'm trying to be kind! TFoE was written with 3.5 and the multiple clerics wouldn't have been a problem then,
Think of replacing 2 of the cleric with adepts or another class, warriors or something.
Its a 10' high balcony. I'm the DM so I'm trying to be kind! TFoE was written with 3.5 and the multiple clerics wouldn't have been a problem then,What is the environment. It's a 30 ft burst. If the clerics are on a balcony how high is it, how likely are they to get the PC's in the area. Allowing PC's to buy specific scrolls instead of any 4th level spell is an ok option if you want them to have access to deathward but not black tentacles :) perhaps let them purchase 1-2 to limit who's getting blasted. What other useful things can evil clerics do besides channel? Will saves for half make very low damage on channel output.Originally posted in the AoW thread but only got a single response so I'll try here.
TFoE has three Clerics and as I'm running with PF rules I have a problem with all three unleashing negative energy on the party and if coupled with selective channel then we could be looking at 7d6 damage every round which is a bit OTT. Remember the clerics are on a balcony and not easily reached. Even as written without the selective channel it still doesn't look good. I have dry run it a few times but each time the channeling is a major part in stuffing the party.
Has anyone else come across this situation and if so how did you handle it to make it softer on the PCs.
It seems that multiple clerics now can really do damage to a lot of critters in a large area and upgrading old modules causes a problem if the expected party level isn't scaled also.
How much space is there to move around? If they're 10 feet up that shortens the widness of their 30 ft burst by a third. Can the PC's stay away and use range on them? Can teh PC's NOVA and blow up the clerics? what is their capability?
Think of replacing 2 of the cleric with adepts or another class, warriors or something.
Hmm...that is very possible...
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How much space is there to move around? If they're 10 feet up that shortens the widness of their 30 ft burst by a third. Can the PC's stay away and use range on them? Can teh PC's NOVA and blow up the clerics? what is their capability?
Third level party, just.
Already asked the question about the actual size of the burst and the general opinion was that it is a 30' cylinder. The balcony is 15-20' wide if my memory is right. Looks like the adept path may solve my problems though.
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How much space is there to move around? If they're 10 feet up that shortens the widness of their 30 ft burst by a third. Can the PC's stay away and use range on them? Can teh PC's NOVA and blow up the clerics? what is their capability?Third level party, just.
Already asked the question about the actual size of the burst and the general opinion was that it is a 30' cylinder. The balcony is 15-20' wide if my memory is right. Looks like the adept path may solve my problems though.
It's a burst not a cylindar
"Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type(living or undead) in a 30 ft radius centered on the cleric."
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I am not familiar with the specific module, however, I can think of a couple things.
1. Will save for half damage is going to be their friend. They get to make a separate save for each blast, so failing one won't mean death.
2. Don't give them the selective channeling feat.
3. What is their Cha? Selective channeling would still injure some of their friends unless their cha is 14+.
4. Assuming the party has a cleric, he might be able to mostly mitigate the damage. The pcs won't be trying to save against the healing. Just make sure the cleric stays back far enough to be out of the evil clerics burst and that they are out of his burst.
Thanks for everyones input in such a short time. I will be going with the adept route as this lightens the load for the underlings and only have the Big Bad as the full Cleric.
Once again thankyou.
How is this any different from having extremely fire resistant/AC buffed wizards tossing fireballs?
Level 3 party up against 3 level 7 clerics?? Or did I misunderstand something?
No it's combined 7D6 which most likely is two 3nd level cleric and 1 5th level cleric.
Level 3 party up against 3 level 7 clerics?? Or did I misunderstand something?No it's combined 7D6 which most likely is two 3nd level cleric and 1 5th level cleric.
which means it's 2d6 save for half, 2d6 save for half, 3d6 save for half, if you fail all 3 will saves it's 7d6. Channels don't tend to have that high of a save as it's charisma based and clerics tend to put wisdom higher than charisma.
Also, the type of area of the channeling energy is a burst.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners).
So as long as you can get close to the clerics and have something giving you total cover, they can't hit you with their burst. One possibility of avoiding the burst is with a tower shield. Since tower shields can provide total cover, you can move forward against the clerics and avoid getting hit by the channeled energy.
A combined 7d6 damage isnt that horrible. It would be similar to say multiple spell casters hucking AOE damaging spells.
Also are these living breathing clerics? (not familiar with the module) because when our cleric uses his channel (pos) energy, it heals him to,so without selective channeling wouldnt live evil clerics kill themselves using it?
Seems to me, and evil cleric at low level would save the channel negative energy as a suicide bomb (i.e. surrounded by a band of Pcs about todie with 1 hp,no way out,boom hit the negative energy button)
Anyway seems to me live npcs would end up killing themselves. Being able to use it doesnt make them immune to it with out something else like a power, or feat.
A combined 7d6 damage isnt that horrible. It would be similar to say multiple spell casters hucking AOE damaging spells.
Also are these living breathing clerics? (not familiar with the module) because when our cleric uses his channel (pos) energy, it heals him to,so without selective channeling wouldnt live evil clerics kill themselves using it?
Seems to me, and evil cleric at low level would save the channel negative energy as a suicide bomb (i.e. surrounded by a band of Pcs about todie with 1 hp,no way out,boom hit the negative energy button)
Anyway seems to me live npcs would end up killing themselves. Being able to use it doesnt make them immune to it with out something else like a power, or feat.
You can leave yourself out of the channel effect.
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7d6 combined channel is really bad at 3rd level. even with save for half. 24.5 avarave damage failed, 12.25 if successful. the average 3rd level character has between 15-30 hp. assuming they didn't pump thier CON through the stratosphere. you will probably kill any wizards, sorcerers and possibly rogues or bards. changing the 2 weaker clerics to adepts makes it too easy. removing selective channeling and replacing it with another feat may work. heres another idea. have the party conveniently aqcuire ranged weapons, maybe a bowyer at the local lodge offers to provide missle weapons to the party, but in exchange, they have to hunt for components before they get the weapons. to be ludicrous. have a chaotic good kobold archery ranger settle in the local area, he just happens to be a skilled bowyer and his name is kyle. maybe his animal companion is a hawk or falcon. this is just an idea. not actually forced upon anyone.
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If they're 10 feet up that shortens the widness of their 30 ft burst by a third. Can the PC's stay away and use range on them? Can teh PC's NOVA and blow up the clerics? what is their capability?
If they're ten feet up, and you envision the squares as cubes instead and you use the RAW rules for measuring diagonally, then it doesn't reduce it by a third.
The first 15' would be spent moving it diagonally two units toward the ground, and from there travels another 15'. Thus, it hits the ground-level PCs from 25' away.
I'd just take the Selective Channeling away and play them naturally from there. An evil cleric would know that his channel energy will harm his allies, and so he'd probably only use it if it was really needed.
Remind the players that they can retreat from that encounter. It is designed to be a deathtrap (by the dungeon denizens, and by the author). Any party that charges into that encounter and doesn't take advantage of the ability to retreat and maybe cover from the statue and the balcony is probably toast, even in 3.5. Also, why are the hypothetical low hp wizards and sorcerers charged up on these people. They should have access to ranged attack spells, right?
If they're 10 feet up that shortens the widness of their 30 ft burst by a third. Can the PC's stay away and use range on them? Can teh PC's NOVA and blow up the clerics? what is their capability?If they're ten feet up, and you envision the squares as cubes instead and you use the RAW rules for measuring diagonally, then it doesn't reduce it by a third.
The first 15' would be spent moving it diagonally two units toward the ground, and from there travels another 15'. Thus, it hits the ground-level PCs from 25' away.
I'd just take the Selective Channeling away and play them naturally from there. An evil cleric would know that his channel energy will harm his allies, and so he'd probably only use it if it was really needed.
If it's a 3.5 conversion they don't have selective channeling anyways. I agree that the diagonals work in the favor of the clerics in this scenario. 15 ft up would change the dynamics a lot. So will ranged attacks from the PC's and staying out of the blast or finding cover as others have suggested. Also Wizards should be fine because they have a decent will save and may be smart enough to realize that holy symbol is for an evil diety and stay away from the clerics.